Comments on: A call to all brown gene nerds! http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/04/10/a_call_to_all_b/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Razib Khan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/04/10/a_call_to_all_b/comment-page-1/#comment-282815 Razib Khan Fri, 15 Apr 2011 20:56:34 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6479#comment-282815 <p><i>. With genetic science, we can see that there was a population explosion in Europe around 10,000 years ago, and moreover, over 60% of their genes comes from the Middle East. I wonder if the same type of information can be found in India?</i></p> <p>yes. we can. need better population coverage. right now the indian gov. throws around a lot of red tape, though the techniques are so cheap and widespread that it is starting to not matter (1000 genomes will release a bunch of indian samples later this year to the general public).</p> . With genetic science, we can see that there was a population explosion in Europe around 10,000 years ago, and moreover, over 60% of their genes comes from the Middle East. I wonder if the same type of information can be found in India?

yes. we can. need better population coverage. right now the indian gov. throws around a lot of red tape, though the techniques are so cheap and widespread that it is starting to not matter (1000 genomes will release a bunch of indian samples later this year to the general public).

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By: boston_mahesh http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/04/10/a_call_to_all_b/comment-page-1/#comment-282788 boston_mahesh Thu, 14 Apr 2011 16:45:25 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6479#comment-282788 <p>Also, I wonder if these genetic tests can decipher when India experienced a great population explosion - if an explosion ever occurred. With genetic science, we can see that there was a population explosion in Europe around 10,000 years ago, and moreover, over 60% of their genes comes from the Middle East. I wonder if the same type of information can be found in India?</p> Also, I wonder if these genetic tests can decipher when India experienced a great population explosion – if an explosion ever occurred. With genetic science, we can see that there was a population explosion in Europe around 10,000 years ago, and moreover, over 60% of their genes comes from the Middle East. I wonder if the same type of information can be found in India?

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By: Razib Khan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/04/10/a_call_to_all_b/comment-page-1/#comment-282783 Razib Khan Thu, 14 Apr 2011 04:50:16 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6479#comment-282783 <p><i>For 23andme it looks like you cannot participate if you are in India now. That's also too bad because my fiance and our group of friends are mainly UPites, which it sounded like it was needed for the Harappa Project. How long will that project be going on?</i></p> <p>ain't the government of india awesome? also new york state and russia. the project will go on for a while until zack's wife gets sick of it probably :-) and yes, alas UPites are WAY underrepresented still....</p> For 23andme it looks like you cannot participate if you are in India now. That’s also too bad because my fiance and our group of friends are mainly UPites, which it sounded like it was needed for the Harappa Project. How long will that project be going on?

ain’t the government of india awesome? also new york state and russia. the project will go on for a while until zack’s wife gets sick of it probably :-) and yes, alas UPites are WAY underrepresented still….

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By: Lindsey http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/04/10/a_call_to_all_b/comment-page-1/#comment-282782 Lindsey Thu, 14 Apr 2011 04:08:19 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6479#comment-282782 <p>Thanks for the info Razib... I have been really enjoying all your posts lately, really interesting.</p> <p>For 23andme it looks like you cannot participate if you are in India now. That's also too bad because my fiance and our group of friends are mainly UPites, which it sounded like it was needed for the Harappa Project. How long will that project be going on?</p> Thanks for the info Razib… I have been really enjoying all your posts lately, really interesting.

For 23andme it looks like you cannot participate if you are in India now. That’s also too bad because my fiance and our group of friends are mainly UPites, which it sounded like it was needed for the Harappa Project. How long will that project be going on?

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By: Razib Khan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/04/10/a_call_to_all_b/comment-page-1/#comment-282781 Razib Khan Thu, 14 Apr 2011 04:02:24 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6479#comment-282781 <p><i> Keep us updated for when (if?) they have another sale.</i></p> <p>they have a few sales per year, so yeah, i assume they'll do it again. though you might want to subscribe to <a href="http://www.yourgeneticgenealogist.com/">your genetic genealogist</A> in your RSS. she always has the "inside scoop" on impending sales (leaked purposely from 23andme).</p> Keep us updated for when (if?) they have another sale.

they have a few sales per year, so yeah, i assume they’ll do it again. though you might want to subscribe to your genetic genealogist in your RSS. she always has the “inside scoop” on impending sales (leaked purposely from 23andme).

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By: Lindsey http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/04/10/a_call_to_all_b/comment-page-1/#comment-282780 Lindsey Thu, 14 Apr 2011 03:57:37 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6479#comment-282780 <p>Curses! I missed the sale. I really want to try this but can't afford the full price. Stink. Keep us updated for when (if?) they have another sale. I would love to do this. (and get my fiance to too!)</p> Curses! I missed the sale. I really want to try this but can’t afford the full price. Stink. Keep us updated for when (if?) they have another sale. I would love to do this. (and get my fiance to too!)

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By: Vanya http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/04/10/a_call_to_all_b/comment-page-1/#comment-282749 Vanya Tue, 12 Apr 2011 13:08:04 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6479#comment-282749 <p>Waaaaah! I tried ordering the service last night, but it's not offered in Maryland. Apparently MD (and possibly New York State too) requires a lab license for analyzing spit samples. Lame. X-(</p> <p>Thanks for the info though.</p> Waaaaah! I tried ordering the service last night, but it’s not offered in Maryland. Apparently MD (and possibly New York State too) requires a lab license for analyzing spit samples. Lame. X-(

Thanks for the info though.

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By: Shehan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/04/10/a_call_to_all_b/comment-page-1/#comment-282743 Shehan Mon, 11 Apr 2011 23:22:28 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6479#comment-282743 <p>Thanks for linking to this! I've been waiting for a good deal for a while!</p> Thanks for linking to this! I’ve been waiting for a good deal for a while!

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By: Razib Khan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/04/10/a_call_to_all_b/comment-page-1/#comment-282736 Razib Khan Mon, 11 Apr 2011 12:52:22 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6479#comment-282736 <p>re: europe having the least variation, he was constrained by the nature of his data. you are correct, the amt. of variation goes like so:</p> <p>african > south asian & mid east > europe & east asian > oceania & new world</p> <p><i> Has any research been done on their expansion into India and the concomitant spread of genes? It seems that he has a very Euro-centric scope to this research.</i></p> <p>http://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Welcome_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India.pdf</p> <p>i believe the "ANI" were middle eastern (anatolian) farmers. i am also coming to believe that "ASI" were bearers of an indigenous farming tradition of some sort.</p> <p>re: farmers & europe. i think cavalli-sforza was right, more right than he even knew, but for the wrong reason. there is a technical error in the way he interpreted PC maps. in short, they might be artifacts. but extraction of ancient DNA is giving us very strong hints that there was massive replacement of hunter-gatherers in europe by later peoples.</p> <p>btw, u might find my 10 questions for cavalli-sforza in 2006 of interest:</p> <p>http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2006/08/10-questions-for-luigi-luca-cavalli.php</p> re: europe having the least variation, he was constrained by the nature of his data. you are correct, the amt. of variation goes like so:

african > south asian & mid east > europe & east asian > oceania & new world

Has any research been done on their expansion into India and the concomitant spread of genes? It seems that he has a very Euro-centric scope to this research.

http://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Welcome_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India.pdf

i believe the “ANI” were middle eastern (anatolian) farmers. i am also coming to believe that “ASI” were bearers of an indigenous farming tradition of some sort.

re: farmers & europe. i think cavalli-sforza was right, more right than he even knew, but for the wrong reason. there is a technical error in the way he interpreted PC maps. in short, they might be artifacts. but extraction of ancient DNA is giving us very strong hints that there was massive replacement of hunter-gatherers in europe by later peoples.

btw, u might find my 10 questions for cavalli-sforza in 2006 of interest:

http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2006/08/10-questions-for-luigi-luca-cavalli.php

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By: boston_mahesh http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2011/04/10/a_call_to_all_b/comment-page-1/#comment-282733 boston_mahesh Mon, 11 Apr 2011 03:26:09 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6479#comment-282733 <p>To Razib:</p> <p>I've recently read Cavalli-Sforza's smaller compendium on population genetics, and his research on the Neolithic Farmer's expansion into Europe. It appears that he was able to show that the spread of farming coincided with the spread of genetic markers quite conclusively. However, I have my deep reservations about this. I personally think that his data fit a little <b>too well</b>. Moreover, I believe that he stated and tried to postulate as to why the European continent has the least amount of variation. I'd appreciate it if you could share with me your ideas/opinions.</p> <p>Q1: Dr. Sforza has researched about the Neolithic Farmer's expansion into Europe, but it's common sense that these Fertile Crescent Farmers must have spread out in a <b>radial</b> fashion, even coming into Indian Subcontinent around 9,000 years ago. Has any research been done on their expansion into India and the concomitant spread of genes? It seems that he has a very Euro-centric scope to this research.</p> <p>Q2: How could Europe have the least genetic variation, when in fact, Pre-Columbian American people should, in theory, have the least theory. They've been here for only ~15,000 years, whereas Homo Sapien Sapien lived in Europe for about ~40,000 years ago. One thing that I read from a tabloidal source is that the Great Plague may have had a homogenizing effect on Europe.</p> <p>Any and all explanations are appreciated.</p> To Razib:

I’ve recently read Cavalli-Sforza’s smaller compendium on population genetics, and his research on the Neolithic Farmer’s expansion into Europe. It appears that he was able to show that the spread of farming coincided with the spread of genetic markers quite conclusively. However, I have my deep reservations about this. I personally think that his data fit a little too well. Moreover, I believe that he stated and tried to postulate as to why the European continent has the least amount of variation. I’d appreciate it if you could share with me your ideas/opinions.

Q1: Dr. Sforza has researched about the Neolithic Farmer’s expansion into Europe, but it’s common sense that these Fertile Crescent Farmers must have spread out in a radial fashion, even coming into Indian Subcontinent around 9,000 years ago. Has any research been done on their expansion into India and the concomitant spread of genes? It seems that he has a very Euro-centric scope to this research.

Q2: How could Europe have the least genetic variation, when in fact, Pre-Columbian American people should, in theory, have the least theory. They’ve been here for only ~15,000 years, whereas Homo Sapien Sapien lived in Europe for about ~40,000 years ago. One thing that I read from a tabloidal source is that the Great Plague may have had a homogenizing effect on Europe.

Any and all explanations are appreciated.

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