Comments on: What better film for a dance sequence? http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/06/10/this_really_nee/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: metal mickey http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/06/10/this_really_nee/comment-page-2/#comment-274134 metal mickey Sat, 19 Jun 2010 14:38:10 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6208#comment-274134 <p>No comments on whether or not Hitler is popular in India, I don't know. Although Bal Thackeray's nephew was quoted in one of the Indian news magazines saying that 'Hitler had great organisational skills and discipline' or something like that.</p> <p>As to whether Hitler was a great leader however...<i>come on</i>. He completely and utterly destroyed Germany. Today displays of patriotism are still taboo in Germany. The Weimar Republic was a time of economic crisis and severe inflation but also of a cultural and artistic renaissance. Bertholt Brecht, Kurt Weill, Max Ernst, Kirchner, Otto Dix etc. were all famous artists from the Weimer Republic. When the NSDAP came into power, that was the end of that era. Let's not even talk about the gas chambers and all...no time in history has there occurred genocide such an industrial scale, so casually. And it seems from the rise of different facist/extreme right political parties in Europe as well as in India (!) that we have not learned anything from history. 'Wir haben es nicht gewusst' should not be used as an excuse anymore, especially in this age of information.</p> No comments on whether or not Hitler is popular in India, I don’t know. Although Bal Thackeray’s nephew was quoted in one of the Indian news magazines saying that ‘Hitler had great organisational skills and discipline’ or something like that.

As to whether Hitler was a great leader however…come on. He completely and utterly destroyed Germany. Today displays of patriotism are still taboo in Germany. The Weimar Republic was a time of economic crisis and severe inflation but also of a cultural and artistic renaissance. Bertholt Brecht, Kurt Weill, Max Ernst, Kirchner, Otto Dix etc. were all famous artists from the Weimer Republic. When the NSDAP came into power, that was the end of that era. Let’s not even talk about the gas chambers and all…no time in history has there occurred genocide such an industrial scale, so casually. And it seems from the rise of different facist/extreme right political parties in Europe as well as in India (!) that we have not learned anything from history. ‘Wir haben es nicht gewusst’ should not be used as an excuse anymore, especially in this age of information.

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By: Sameer http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/06/10/this_really_nee/comment-page-2/#comment-274077 Sameer Fri, 18 Jun 2010 04:50:05 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6208#comment-274077 <p>Anupam Kher drops out of movie</p> <p>""Considering the ill-will that the project is generating among my fans, I wish to withdraw from it as I respect their sentiments," Kher said in a statement released to Reuters. " http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/film-on-hitler-sparks-outrage-among-jews-in-india-1.296779</p> Anupam Kher drops out of movie

“”Considering the ill-will that the project is generating among my fans, I wish to withdraw from it as I respect their sentiments,” Kher said in a statement released to Reuters. ” http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/film-on-hitler-sparks-outrage-among-jews-in-india-1.296779

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By: Sameer http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/06/10/this_really_nee/comment-page-2/#comment-274073 Sameer Fri, 18 Jun 2010 04:29:11 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6208#comment-274073 <p>Is too much being made of it selling in India compared to other countries? In that article it said "<i> Crossword, an India-wide chain of book stores, has sold more than 25,000 copies since 2000"</i> , ten years ago, so that would be say 2,500 year. India has a population of 1 billion people.</p> <p>In the same article it said <i>"In the US, it sold 26,000 copies last year 2009. In 2005 it sold 100,000 copies in Turkey in just a few months. The Arabic imprint is popular in the Palestinian territories. "</i></p> <p>So in 2009 alone in the US with 300 million people it sold more copies than in all 10 years in India that has 1 billion people. In one year, 2005, in Turkey that has a population of ~72 million 100,000 copies were sold.</p> <p>India 1 billion people 2,500 sold/year America 300million people 26,000/year Turkey 72 million people 100,000/less than 1 year</p> <p>So why is India getting all this disproportionate attention and why aren't countries like US and Turkey being asked what is up with these countries?</p> Is too much being made of it selling in India compared to other countries? In that article it said “ Crossword, an India-wide chain of book stores, has sold more than 25,000 copies since 2000″ , ten years ago, so that would be say 2,500 year. India has a population of 1 billion people.

In the same article it said “In the US, it sold 26,000 copies last year 2009. In 2005 it sold 100,000 copies in Turkey in just a few months. The Arabic imprint is popular in the Palestinian territories. “

So in 2009 alone in the US with 300 million people it sold more copies than in all 10 years in India that has 1 billion people. In one year, 2005, in Turkey that has a population of ~72 million 100,000 copies were sold.

India 1 billion people 2,500 sold/year America 300million people 26,000/year Turkey 72 million people 100,000/less than 1 year

So why is India getting all this disproportionate attention and why aren’t countries like US and Turkey being asked what is up with these countries?

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By: Sameer http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/06/10/this_really_nee/comment-page-2/#comment-274072 Sameer Fri, 18 Jun 2010 04:17:37 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6208#comment-274072 <p>"Until two years ago, a typical Mumbai (Bombay) bookstore sold 40-50 copies of Mein Kampf a year. Now the figure is more like several hundred copies annually. " http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8660064.stm</p> <p>Why the uptick these last two years? This seems strange.</p> “Until two years ago, a typical Mumbai (Bombay) bookstore sold 40-50 copies of Mein Kampf a year. Now the figure is more like several hundred copies annually. ” http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8660064.stm

Why the uptick these last two years? This seems strange.

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By: Sameer http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/06/10/this_really_nee/comment-page-2/#comment-273779 Sameer Tue, 15 Jun 2010 00:43:28 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6208#comment-273779 <p>Well, what Christians being taught about Hitler is true for Minn Post http://www.minnpost.com/globalpost/2010/06/14/18865/whats_up_with_all_the_nazi_symbols_in_india They assume that it is only Hindus in India interested in Hitler, ignoring what the German Speigal found that it is also part of the Muslim world. see link in #80</p> <p>So interestingly European race psuedo science created the Aryan race theory, and the British teach it in India, Europeans love the idea of a master race, and see Indians at best the degraded Aryan. As shown in the Minn Post white europeans try to link Aryan/Nazism with Hinduism. Then afterwards pretend Hitler was not ever Christian but either Pagan or Hindu apparently,</p> <p>Yet when Hindus show how the Aryan race theory is debunked, that Arya is about being noble of character and that it never meant race, Hindus are attacked. A no win A Catch 22 of sorts. And this stupid racist theory from the racist Europeans of the 19th and 20th century is still being taught in India's schools.</p> <p>Feels like a set up of ridiculous proportions.</p> Well, what Christians being taught about Hitler is true for Minn Post http://www.minnpost.com/globalpost/2010/06/14/18865/whats_up_with_all_the_nazi_symbols_in_india They assume that it is only Hindus in India interested in Hitler, ignoring what the German Speigal found that it is also part of the Muslim world. see link in #80

So interestingly European race psuedo science created the Aryan race theory, and the British teach it in India, Europeans love the idea of a master race, and see Indians at best the degraded Aryan. As shown in the Minn Post white europeans try to link Aryan/Nazism with Hinduism. Then afterwards pretend Hitler was not ever Christian but either Pagan or Hindu apparently,

Yet when Hindus show how the Aryan race theory is debunked, that Arya is about being noble of character and that it never meant race, Hindus are attacked. A no win A Catch 22 of sorts. And this stupid racist theory from the racist Europeans of the 19th and 20th century is still being taught in India’s schools.

Feels like a set up of ridiculous proportions.

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By: Al beruni http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/06/10/this_really_nee/comment-page-2/#comment-273695 Al beruni Sun, 13 Jun 2010 03:46:42 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6208#comment-273695 <p><b>83 ds</b></p> <p>The notion that Hitler was actually a hindu/pagan and not really christian is part of a general opinion amongst extremist christians.</p> <p>I was once part of an discussion between a dalit indian who was a christian convert, american jews, hindus and so on. We discussed Ambedkar, appreciated his achievements, regretted the appalling types of caste-discrimination still visible in india. Somehow we turned to the question of european jews and their challenges in europe. Suddenly, the dalit christian said: well, the trials of european jews and the holocaust were appalling, but he understodd why it happened as Hitler was actually a hindu!</p> <p>There was a stunned silence for a while, subsequently several of us indicated firm disagreement with this view. But the fellow held to this opinion. It transpired he had been taught this at the religous entity that sponsored him and he felt that this opinion had firm foundations. Indeed, he offered to show us his sources and educate us about this matter!</p> 83 ds

The notion that Hitler was actually a hindu/pagan and not really christian is part of a general opinion amongst extremist christians.

I was once part of an discussion between a dalit indian who was a christian convert, american jews, hindus and so on. We discussed Ambedkar, appreciated his achievements, regretted the appalling types of caste-discrimination still visible in india. Somehow we turned to the question of european jews and their challenges in europe. Suddenly, the dalit christian said: well, the trials of european jews and the holocaust were appalling, but he understodd why it happened as Hitler was actually a hindu!

There was a stunned silence for a while, subsequently several of us indicated firm disagreement with this view. But the fellow held to this opinion. It transpired he had been taught this at the religous entity that sponsored him and he felt that this opinion had firm foundations. Indeed, he offered to show us his sources and educate us about this matter!

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By: alt http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/06/10/this_really_nee/comment-page-2/#comment-273692 alt Sun, 13 Jun 2010 02:13:06 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6208#comment-273692 <p>@ 83 · ds on June 12, 2010 7:30 PM · Direct link</p> <p>I do not mean to argue either, but I realize it may have come off that way. I did not posit that Nazis drew their inspiration from Hinduism. Rather, I mentioned that the Nazi elite--most prominently, Himmler--had an interest in and enthusiasm for various Hindu ideas--Jyotish astrology, the idea of a Brahmin elite, the Gita, etc. This is a well-known fact, not something one posits, and it stands out given that Germany was predominantly a Christian nation and surrounded by Christian nations. So it stands to reason that it may be of interest in India.</p> <p>The examples of Hitler's rhetoric provided do not substantiate the claim that Hitler subscribed to Christian dogma. On the contrary, such rhetoric is to be expect from a specious orator rallying the masses. His private commentary illustrates this. Some Nazis were Christians, to be sure, but most of the elite was not and Hitler was not. In fact, they planned to delegitimize the Christian church in Germany.</p> <p>See:</p> <p>"Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery....When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease. (p 118 & 119) -Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944, Farrar, Straus and Young</p> <p>Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)</p> <p>etc</p> @ 83 · ds on June 12, 2010 7:30 PM · Direct link

I do not mean to argue either, but I realize it may have come off that way. I did not posit that Nazis drew their inspiration from Hinduism. Rather, I mentioned that the Nazi elite–most prominently, Himmler–had an interest in and enthusiasm for various Hindu ideas–Jyotish astrology, the idea of a Brahmin elite, the Gita, etc. This is a well-known fact, not something one posits, and it stands out given that Germany was predominantly a Christian nation and surrounded by Christian nations. So it stands to reason that it may be of interest in India.

The examples of Hitler’s rhetoric provided do not substantiate the claim that Hitler subscribed to Christian dogma. On the contrary, such rhetoric is to be expect from a specious orator rallying the masses. His private commentary illustrates this. Some Nazis were Christians, to be sure, but most of the elite was not and Hitler was not. In fact, they planned to delegitimize the Christian church in Germany.

See:

“Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery….When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let’s be the only people who are immunised against the disease. (p 118 & 119) -Hitler’s Secret Conversations 1941-1944, Farrar, Straus and Young

Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)

etc

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By: ds http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/06/10/this_really_nee/comment-page-2/#comment-273691 ds Sun, 13 Jun 2010 01:30:16 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6208#comment-273691 <p>"My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice. And as a man I have the duty to see to it that human society does not suffer the same catastrophic collapse as did the civilization of the ancient world some two thousand years ago — a civilization which was driven to its ruin through this same Jewish people." (Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered at Munich, April 12, 1922; from Norman H. Baynes, ed., The Speeches of Adolf Hitler: April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1, New York: Oxford University Press, 1942, pp. 19-20.)</p> <p>"The greatness of Christianity did not lie in attempted negotiations for compromise with any similar philosophical opinions in the ancient world, but in its inexorable fanaticism in preaching and fighting for its own doctrine." (Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 12)</p> <p>"And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of his estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary, He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God." (Mein Kampf, pp. 174)</p> <p>I'm not here to argue about Hitler's religious views or religion in general. This is simply a response to your first post in which you posited that Nazis drew their inspiration from Hinduism, which is not entirely true. And to the extent it is true, they drew far greater inspiration from Christianity for their terrible deeds.</p> “My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice. And as a man I have the duty to see to it that human society does not suffer the same catastrophic collapse as did the civilization of the ancient world some two thousand years ago — a civilization which was driven to its ruin through this same Jewish people.” (Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered at Munich, April 12, 1922; from Norman H. Baynes, ed., The Speeches of Adolf Hitler: April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1, New York: Oxford University Press, 1942, pp. 19-20.)

“The greatness of Christianity did not lie in attempted negotiations for compromise with any similar philosophical opinions in the ancient world, but in its inexorable fanaticism in preaching and fighting for its own doctrine.” (Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 12)

“And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of his estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary, He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God.” (Mein Kampf, pp. 174)

I’m not here to argue about Hitler’s religious views or religion in general. This is simply a response to your first post in which you posited that Nazis drew their inspiration from Hinduism, which is not entirely true. And to the extent it is true, they drew far greater inspiration from Christianity for their terrible deeds.

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By: alt http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/06/10/this_really_nee/comment-page-2/#comment-273688 alt Sun, 13 Jun 2010 00:28:25 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6208#comment-273688 <p>@ 79 · ds on June 12, 2010 1:57 PM · Direct link</p> <p>What Christian dogmas did Hitler subscribe to, as you write? Please provide a credible source. It is well known Hitler frequently called Christianity the great "scourge" of history and a religion fit for slaves.</p> <p>See this quote from his right-hand man:</p> <p>“Hitler usually concluded this historical speculation by remarking, ‘You see, it’s been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn’t we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness….” -Albert. Speer, Inside the Third Reich</p> @ 79 · ds on June 12, 2010 1:57 PM · Direct link

What Christian dogmas did Hitler subscribe to, as you write? Please provide a credible source. It is well known Hitler frequently called Christianity the great “scourge” of history and a religion fit for slaves.

See this quote from his right-hand man:

“Hitler usually concluded this historical speculation by remarking, ‘You see, it’s been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn’t we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness….” -Albert. Speer, Inside the Third Reich

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By: AJ http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/06/10/this_really_nee/comment-page-2/#comment-273678 AJ Sat, 12 Jun 2010 21:31:30 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6208#comment-273678 <blockquote>The British Raj should be despised for its atrocities in India. But that doesn't make Hitler and the Nazis admirable just because they were far away and for whatever historical reason were not colonizers of India.</blockquote> <p>Ironically, the British Raj is admired much more than Hitler, even though people should know better.</p> The British Raj should be despised for its atrocities in India. But that doesn’t make Hitler and the Nazis admirable just because they were far away and for whatever historical reason were not colonizers of India.

Ironically, the British Raj is admired much more than Hitler, even though people should know better.

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