Comments on: The Elastic View of Rules http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/11/10/the-elastic-view-of-rules/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Thribhu http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/11/10/the-elastic-view-of-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-287665 Thribhu Thu, 15 Dec 2011 00:48:53 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/?p=7772#comment-287665 <p>Not that I use stereotypes, but yeah, there is that mentality in our kind. To do whatever it takes to get money. Have you ever seen an Guju family in Best Buy on Black Friday? I don't know where it stems from but I know there is this universal understanding within our kind, or at least the first generation's parents. But does that mean we are different from other immigrants or, for that matter, minorities? Probably not. All sorts of examples pop up. Remember the 19th-century Italian and Irish immigrants? Their gangsterism needs no explicit analysis. And while we're talking about gangsterism - an ideology that is totally backed by the "do anything it takes" philosophy - look at African Americans and the Latinos. Yes, there are the strict Catholics (remember Senora Lopez: "your father is a hardworking man who get money the right way). But lets not be ignorant here. There is a larger population among immigrant communities to go down "the wrong path." And Rajaratnam is just an example of that. But he especially embodies the main difference between Desi Immigrants and other immigrants. Maybe we are a little more "posh." We are a little more educated so we commit white collar crime. Either way, I have to agree with Prof. Mehta. Desi Immigrants have this mentality. But the Prof. is looking to narrowly. This tendency can be expanded to just about any immigrant group. But the sad thing is, more often than not, this mentality stays with the second generation. If Mehta's analysis is correct. This is another difference between most immigrants and Desi Immigrants. Cross your fingers and hope this is true and this will rub off (not trickle hahaha) on other immigrants. So our nation will have less crime, especially in the financial sector so our economy doesn't come crashing again. But, wait, one last note to leave you thinking: Madoff and Goldman & Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein aren't immigrants. Hmmm....</p> Not that I use stereotypes, but yeah, there is that mentality in our kind. To do whatever it takes to get money. Have you ever seen an Guju family in Best Buy on Black Friday? I don’t know where it stems from but I know there is this universal understanding within our kind, or at least the first generation’s parents. But does that mean we are different from other immigrants or, for that matter, minorities? Probably not. All sorts of examples pop up. Remember the 19th-century Italian and Irish immigrants? Their gangsterism needs no explicit analysis. And while we’re talking about gangsterism – an ideology that is totally backed by the “do anything it takes” philosophy – look at African Americans and the Latinos. Yes, there are the strict Catholics (remember Senora Lopez: “your father is a hardworking man who get money the right way). But lets not be ignorant here. There is a larger population among immigrant communities to go down “the wrong path.” And Rajaratnam is just an example of that. But he especially embodies the main difference between Desi Immigrants and other immigrants. Maybe we are a little more “posh.” We are a little more educated so we commit white collar crime. Either way, I have to agree with Prof. Mehta. Desi Immigrants have this mentality. But the Prof. is looking to narrowly. This tendency can be expanded to just about any immigrant group. But the sad thing is, more often than not, this mentality stays with the second generation. If Mehta’s analysis is correct. This is another difference between most immigrants and Desi Immigrants. Cross your fingers and hope this is true and this will rub off (not trickle hahaha) on other immigrants. So our nation will have less crime, especially in the financial sector so our economy doesn’t come crashing again. But, wait, one last note to leave you thinking: Madoff and Goldman & Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein aren’t immigrants. Hmmm….

]]> By: Johnny Unitas http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/11/10/the-elastic-view-of-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-287427 Johnny Unitas Sat, 26 Nov 2011 09:15:40 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/?p=7772#comment-287427 <p>Pursuing a profession for money/status rather than passion is more common than you'd think even in America. Do you honestly think that all those accounting and business administration undergrads, law students, and MBAs really give a damn about what they're studying? The mentality of choosing a career for economic rewards alone is not uncommon. Engineering and science seem to be a little bit an exception and do attract genuinely passionate people, but most other careers pull people interested in how much they can cash out. Get out of Silicon Valley and you'll see this mentality all over the place. The lack of intellectual curiosity I see among college students and professionals, of all races, amazes me.</p> <p>I'm not sure why tech careers don't attract the money hungry as much compared to other fields, in America, but I'd guess the geek/nerd stigma has something to do with it. In desi culture, the average guy is what would be considered geeky/nerdy by our standards, so no stigma in geeky careers. Also, being a poorer country, Indians have to be more practical on what they choose to study.</p> Pursuing a profession for money/status rather than passion is more common than you’d think even in America. Do you honestly think that all those accounting and business administration undergrads, law students, and MBAs really give a damn about what they’re studying? The mentality of choosing a career for economic rewards alone is not uncommon. Engineering and science seem to be a little bit an exception and do attract genuinely passionate people, but most other careers pull people interested in how much they can cash out. Get out of Silicon Valley and you’ll see this mentality all over the place. The lack of intellectual curiosity I see among college students and professionals, of all races, amazes me.

I’m not sure why tech careers don’t attract the money hungry as much compared to other fields, in America, but I’d guess the geek/nerd stigma has something to do with it. In desi culture, the average guy is what would be considered geeky/nerdy by our standards, so no stigma in geeky careers. Also, being a poorer country, Indians have to be more practical on what they choose to study.

]]> By: The Game http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/11/10/the-elastic-view-of-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-287401 The Game Wed, 23 Nov 2011 11:37:20 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/?p=7772#comment-287401 <p>What rigor of american law or rules do you speak of. The same one which talks about the "great constitutional right of freedom of religion and creation of churches of all faiths in equal to all citizens ". But every time a mosque or temple is trying to be built by citizens of america in their communities, the bible thumping majority, great american suburbia and urban together -- come up with ridiculous parking problems, hazard issues to local life etc, but when a church wants to be constructed none of these issues come up.</p> <p>American law and rules are selectively applied, and christian bias through the american majority populace is evident across this wide land.</p> <p>Second generation or not, fair or not, american rules are just those of convenience, and this website can try to push pluralism. But until it breaks down the american seduction with the bible thumping blind evangilism, nothing american does will really matter in terms of making a change that is sustainable. Change starts at home.</p> <p>No wonder Narendra Modi is becoming popular across rural idaho and southern maine. Kid me not, I ran into some white 41 year old farmer and the guy was talking about the modi effect on idaho. DAMN!</p> <p>Jai ho, you ivtory tower miscreants</p> What rigor of american law or rules do you speak of. The same one which talks about the “great constitutional right of freedom of religion and creation of churches of all faiths in equal to all citizens “. But every time a mosque or temple is trying to be built by citizens of america in their communities, the bible thumping majority, great american suburbia and urban together — come up with ridiculous parking problems, hazard issues to local life etc, but when a church wants to be constructed none of these issues come up.

American law and rules are selectively applied, and christian bias through the american majority populace is evident across this wide land.

Second generation or not, fair or not, american rules are just those of convenience, and this website can try to push pluralism. But until it breaks down the american seduction with the bible thumping blind evangilism, nothing american does will really matter in terms of making a change that is sustainable. Change starts at home.

No wonder Narendra Modi is becoming popular across rural idaho and southern maine. Kid me not, I ran into some white 41 year old farmer and the guy was talking about the modi effect on idaho. DAMN!

Jai ho, you ivtory tower miscreants

]]> By: raj http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/11/10/the-elastic-view-of-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-287305 raj Fri, 18 Nov 2011 19:12:42 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/?p=7772#comment-287305 <p>@Ashish...good point.</p> <p>Sadly most desis will jump out of their pants to deny this...we can't take the shame of the world knowing how truly limited we are.</p> @Ashish…good point.

Sadly most desis will jump out of their pants to deny this…we can’t take the shame of the world knowing how truly limited we are.

]]> By: Anand Bhat http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/11/10/the-elastic-view-of-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-287279 Anand Bhat Thu, 17 Nov 2011 04:49:29 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/?p=7772#comment-287279 <p>Okay, I get the point: Preet Bharara is Indian. But everyone knows we discriminate against ourselves before others. I still have yet to see why someone who worked for an prominent OLD American firm that did the same things Raj Rajaratnam did and get prosecuted. The racism is in favoring the "white" companies while Rajaratnam started his own. Vikram Pandit isn't in jail because he works for Citgroup, and they own the Democrats.</p> <p>Why did the Sri Lankan get wiretapped and Goldman Sachs not? It may not be some straightforward racism but definitely an elitist atmosphere that favors the old guy over the new guys (who probably are immigrant and didn't donate enough to the two political parties). THAT is the point.</p> Okay, I get the point: Preet Bharara is Indian. But everyone knows we discriminate against ourselves before others. I still have yet to see why someone who worked for an prominent OLD American firm that did the same things Raj Rajaratnam did and get prosecuted. The racism is in favoring the “white” companies while Rajaratnam started his own. Vikram Pandit isn’t in jail because he works for Citgroup, and they own the Democrats.

Why did the Sri Lankan get wiretapped and Goldman Sachs not? It may not be some straightforward racism but definitely an elitist atmosphere that favors the old guy over the new guys (who probably are immigrant and didn’t donate enough to the two political parties). THAT is the point.

]]> By: jyotsana http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/11/10/the-elastic-view-of-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-287256 jyotsana Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:57:55 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/?p=7772#comment-287256 <p>Ashish, I wonder which Silicon Valley you work in. It's surely not the place that I know. I know too many Indians out there who are fabulously talented, run their own firms, who live very modest lives, despite making a pile of cash. In contrast there are any number of American-Americans who are very talented who instead choose to make multi-million $ bonuses on Wall St. It takes all sorts to make the world. .Can we please stop throwing Gunga Din as a term of abuse for desi watercarriers? Kipling's Gunga Din is a heroic character with an immense heart. The least you could do is read the poem,</p> <p><i>Din! Din! Din! You Lazarushian-leather Gunga Din! Tho' I've belted you an' flayed you, By the livin' Gawd that made you, You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!</i></p> Ashish, I wonder which Silicon Valley you work in. It’s surely not the place that I know. I know too many Indians out there who are fabulously talented, run their own firms, who live very modest lives, despite making a pile of cash. In contrast there are any number of American-Americans who are very talented who instead choose to make multi-million $ bonuses on Wall St. It takes all sorts to make the world. .Can we please stop throwing Gunga Din as a term of abuse for desi watercarriers? Kipling’s Gunga Din is a heroic character with an immense heart. The least you could do is read the poem,

Din! Din! Din! You Lazarushian-leather Gunga Din! Tho’ I’ve belted you an’ flayed you, By the livin’ Gawd that made you, You’re a better man than I am, Gunga Din!

]]> By: gompiepie http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/11/10/the-elastic-view-of-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-287241 gompiepie Sun, 13 Nov 2011 04:32:13 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/?p=7772#comment-287241 <p>It's not a rich problem. I don't think there are many gay black white-collar crooks (with the exception of One), some groups are certainly over-represented. Before you accuse me of Antisemitism or "reverse-racism", there's historical precedence worldwide not least referenced by this website.</p> It’s not a rich problem. I don’t think there are many gay black white-collar crooks (with the exception of One), some groups are certainly over-represented. Before you accuse me of Antisemitism or “reverse-racism”, there’s historical precedence worldwide not least referenced by this website.

]]> By: gompiepie http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/11/10/the-elastic-view-of-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-287240 gompiepie Sun, 13 Nov 2011 03:43:38 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/?p=7772#comment-287240 <p>You could not be more wrong, let me give an example to clarify. I've worked in Silicon valley and the THOUSANDS of Indians there have a burning desire to play with the latest technologies and make love to Java. Sometimes they tap into high culture like Three Idiots, but not on Thursdays because that's when they talk to parents and grandparents over career and marriage.</p> <p>I'm not being racist or stereotyping by saying all. Just most (exception of 5-15%), and it generalizes because Silicon Valley immigrant engineering is the epicenter of all Indian interests at all times on all blogs. You're right in that WE Indians, not you of course, need to be more passionate given our less analytic brains - evidenced by an inability to read or stick to the subject.</p> <p>After all it's what's in the heart that truly counts. And being related to many Indian doctors I know the organ.</p> You could not be more wrong, let me give an example to clarify. I’ve worked in Silicon valley and the THOUSANDS of Indians there have a burning desire to play with the latest technologies and make love to Java. Sometimes they tap into high culture like Three Idiots, but not on Thursdays because that’s when they talk to parents and grandparents over career and marriage.

I’m not being racist or stereotyping by saying all. Just most (exception of 5-15%), and it generalizes because Silicon Valley immigrant engineering is the epicenter of all Indian interests at all times on all blogs. You’re right in that WE Indians, not you of course, need to be more passionate given our less analytic brains – evidenced by an inability to read or stick to the subject.

After all it’s what’s in the heart that truly counts. And being related to many Indian doctors I know the organ.

]]> By: CS http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/11/10/the-elastic-view-of-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-287239 CS Sun, 13 Nov 2011 03:12:45 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/?p=7772#comment-287239 <p>Uhhh...no, You are wrong in assuming that. I am a Ph.D guy in a hard quant field, and I have over the years applied my skills to various industries from transportation, to logistics to retail and banking. You could charge me with lack of passion as I never viewed any one job as my true calling, but my true calling was to solve problems, and make a difference, and yes I did not care whether the company was making bombs or curing cancer. So you are just being presumptuous in assuming that.</p> Uhhh…no, You are wrong in assuming that. I am a Ph.D guy in a hard quant field, and I have over the years applied my skills to various industries from transportation, to logistics to retail and banking. You could charge me with lack of passion as I never viewed any one job as my true calling, but my true calling was to solve problems, and make a difference, and yes I did not care whether the company was making bombs or curing cancer. So you are just being presumptuous in assuming that.

]]> By: Ashish http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/11/10/the-elastic-view-of-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-287238 Ashish Sun, 13 Nov 2011 01:53:29 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/?p=7772#comment-287238 <p>Let me also add, in response to your last sentence: if white people are committing crimes for which they're being prosecuted, let's fix that. But the evidence against Rajaratnam (and for that matter Rajat Gupta) is OVERWHELMING. Much of it is public - don't take my word for it.</p> <p>Unless you want to say "let's just ignore all white collar crime," you do Indians a disservice by throwing around charges of racism. Yes, anti-brown/black racism still flourishes, but that's quite independent of whether we Indians are leading our lives in the best way we could.</p> Let me also add, in response to your last sentence: if white people are committing crimes for which they’re being prosecuted, let’s fix that. But the evidence against Rajaratnam (and for that matter Rajat Gupta) is OVERWHELMING. Much of it is public – don’t take my word for it.

Unless you want to say “let’s just ignore all white collar crime,” you do Indians a disservice by throwing around charges of racism. Yes, anti-brown/black racism still flourishes, but that’s quite independent of whether we Indians are leading our lives in the best way we could.

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