Comments on: Eating American: The Fat Cost of Fitting In? http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/05/15/eating_american/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Nandalal Nagalingam Rasia http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/05/15/eating_american/comment-page-1/#comment-284270 Nandalal Nagalingam Rasia Sat, 21 May 2011 14:45:47 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6546#comment-284270 <p>i can unequivocally say that a lacto-veggie diet is bad for most south-asians with regards to the diseases of civilization given how most people go about living it--despite the 'man boobs' mentioned as a downside, most would be better off structuring their diet around soy protein rather than the poor people foods (lentils, beans.). I was lacto-veg for 24 years, ended up a gym rat, and couldn't figure out how all that work resulted in higher and higher BF%. 3 years of eating every kind of animal protein available has shown me it's not just protein but finding out exactly how much sugar you can eat and maintain a healthy insulin response.</p> i can unequivocally say that a lacto-veggie diet is bad for most south-asians with regards to the diseases of civilization given how most people go about living it–despite the ‘man boobs’ mentioned as a downside, most would be better off structuring their diet around soy protein rather than the poor people foods (lentils, beans.). I was lacto-veg for 24 years, ended up a gym rat, and couldn’t figure out how all that work resulted in higher and higher BF%. 3 years of eating every kind of animal protein available has shown me it’s not just protein but finding out exactly how much sugar you can eat and maintain a healthy insulin response.

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By: Yoga Fire http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/05/15/eating_american/comment-page-2/#comment-284255 Yoga Fire Sat, 21 May 2011 03:24:47 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6546#comment-284255 <blockquote>as a doctor and a nutritionist i beg to thoroughly disagree. </blockquote> <p>All that schooling and nobody thought you how to capitalize properly? Frankly, I call shenanigans on your claim to authority and think your position that eating anything in moderation if you have a diverse diet is, somehow, not healthy is straight up farcical.</p> <p>And the notion that 6 samples that are chemically identical will somehow have a different impact on people based on the label you give them (canola oil vs. olive oil) is about as scientifically sound as homeopathy. I have no idea what kind of studies this thought experiment is even based on or what it even has to do with normal human diets (which are diverse.)</p> <p>For one thing, any studies analyzing diet or exercise have <i>serious</i> validity issues that mean you need to be careful making definitive claims about anything that comes out. Human bodies are diverse and complicated. The population curve is extremely wide and every single person reacts slightly differently to every single variable involved. That's a highly complex thing you're trying to model, which is part of the reason pharmaceutical trials are some of the most shoddy quantitative work any statistician will ever see. So remain skeptical about appealing to one or two clinical trials as the be-all-end-all of nutritional science. Especially when you're making counterintuitive claims. They still can't conclusively determine that exercise leads to weight-loss for God's sake.</p> as a doctor and a nutritionist i beg to thoroughly disagree.

All that schooling and nobody thought you how to capitalize properly? Frankly, I call shenanigans on your claim to authority and think your position that eating anything in moderation if you have a diverse diet is, somehow, not healthy is straight up farcical.

And the notion that 6 samples that are chemically identical will somehow have a different impact on people based on the label you give them (canola oil vs. olive oil) is about as scientifically sound as homeopathy. I have no idea what kind of studies this thought experiment is even based on or what it even has to do with normal human diets (which are diverse.)

For one thing, any studies analyzing diet or exercise have serious validity issues that mean you need to be careful making definitive claims about anything that comes out. Human bodies are diverse and complicated. The population curve is extremely wide and every single person reacts slightly differently to every single variable involved. That’s a highly complex thing you’re trying to model, which is part of the reason pharmaceutical trials are some of the most shoddy quantitative work any statistician will ever see. So remain skeptical about appealing to one or two clinical trials as the be-all-end-all of nutritional science. Especially when you’re making counterintuitive claims. They still can’t conclusively determine that exercise leads to weight-loss for God’s sake.

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By: ptz http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/05/15/eating_american/comment-page-2/#comment-284253 ptz Sat, 21 May 2011 00:29:19 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6546#comment-284253 <p>boston_mahesh, thank you, that was my exact point ie.</p> <p>nutritionally equivalent macronutrients != nutritionally equivalent micronutrients</p> <p>you can get 5 spoons of sugar from either a bottle of sugar or a bunch of carrots.</p> <p>to get it from the bottle, you put a spoon, take out the sugar and eat it. do this 5 times. it will take you 2 minutes.</p> <p>to get it from the carrots, you may have to eat more than 2 kilograms of carrots, which no human being can do in a single sitting or even a whole day.</p> <p>but both give you same 5 spoon sugar ie. nutritionally, they have same amount of carbs. but the latter has 1000 times more fiber, so it fills you up a lot faster.</p> <p>when people say crap like "you can get protein from vegetarian indian food, just eat soyabean.", they are commiting the same fallacy. to get the same amount of protein that 1lb lean chicken has, you'll have to eat say 2 kilograms of soyabean. all that estrogen will get you manboobs, not protein.</p> <p>density matters. that is why nutrition is so damn hard.</p> boston_mahesh, thank you, that was my exact point ie.

nutritionally equivalent macronutrients != nutritionally equivalent micronutrients

you can get 5 spoons of sugar from either a bottle of sugar or a bunch of carrots.

to get it from the bottle, you put a spoon, take out the sugar and eat it. do this 5 times. it will take you 2 minutes.

to get it from the carrots, you may have to eat more than 2 kilograms of carrots, which no human being can do in a single sitting or even a whole day.

but both give you same 5 spoon sugar ie. nutritionally, they have same amount of carbs. but the latter has 1000 times more fiber, so it fills you up a lot faster.

when people say crap like “you can get protein from vegetarian indian food, just eat soyabean.”, they are commiting the same fallacy. to get the same amount of protein that 1lb lean chicken has, you’ll have to eat say 2 kilograms of soyabean. all that estrogen will get you manboobs, not protein.

density matters. that is why nutrition is so damn hard.

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By: Alina M http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/05/15/eating_american/comment-page-1/#comment-284248 Alina M Fri, 20 May 2011 23:27:35 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6546#comment-284248 <p><b>Avoid all potatoes</b></p> <p>Sweet potatoes are pretty healthy (lots of fiber, potassium, vitamin C, carotenes). You should try making sweet potato fries (oven baked, not fried though) as an easy lunch; add a little cayenne pepper if they're too sweet for your taste and you want a little spice. It's a good alternative for starchy white potatoes which are less nutritious.</p> Avoid all potatoes

Sweet potatoes are pretty healthy (lots of fiber, potassium, vitamin C, carotenes). You should try making sweet potato fries (oven baked, not fried though) as an easy lunch; add a little cayenne pepper if they’re too sweet for your taste and you want a little spice. It’s a good alternative for starchy white potatoes which are less nutritious.

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By: boston_mahesh http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/05/15/eating_american/comment-page-1/#comment-284246 boston_mahesh Fri, 20 May 2011 22:18:41 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6546#comment-284246 <p><b>ptz: food is not just food. eg. you can easily concoct 6 samples of butter, margarine, ghee, canola oil, olive oil, sunflower oil such that each of the 6 gives exactly same nutritional result ie. same % of sat and unsat lipid profile. at that point they are nutritionally identical.</b></p> <p>Butter, margarine, ghee, canola oil, olive oil, and sunflower oil are identical in caloric density (9 calories/gram), and fat (100% fats), but they are NOT identical in terms of what portion is saturated fat (ghee and coconut oil have VERY high sat-fats), and which portion is unsat-fat.</p> <p>All of these fats <em>may</em> contain vitamins - I honestly am not sure - but they will ALL help you to absorb Vitamins A, D, E, and K. And maybe other macromolecules.</p> ptz: food is not just food. eg. you can easily concoct 6 samples of butter, margarine, ghee, canola oil, olive oil, sunflower oil such that each of the 6 gives exactly same nutritional result ie. same % of sat and unsat lipid profile. at that point they are nutritionally identical.

Butter, margarine, ghee, canola oil, olive oil, and sunflower oil are identical in caloric density (9 calories/gram), and fat (100% fats), but they are NOT identical in terms of what portion is saturated fat (ghee and coconut oil have VERY high sat-fats), and which portion is unsat-fat.

All of these fats may contain vitamins – I honestly am not sure – but they will ALL help you to absorb Vitamins A, D, E, and K. And maybe other macromolecules.

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By: ptz http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/05/15/eating_american/comment-page-1/#comment-284243 ptz Fri, 20 May 2011 20:16:38 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6546#comment-284243 <p>yoga fire writes "food is food. Unless it's toxic it's not inherently "good" or "bad" for you. Your body is a well adapted, flexible, and versatile machine that can function on a broad range of foods and undertake any number of activities as long as you don't stress it too much on any point. It's how much of it you're eating that causes health effects."</p> <p>as a doctor and a nutritionist i beg to thoroughly disagree. having false opinions is fine, but please don't go around stating it as a fact. every single line you've written above is incorrect, untrue, and proven to be completely false over the past decade.</p> <p>food is not just food. eg. you can easily concoct 6 samples of butter, margarine, ghee, canola oil, olive oil, sunflower oil such that each of the 6 gives exactly same nutritional result ie. same % of sat and unsat lipid profile. at that point they are nutritionally identical. suppose there was a nutritional computer. you give it the 6 samples concocted above. it will not be able to spot a difference. yet, you will find human body reacts very differently to those 6 samples.</p> <p>now if you repeat the experiment 75,000 times ( average human lifespan = 3 meals * 1 day * 365 days * 70 years ), some bodies will simply die in their 40s because they kept feeding on margarine. the longest living ones will be the olive oil guys.</p> <p>now repeat experiment with 6 fruit samples concocted in such a way so their nutritional content is identical - say apple, pineapple, watermelon, papaya, pears and oranges. once again, one group will emerge the winner ( pear ) and another will prove to be very bad ( watermelon )</p> <p>don't conflate objective nutritional data with your comfort level. yes, desis in india will eat white rice, sugar, ghee, whole milk, curd etc. until the end of time. that is just comfort level. that is not nutritionally sound. if somebody points that out, it doesn't mean they are feeling inferior or less-indian than you. you can feel 100% indian and yet know for a fact that indian food is 100% inferior. so what ? its tasty and those people like it, so let them eat it. just like many of us watch soppy bollywood dramas even though we know there's "superior" fare out there ( pbs, npr etc)</p> yoga fire writes “food is food. Unless it’s toxic it’s not inherently “good” or “bad” for you. Your body is a well adapted, flexible, and versatile machine that can function on a broad range of foods and undertake any number of activities as long as you don’t stress it too much on any point. It’s how much of it you’re eating that causes health effects.”

as a doctor and a nutritionist i beg to thoroughly disagree. having false opinions is fine, but please don’t go around stating it as a fact. every single line you’ve written above is incorrect, untrue, and proven to be completely false over the past decade.

food is not just food. eg. you can easily concoct 6 samples of butter, margarine, ghee, canola oil, olive oil, sunflower oil such that each of the 6 gives exactly same nutritional result ie. same % of sat and unsat lipid profile. at that point they are nutritionally identical. suppose there was a nutritional computer. you give it the 6 samples concocted above. it will not be able to spot a difference. yet, you will find human body reacts very differently to those 6 samples.

now if you repeat the experiment 75,000 times ( average human lifespan = 3 meals * 1 day * 365 days * 70 years ), some bodies will simply die in their 40s because they kept feeding on margarine. the longest living ones will be the olive oil guys.

now repeat experiment with 6 fruit samples concocted in such a way so their nutritional content is identical – say apple, pineapple, watermelon, papaya, pears and oranges. once again, one group will emerge the winner ( pear ) and another will prove to be very bad ( watermelon )

don’t conflate objective nutritional data with your comfort level. yes, desis in india will eat white rice, sugar, ghee, whole milk, curd etc. until the end of time. that is just comfort level. that is not nutritionally sound. if somebody points that out, it doesn’t mean they are feeling inferior or less-indian than you. you can feel 100% indian and yet know for a fact that indian food is 100% inferior. so what ? its tasty and those people like it, so let them eat it. just like many of us watch soppy bollywood dramas even though we know there’s “superior” fare out there ( pbs, npr etc)

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By: fajita http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/05/15/eating_american/comment-page-1/#comment-284239 fajita Fri, 20 May 2011 08:04:23 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6546#comment-284239 <p>I agree with everyone here! I think brown people should talk more often about diet.</p> <p>Moderation is the key to healthy living, regardless of what one eats. However, brown and other Asian women are predisposed to diabetes and PCOS and midlife obesity. Many South Asian vegetarian women I know post-32-ish are overweight with high body fat index. This is not my personal observation; this is something doctors are noticing all over. Women who have enough to eat are overweight. Sedentary life is a factor.</p> <p>But most are consuming too much processed carbs in the form of wheat, often bleached enriched flour. A breakfast of cereal or toast or bagel with fruit is HORRIBLE. It's essentially like putting sugar into your system. The body just converts it into fat, and the liver works harder, producing insulin, causing insulin resistance, which causes more fat deposits, low energy, and carb craving. Vicious cycle. Starting the day with a boiled egg with a piece of whole fruit and lots of water is much healthier. Eating some steamed fish, dal, and brown rice is even better. Grains of any kind, even the latest fad quinoa, are awful, especially for women over 35, when hormones are in transition to pre-menopause.</p> <p>Food in America is deceptive. I see people in restaurants eating chips and salsa while waiiting for main course. Just four pieces of chips is one small tortilla fried. People would never eat six or seven or ten tortillas. But if they come with salsa and look like quartered chips, they eat away. That's a all week's worth of carbs there in the appetizer!</p> <p>Basically, brown vegetarian women over 35 should eat dessert once a month, even then in a small portion. If they have a sweet tooth, eat whole fruit, but with some nuts to slow down digestion and avoid sugar spikes. They should avoid all processed break/roti. Avoid all potatoes. Eat small portions. Sustainable non-vegetarian is ideal, though.</p> I agree with everyone here! I think brown people should talk more often about diet.

Moderation is the key to healthy living, regardless of what one eats. However, brown and other Asian women are predisposed to diabetes and PCOS and midlife obesity. Many South Asian vegetarian women I know post-32-ish are overweight with high body fat index. This is not my personal observation; this is something doctors are noticing all over. Women who have enough to eat are overweight. Sedentary life is a factor.

But most are consuming too much processed carbs in the form of wheat, often bleached enriched flour. A breakfast of cereal or toast or bagel with fruit is HORRIBLE. It’s essentially like putting sugar into your system. The body just converts it into fat, and the liver works harder, producing insulin, causing insulin resistance, which causes more fat deposits, low energy, and carb craving. Vicious cycle. Starting the day with a boiled egg with a piece of whole fruit and lots of water is much healthier. Eating some steamed fish, dal, and brown rice is even better. Grains of any kind, even the latest fad quinoa, are awful, especially for women over 35, when hormones are in transition to pre-menopause.

Food in America is deceptive. I see people in restaurants eating chips and salsa while waiiting for main course. Just four pieces of chips is one small tortilla fried. People would never eat six or seven or ten tortillas. But if they come with salsa and look like quartered chips, they eat away. That’s a all week’s worth of carbs there in the appetizer!

Basically, brown vegetarian women over 35 should eat dessert once a month, even then in a small portion. If they have a sweet tooth, eat whole fruit, but with some nuts to slow down digestion and avoid sugar spikes. They should avoid all processed break/roti. Avoid all potatoes. Eat small portions. Sustainable non-vegetarian is ideal, though.

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By: HealthyDesi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/05/15/eating_american/comment-page-1/#comment-284238 HealthyDesi Fri, 20 May 2011 05:56:31 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6546#comment-284238 <p>Sister sb, we are a big tent! Both of our experiences with Paleo are valid and I feel affirmed by yours.</p> Sister sb, we are a big tent! Both of our experiences with Paleo are valid and I feel affirmed by yours.

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By: sb http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/05/15/eating_american/comment-page-1/#comment-284237 sb Fri, 20 May 2011 05:49:41 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6546#comment-284237 <p>HealthyDesi... you're definitely going a little farther than I would want to! I'm mostly interested in health, improved athletic performance, and vanity! I appreciate nature more now but I still prefer a night out in the city. :P</p> HealthyDesi… you’re definitely going a little farther than I would want to! I’m mostly interested in health, improved athletic performance, and vanity! I appreciate nature more now but I still prefer a night out in the city. :P

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By: sb http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/05/15/eating_american/comment-page-1/#comment-284236 sb Fri, 20 May 2011 05:43:15 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6546#comment-284236 <p>You make some very sensible points, Alina M. I guess the thing I'm just trying to get across is that people shouldn't automatically think that meat and fat are unhealthy, because many people (including myself) would do a lot better on diets that included those. But 'low-fat, no animal products' is the 'conventional wisdom,' so to speak, so our health ends up suffering following the same diet as those others. And then when we do reclaim our health, we get judged for it (not here, but by most people, especially Indians, in real life... that was really the point I wanted to make, that I find it difficult to sympathize with the people mentioning anti-vegetarianism, because my experience is almost the opposite! even though I eat lots of vegetables, haha).</p> You make some very sensible points, Alina M. I guess the thing I’m just trying to get across is that people shouldn’t automatically think that meat and fat are unhealthy, because many people (including myself) would do a lot better on diets that included those. But ‘low-fat, no animal products’ is the ‘conventional wisdom,’ so to speak, so our health ends up suffering following the same diet as those others. And then when we do reclaim our health, we get judged for it (not here, but by most people, especially Indians, in real life… that was really the point I wanted to make, that I find it difficult to sympathize with the people mentioning anti-vegetarianism, because my experience is almost the opposite! even though I eat lots of vegetables, haha).

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