Comments on: Seeing Lal http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/07/19/this_weekend_de/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: taz http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/07/19/this_weekend_de/comment-page-1/#comment-285639 taz Thu, 21 Jul 2011 21:03:07 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6602#comment-285639 <p>Well, I'm kind of offended that you are a reader of this blog. But we can't control everything right? If you don't like it, you know where to step to. I've never understood why people who are so vociferous on the comment threads continue to read this site.</p> <p>As for as my choice of Prerna - and not "coaching" her on the bitchiness of the comment threads these days - it is what it is. People who read our site (and get interviewed by our site) know what they are getting themselves into by being profiled on our site. They don't HAVE to answer the questions if they don't want to - and many haven't. Despite what you may "read" in her tweets, I think she's handling it just fine - better than other people SM has profiled over the years.</p> <p>Sepia Mutiny is a group blog w/ over 20 bloggers on the site - and we all write what we want to. And I'll continue to write about people like Prerna or activists, politicos, music, issues, Muslims or anything really that I think need to be megaphoned into the Desi American community. You call it a puff piece, I call it highlighting issues important to and for the Desi American community. Deal.</p> Well, I’m kind of offended that you are a reader of this blog. But we can’t control everything right? If you don’t like it, you know where to step to. I’ve never understood why people who are so vociferous on the comment threads continue to read this site.

As for as my choice of Prerna – and not “coaching” her on the bitchiness of the comment threads these days – it is what it is. People who read our site (and get interviewed by our site) know what they are getting themselves into by being profiled on our site. They don’t HAVE to answer the questions if they don’t want to – and many haven’t. Despite what you may “read” in her tweets, I think she’s handling it just fine – better than other people SM has profiled over the years.

Sepia Mutiny is a group blog w/ over 20 bloggers on the site – and we all write what we want to. And I’ll continue to write about people like Prerna or activists, politicos, music, issues, Muslims or anything really that I think need to be megaphoned into the Desi American community. You call it a puff piece, I call it highlighting issues important to and for the Desi American community. Deal.

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By: Pravin Praveen http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/07/19/this_weekend_de/comment-page-1/#comment-285638 Pravin Praveen Thu, 21 Jul 2011 20:45:35 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6602#comment-285638 <p>Wow, a couple of really harsh anonymous comments here. I don't feel that to that extreme. Though to be blunt, I can't blame them. I think in the future, Taz should assess if the subject can take the open feedback one gets on a blog like this. It is clear that Prerna Lal cannot handle any kind of feedback. Her tweets with Taz are one of dismissiveness about our attitudes and ignorance and taz hasn't helped her out by patronizing her at our expense. Maybe these kind of puff pieces need to be on the uncommented RIGHTSIDE section of this blog so we don't have an opportunity to accidentally offend friends of the blogger. Looking at lal's blog, it is clear that she has a lot of emotional problems. Why Taz would want to expose her friend/acquaintance in such an emotional state to that scrutiny by linking that blog here without preparing her for what could arise, I do not know.</p> <p>FWIW, she does address the Canadian issue in some sfweekly article(if I remember correctly). The law school of a top Canadian university of her choice accepted her but then Canada denied her a visa because of fears she might overstay because of her lack of a permanent residence. Well , I guess US is not the big evil country some activists make it out to be. So that mystery is solved.</p> <p>She needs to distinguish the feedback she gets from liberals and moderates from the one she gets from rabid right wingers. She just whines about it in her tweets. Even now, I truly hope she gets a a legal visa because of so many of the points raised in this thread, not because she has a fundamental right to it. Hell, I will even sign a petition to show my support based on humanitarian grounds. But I won't have much sympathy if she continues to self destruct and messes up her case. She said she wants to be a tenured professor. I hope she won't become one of those my way or the highway tyrants who remain bitter in academia. She is still young. She is studying law.PArt of her job will be to convince the other side to agree to her line of reasoning. I don't see any evidence that she is emotionally ready to do that.</p> Wow, a couple of really harsh anonymous comments here. I don’t feel that to that extreme. Though to be blunt, I can’t blame them. I think in the future, Taz should assess if the subject can take the open feedback one gets on a blog like this. It is clear that Prerna Lal cannot handle any kind of feedback. Her tweets with Taz are one of dismissiveness about our attitudes and ignorance and taz hasn’t helped her out by patronizing her at our expense. Maybe these kind of puff pieces need to be on the uncommented RIGHTSIDE section of this blog so we don’t have an opportunity to accidentally offend friends of the blogger. Looking at lal’s blog, it is clear that she has a lot of emotional problems. Why Taz would want to expose her friend/acquaintance in such an emotional state to that scrutiny by linking that blog here without preparing her for what could arise, I do not know.

FWIW, she does address the Canadian issue in some sfweekly article(if I remember correctly). The law school of a top Canadian university of her choice accepted her but then Canada denied her a visa because of fears she might overstay because of her lack of a permanent residence. Well , I guess US is not the big evil country some activists make it out to be. So that mystery is solved.

She needs to distinguish the feedback she gets from liberals and moderates from the one she gets from rabid right wingers. She just whines about it in her tweets. Even now, I truly hope she gets a a legal visa because of so many of the points raised in this thread, not because she has a fundamental right to it. Hell, I will even sign a petition to show my support based on humanitarian grounds. But I won’t have much sympathy if she continues to self destruct and messes up her case. She said she wants to be a tenured professor. I hope she won’t become one of those my way or the highway tyrants who remain bitter in academia. She is still young. She is studying law.PArt of her job will be to convince the other side to agree to her line of reasoning. I don’t see any evidence that she is emotionally ready to do that.

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By: Sick http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/07/19/this_weekend_de/comment-page-1/#comment-285637 Sick Thu, 21 Jul 2011 20:07:21 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6602#comment-285637 <p>The comments are typical privileged desi crap. The fortunate kids of parents who came in as doctors and professors have no care for those who find themselves less fortunate. This is the same back in the desh, where 500 million Indians subsist on less than 2 dollars a day, and there are slums lining all the towering buildings, and while India's middle class booms, they are still hiring little kids are still sweeping their houses. Their betas drive off in fancy cars to schools, while their nanny's kid lives in a thatch house.</p> <p>This is no concept of charity in Indian culture. It's all about self.</p> <p>That's why there are comments like, "a legal immigrant, and the child of legal immigrants - and a law school graduate." Good for you, asshole. I hope misfortune hits you so you can learn some way to look beyond yourself and your lucky breaks.</p> <p>Prema Lal's case is a perfect example of how messed up the immigration system is. The fact that she is "illegal" is a technicality and fault of INS/USCIS, that drags on cases for decades, essentially leaving people in a no-man's land.</p> <p>Best of luck to Prema. My advice to Prema would be to get in touch with LBGT community for support as well as her senator.</p> The comments are typical privileged desi crap. The fortunate kids of parents who came in as doctors and professors have no care for those who find themselves less fortunate. This is the same back in the desh, where 500 million Indians subsist on less than 2 dollars a day, and there are slums lining all the towering buildings, and while India’s middle class booms, they are still hiring little kids are still sweeping their houses. Their betas drive off in fancy cars to schools, while their nanny’s kid lives in a thatch house.

This is no concept of charity in Indian culture. It’s all about self.

That’s why there are comments like, “a legal immigrant, and the child of legal immigrants – and a law school graduate.” Good for you, asshole. I hope misfortune hits you so you can learn some way to look beyond yourself and your lucky breaks.

Prema Lal’s case is a perfect example of how messed up the immigration system is. The fact that she is “illegal” is a technicality and fault of INS/USCIS, that drags on cases for decades, essentially leaving people in a no-man’s land.

Best of luck to Prema. My advice to Prema would be to get in touch with LBGT community for support as well as her senator.

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By: harry http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/07/19/this_weekend_de/comment-page-1/#comment-285635 harry Thu, 21 Jul 2011 18:48:13 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6602#comment-285635 <p>Agreed with the comment above mine. I'm brown, and a legal immigrant, and the child of legal immigrants - and a law school graduate to boot - and I have zero sympathy for her. Good riddance.</p> Agreed with the comment above mine. I’m brown, and a legal immigrant, and the child of legal immigrants – and a law school graduate to boot – and I have zero sympathy for her. Good riddance.

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By: unimpressed http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/07/19/this_weekend_de/comment-page-1/#comment-285634 unimpressed Thu, 21 Jul 2011 18:48:04 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6602#comment-285634 <p>what an entitled, whiny, interview. oh, you have to work full time and take out loans to go to law school? how on earth is that different than 50% of (citizen) law students? you couldn't afford to go to the colleges you got into? again, while that's unfortunate, it's by no means a problem only illegal immigrants have. and i know lots of people who didn't qualify for federal loans for graduate school. and you came here legally at 14, are a student as well, and can't manage to get a visa or extension? either you have a really bad immigration lawyer, or there's a lot more to your story that you're not telling us. either way, it's not some grand injustice on INS's part, nor is saying that at 21 you're legally an adult and not a dependent of your parents.</p> <p>and so much of her argument makes absolutely no sense--she doesn't identify as south asian but she isn't interested in being part of white gay activisim that isn't really seeking human rights for all, she's upset that she pays (sales) tax to the states and doesn't get federal money, she's angry she's getting deported but america hasn't proved its worth to her,she thinks its ridiculous for the INS to treat her as an adult at 21 but she's an advocate trying to change the world, she's "highly educated" but doesn't even seem to know the basics of our legal system and going to law school so she can be a novelist (btw, i don't think you can be undocumented and actually be admitted to the bar in any state), she's upset at the treatment she recieves for being undocumented but says immigrants shouldn't blame their parents for any part of their situation, and what on earth does "the millitary-industrial" complex have to do with citizenship status.</p> <p>i have a lot of sympathy for illegal immigrants, but absolutely none for this particular one. And i'm kind of offended that SM/taz thought that just because the readers are brown, we'd be sympathetic to this brat. I've never understood why most SM posters seem to assume that all browns are in favor of some sort of amnesty (after all, those of us who are here legally are here because our parents had to wait a long freakin time to come over, and had our family members have to wait 10+ years to come over as well, and we paid federal taxes) but assuming, on top of that, that this is a story or individual that deserves support, is really skewed.</p> what an entitled, whiny, interview. oh, you have to work full time and take out loans to go to law school? how on earth is that different than 50% of (citizen) law students? you couldn’t afford to go to the colleges you got into? again, while that’s unfortunate, it’s by no means a problem only illegal immigrants have. and i know lots of people who didn’t qualify for federal loans for graduate school. and you came here legally at 14, are a student as well, and can’t manage to get a visa or extension? either you have a really bad immigration lawyer, or there’s a lot more to your story that you’re not telling us. either way, it’s not some grand injustice on INS’s part, nor is saying that at 21 you’re legally an adult and not a dependent of your parents.

and so much of her argument makes absolutely no sense–she doesn’t identify as south asian but she isn’t interested in being part of white gay activisim that isn’t really seeking human rights for all, she’s upset that she pays (sales) tax to the states and doesn’t get federal money, she’s angry she’s getting deported but america hasn’t proved its worth to her,she thinks its ridiculous for the INS to treat her as an adult at 21 but she’s an advocate trying to change the world, she’s “highly educated” but doesn’t even seem to know the basics of our legal system and going to law school so she can be a novelist (btw, i don’t think you can be undocumented and actually be admitted to the bar in any state), she’s upset at the treatment she recieves for being undocumented but says immigrants shouldn’t blame their parents for any part of their situation, and what on earth does “the millitary-industrial” complex have to do with citizenship status.

i have a lot of sympathy for illegal immigrants, but absolutely none for this particular one. And i’m kind of offended that SM/taz thought that just because the readers are brown, we’d be sympathetic to this brat. I’ve never understood why most SM posters seem to assume that all browns are in favor of some sort of amnesty (after all, those of us who are here legally are here because our parents had to wait a long freakin time to come over, and had our family members have to wait 10+ years to come over as well, and we paid federal taxes) but assuming, on top of that, that this is a story or individual that deserves support, is really skewed.

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By: unimpressed http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/07/19/this_weekend_de/comment-page-1/#comment-285633 unimpressed Thu, 21 Jul 2011 18:43:35 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6602#comment-285633 <p>what an entitled, whiny, interview. oh, you have to work full time and take out loans to go to law school? how on earth is that different than 50% of (citizen) law students? you couldn't afford to go to the colleges you got into? again, while that's unfortunate, it's by no means a problem only illegal immigrants have. and i know lots of people who didn't qualify for federal loans for graduate school. and you came here legally at 14, are a student as well, and can't manage to get a visa or extension? either you have a really bad immigration lawyer, or there's a lot more to your story that you're not telling us. either way, it's not some grand injustice on INS's part, nor is saying that at 21 you're legally an adult and not a dependent of your parents.</p> <p>and so much of her argument makes absolutely no sense--she doesn't identify as south asian but she isn't interested in being part of white gay activisim that isn't really seeking human rights for all, she's upset that she pays (sales) tax to the states and doesn't get federal money, she's angry she's getting deported but america hasn't proved its worth to her,she thinks its ridiculous for the INS to treat her as an adult at 21 but she's an advocate trying to change the world, she's "highly educated" but doesn't even seem to know the basics of our legal system and going to law school so she can be a novelist (btw, i don't think you can be undocumented and actually be admitted to the bar in any state), she's upset at the treatment she recieves for being undocumented but says immigrants shouldn't blame their parents for any part of their situation, and what on earth does "the millitary-industrial" complex have to do with citizenship status.</p> <p>i have a lot of sympathy for illegal immigrants, but absolutely none for this particular one. And i'm kind of offended that SM/taz thought that just because the readers are brown, we'd be sympathetic to this brat. I've never understood why most SM posters seem to assume that all browns are in favor of some sort of amnesty (after all, those of us who are here legally are here because our parents had to wait a long freakin time to come over, and had our family members have to wait 10+ years to come over as well, and we paid federal taxes) but assuming, on top of that, that this is a story or individual that deserves support, is really skewed.</p> what an entitled, whiny, interview. oh, you have to work full time and take out loans to go to law school? how on earth is that different than 50% of (citizen) law students? you couldn’t afford to go to the colleges you got into? again, while that’s unfortunate, it’s by no means a problem only illegal immigrants have. and i know lots of people who didn’t qualify for federal loans for graduate school. and you came here legally at 14, are a student as well, and can’t manage to get a visa or extension? either you have a really bad immigration lawyer, or there’s a lot more to your story that you’re not telling us. either way, it’s not some grand injustice on INS’s part, nor is saying that at 21 you’re legally an adult and not a dependent of your parents.

and so much of her argument makes absolutely no sense–she doesn’t identify as south asian but she isn’t interested in being part of white gay activisim that isn’t really seeking human rights for all, she’s upset that she pays (sales) tax to the states and doesn’t get federal money, she’s angry she’s getting deported but america hasn’t proved its worth to her,she thinks its ridiculous for the INS to treat her as an adult at 21 but she’s an advocate trying to change the world, she’s “highly educated” but doesn’t even seem to know the basics of our legal system and going to law school so she can be a novelist (btw, i don’t think you can be undocumented and actually be admitted to the bar in any state), she’s upset at the treatment she recieves for being undocumented but says immigrants shouldn’t blame their parents for any part of their situation, and what on earth does “the millitary-industrial” complex have to do with citizenship status.

i have a lot of sympathy for illegal immigrants, but absolutely none for this particular one. And i’m kind of offended that SM/taz thought that just because the readers are brown, we’d be sympathetic to this brat. I’ve never understood why most SM posters seem to assume that all browns are in favor of some sort of amnesty (after all, those of us who are here legally are here because our parents had to wait a long freakin time to come over, and had our family members have to wait 10+ years to come over as well, and we paid federal taxes) but assuming, on top of that, that this is a story or individual that deserves support, is really skewed.

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By: Pravin Praveen http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/07/19/this_weekend_de/comment-page-1/#comment-285613 Pravin Praveen Wed, 20 Jul 2011 20:25:13 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6602#comment-285613 <blockquote> It's not enough to say mindlessly that the immigration system is messed up but we need to follow the ridiculous laws. </blockquote> <p>Actually I think Taz did her friend a disservice by highlighting her interview here. Looking at her blog, she provides better explanations in some of the older items of what happened. When people questioned her evasiveness on taxes, it was actually directd to her parents paying income taxes. Her parents did not strike it rich here. In fact, it is questionable if it was worth their trouble to move to the US. It is possible that they left because of anti_indian sentiment in Fiji though as I mentioned earlier, I thought that was limited to just the power structure in politics. Her father is a messed up dude who pretty much not only abandoned her emotionally after bringing her to the US, he also abused her because she would not change her ways. I would call that exceptional factors for the INS making an exception in her case even if some paperwork was forgotten by the family.</p> <p>The trouble is Lal cloaks this in a much broader immigrants rights framework and dismisses the immigration REFORM movement. I am going to guess that most of us who have commented negatively are probably onboard some kind of reform. However, reading the blog made me more sympathetic to Perna's case specifically, but less sympathetic to the family's eligibility to come here. The INS was actually generous to the rest of the family. It seems like the parents barely had the resources to lead a comfortable life. Short of political/human rights asylum, I don't see a reason why the US should be easy for anyone to get into just because they may get a few more financial opportunies here.</p> <p>There is nothing the INS can do to counsel undocumented families that sneak across the border. But they can counsel people coming over on temporary visas that they need to follow certain steps so that they don't mess up the kids lives. Maybe they can have a prove it or lose it type temporary visa where the parents have to obtain certain kind of jobs by a deadline or return to their country so the family is prepared to leave if necessary. (For all I know, they probably have something similar already).</p> <p>But I can't get onboard a blanket amnesty because you will just have more families who see downside taking a risk needlessly moving over the US to a life that may not be any better than the one they left. There has to be some kind of obstacle that makes someone assess their current lot in life as so bad that it is worth the risk to illegally immigrate.</p> It’s not enough to say mindlessly that the immigration system is messed up but we need to follow the ridiculous laws.

Actually I think Taz did her friend a disservice by highlighting her interview here. Looking at her blog, she provides better explanations in some of the older items of what happened. When people questioned her evasiveness on taxes, it was actually directd to her parents paying income taxes. Her parents did not strike it rich here. In fact, it is questionable if it was worth their trouble to move to the US. It is possible that they left because of anti_indian sentiment in Fiji though as I mentioned earlier, I thought that was limited to just the power structure in politics. Her father is a messed up dude who pretty much not only abandoned her emotionally after bringing her to the US, he also abused her because she would not change her ways. I would call that exceptional factors for the INS making an exception in her case even if some paperwork was forgotten by the family.

The trouble is Lal cloaks this in a much broader immigrants rights framework and dismisses the immigration REFORM movement. I am going to guess that most of us who have commented negatively are probably onboard some kind of reform. However, reading the blog made me more sympathetic to Perna’s case specifically, but less sympathetic to the family’s eligibility to come here. The INS was actually generous to the rest of the family. It seems like the parents barely had the resources to lead a comfortable life. Short of political/human rights asylum, I don’t see a reason why the US should be easy for anyone to get into just because they may get a few more financial opportunies here.

There is nothing the INS can do to counsel undocumented families that sneak across the border. But they can counsel people coming over on temporary visas that they need to follow certain steps so that they don’t mess up the kids lives. Maybe they can have a prove it or lose it type temporary visa where the parents have to obtain certain kind of jobs by a deadline or return to their country so the family is prepared to leave if necessary. (For all I know, they probably have something similar already).

But I can’t get onboard a blanket amnesty because you will just have more families who see downside taking a risk needlessly moving over the US to a life that may not be any better than the one they left. There has to be some kind of obstacle that makes someone assess their current lot in life as so bad that it is worth the risk to illegally immigrate.

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By: baingandabhartha http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/07/19/this_weekend_de/comment-page-1/#comment-285612 baingandabhartha Wed, 20 Jul 2011 20:18:21 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6602#comment-285612 <p>my brother also missed the age cutoff-he waited,finished his education in India, came via work visa-this gal's position is difficult-I agree. But, she comes across angry at everyone-white, desi, brown, non-gay. Everyone has contributed to her victimhood. She needs to get out of that mode. I do think that the arbitrary age cutoff is BS, but at some point, kids become adults-their parents are no longer responsible for them-they can figure life out on their own-including immigration legally vs illegally. If she came at 14, she was still legal-if she came after 21,she was a legal adult who should be able to navigate her own life and make those choices.</p> my brother also missed the age cutoff-he waited,finished his education in India, came via work visa-this gal’s position is difficult-I agree. But, she comes across angry at everyone-white, desi, brown, non-gay. Everyone has contributed to her victimhood. She needs to get out of that mode. I do think that the arbitrary age cutoff is BS, but at some point, kids become adults-their parents are no longer responsible for them-they can figure life out on their own-including immigration legally vs illegally. If she came at 14, she was still legal-if she came after 21,she was a legal adult who should be able to navigate her own life and make those choices.

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By: bwunderlick http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/07/19/this_weekend_de/comment-page-1/#comment-285610 bwunderlick Wed, 20 Jul 2011 20:01:54 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6602#comment-285610 <p>Seriously people? Lal's been her since she's 14, her family all have legal status, she's been/will continue to be educated here, and she has meaningful connections and relationships to many other Americans. Deporting her is a stupid and inhumane use of limited resources. It's not enough to say mindlessly that the immigration system is messed up but we need to follow the ridiculous laws. I'm tired of seeing this happen to people I care about, so I support Lal and others like her without reservations.</p> Seriously people? Lal’s been her since she’s 14, her family all have legal status, she’s been/will continue to be educated here, and she has meaningful connections and relationships to many other Americans. Deporting her is a stupid and inhumane use of limited resources. It’s not enough to say mindlessly that the immigration system is messed up but we need to follow the ridiculous laws. I’m tired of seeing this happen to people I care about, so I support Lal and others like her without reservations.

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By: Nish http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/07/19/this_weekend_de/comment-page-1/#comment-285608 Nish Wed, 20 Jul 2011 19:51:25 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6602#comment-285608 <p>If Razib wrote a book on brown Americans, I'd pre-order it on Amazon. I don't always agree with everything he says but he <em>can</em> write!</p> If Razib wrote a book on brown Americans, I’d pre-order it on Amazon. I don’t always agree with everything he says but he can write!

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