The whole reason the anchor babies are born in America is because America is America, not because their moms think America should have no borders. A lot of immigrants to this country could say the same thing for over 100 years now. Careful what you wish for. I’m not a fan of nationalism either, but let’s be real. They are rethinking the whole idea of citizenship being conferred by birth without any other exigencies for the parents. It’s not a given in most countries. Change of circumstances causes change of assessment, that’s their take.. at least I think so since I don’t listen to him or other talking heads much.

Yeah, the “kind” of immigrants make a difference to most people. Makes a difference to us–who here would care much if Robertson were raggin’ on 10 million Russian Slavs crossing the Bering Straight and heading for California. Or ten million Brits. hmmm.

Should count the blessings, though. At least Spanish is easier to learn than Russian as a second language..

I think that’s a bit optimistic. Even if you have no job here you still have the possibility of getting a higher paying job. This will necessarily bring in more people than there are jobs to do. It’s the same thing you see with rural to urban migration. You end up with a lot of people flooding into cities because even with the high chance of not getting a job, the jobs you can get pay so well that the expected wage still exceeds what you make at home. See the Harris-Todaro model for more on why that is.

But aside from that, I just don’t know how sustainable this trishula of progressivism, multiculturalism, and democracy is over the long-term. Generally speaking, historically the countries that developed the most generous and universal welfare states also happened to be the countries that were the most socially and culturally homogenous. The Scandanavians got all their stuff together with almost no fuss at all in the 30s. The Brits and we Americans didn’t manage until well after WWII. In fact, we’re still not quite there. People are reluctant to vote in universalist benefits if they feel like a disproportionate amount of their money is going to go towards helping “other” people. Indians have a serious crab mentality where we always try to beggar our neighbors, but the same attitude can be seen universally on a less severe, less resource poor scale. I don’t think those kinds of benefits can last in too pluralistic a society unless you have a strong central government that’s going to implement them. It won’t happen democratically. One of those three prongs is going to have to give.

Well, if they are employed, w/, say, a fake Social Security #, they would have taxes withheld on their wages. That’s the main way. Also, keep in mind they would be paying sales taxes on purchases–quite high on cigarettes and alcohol.

Yoga Fire, I don’t advocate getting rid of borders. I’m only questioning their relevance to the matter of citizenship, which, world over, is becoming increasingly choice-based. I agree, the welfare state model is not fully compatible with open borders. However, the typical illegal immigrant is younger than 65, and comes to work to send money home, rather than enjoy a quiet retirement here. Most pay taxes too. Legal immigrants, with immigration markets, would still have to pay a price of entry. Or be employment worthy enough to contribute significantly to the economy. No free lunches here.

Universal healthcare is a great idea in principle, but in a country that generally subsidizes terrible food habits (with horrendous environmental impact), where buying local/organic/non-processed food is a hugely expensive option, I’m not sure I’m fully on board. But that said, I haven’t heard of too many people immigrating to the US for its superior healthcare system. Or its pensions program. I’m sure that would be a far more valid argument in some of the actual welfare states in Europe.

Context Vivek. Swati was talking about the irrelevancy of national borders and any kind of restriction on how we hand out citizenship.

Stop that. You’re using logic. That has no place on the interbutts.

Unintended consequences? What’re those? This is about FREEDOM and EQUALITY and RIGHTS, man! I want the freedom to be equal and right all the time!

Please do not mix Indian and American politics. These threads always go completely off the rails. Thanks.