Comments on: If You Go to Patna http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/05/22/if_you_go_to_pa/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Thakur Vikas Sinha http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/05/22/if_you_go_to_pa/comment-page-1/#comment-273114 Thakur Vikas Sinha Fri, 04 Jun 2010 10:51:50 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6176#comment-273114 <p>Why is a vacation in Patna like going for a martini to the bus stand? What is it about Patna or indeed Bihar that makes people in a sense denigrate it? Isn't nostalgia a normal human feeling, even more so for a place where spent one's impressionable age and where one's parents live? Where else can one get the relaxation, the reason why one goes for a vacation, if not in such a place?</p> <p>I too am from Patna, in fact the very road where Amitava's parent's live, and learnt to ride bicycle on the same road or Path as it is called in Hindi & went to the Children's park for cricket. I too left Patna quite early, just after my ISc (12th) in 1982 and keep going back. Then too guys who left Patna earlier than me lamented what Patna had become and talked of the Patna St X or Patna College or the Science College or PMCH of their days. I wonder what is it that makes it own children view Patna in this way? Why does Floridian, in his otherwise brilliant post, says "Ultimately cities like Patna are about one’s past."</p> <p>Fact is, notwithstanding all the dire words about the failing Patna, there were 86 IIT JEE in ISc batch of Patna Univ of '82, quite an achievement. The Civil services topper and several other fairly successful professionals came from my school batch, in spite of the lament of the seniors for the failing standards during my first alumni meet. History repeats itself, with now my batch-mates lamenting the falling standards of Patna even while Super 30 and others produce brilliant youngsters ready to take their place in society.</p> <p>No Patna is not about history, but about future. As the capital of the most youthful state in India, it is all about future. Its youth has already shown what they can achieve outside Bihar. Time is ripe when they do the same for their home. Its Anta ghat still sells the most organic of vegetables, as it has sold for centuries, vegetables grown in the Gangetic islands or Diyaras without any fertilizers or even manures, transported by boats. With Jharkhand gone, it has the best chance to be the greenest state in India and indeed the world. The aroma of Jhangri or green gram is still the best there. It is only in Patna that you can get the crispy Samosa, made with just potatoes and a hint of masala (not the over spicy Greenpark, Delhi type) or the parval ka mithai. Michael Wood, in his well regarded TV serial The Story of India calls it a most remarkable city, like Rome and Egypt rolled into one - a religious, political and cultural centre - once the greatest city in the world. Pratham, the well respected education NGO, has several papers saying how the kids here absorb faster than elsewhere. Notwithstanding all the dire predictions, the genes of the Nalanda of yore are still alive and kicking.</p> Why is a vacation in Patna like going for a martini to the bus stand? What is it about Patna or indeed Bihar that makes people in a sense denigrate it? Isn’t nostalgia a normal human feeling, even more so for a place where spent one’s impressionable age and where one’s parents live? Where else can one get the relaxation, the reason why one goes for a vacation, if not in such a place?

I too am from Patna, in fact the very road where Amitava’s parent’s live, and learnt to ride bicycle on the same road or Path as it is called in Hindi & went to the Children’s park for cricket. I too left Patna quite early, just after my ISc (12th) in 1982 and keep going back. Then too guys who left Patna earlier than me lamented what Patna had become and talked of the Patna St X or Patna College or the Science College or PMCH of their days. I wonder what is it that makes it own children view Patna in this way? Why does Floridian, in his otherwise brilliant post, says “Ultimately cities like Patna are about one’s past.”

Fact is, notwithstanding all the dire words about the failing Patna, there were 86 IIT JEE in ISc batch of Patna Univ of ’82, quite an achievement. The Civil services topper and several other fairly successful professionals came from my school batch, in spite of the lament of the seniors for the failing standards during my first alumni meet. History repeats itself, with now my batch-mates lamenting the falling standards of Patna even while Super 30 and others produce brilliant youngsters ready to take their place in society.

No Patna is not about history, but about future. As the capital of the most youthful state in India, it is all about future. Its youth has already shown what they can achieve outside Bihar. Time is ripe when they do the same for their home. Its Anta ghat still sells the most organic of vegetables, as it has sold for centuries, vegetables grown in the Gangetic islands or Diyaras without any fertilizers or even manures, transported by boats. With Jharkhand gone, it has the best chance to be the greenest state in India and indeed the world. The aroma of Jhangri or green gram is still the best there. It is only in Patna that you can get the crispy Samosa, made with just potatoes and a hint of masala (not the over spicy Greenpark, Delhi type) or the parval ka mithai. Michael Wood, in his well regarded TV serial The Story of India calls it a most remarkable city, like Rome and Egypt rolled into one – a religious, political and cultural centre – once the greatest city in the world. Pratham, the well respected education NGO, has several papers saying how the kids here absorb faster than elsewhere. Notwithstanding all the dire predictions, the genes of the Nalanda of yore are still alive and kicking.

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By: shiva http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/05/22/if_you_go_to_pa/comment-page-1/#comment-272490 shiva Mon, 24 May 2010 23:32:41 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6176#comment-272490 <p>In terms of the UN report on toilet versus cell phones, I wonder if any of the UN officials had to answer 'the call' while they were in the vicinity of their headquarter in Manhattan! (I, for one, have to look for the nearest Starbucks)!!!</p> In terms of the UN report on toilet versus cell phones, I wonder if any of the UN officials had to answer ‘the call’ while they were in the vicinity of their headquarter in Manhattan! (I, for one, have to look for the nearest Starbucks)!!!

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By: Malathi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/05/22/if_you_go_to_pa/comment-page-1/#comment-272472 Malathi Mon, 24 May 2010 19:58:49 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6176#comment-272472 <blockquote>As with my previous post, I’m very willing to admit arguments against the singularity I seem to have claimed for Patna or for New York: in each case, I’m describing only my particular relationship to an address. It is mine and mine alone. You would have to rip my throat to take it away from me. </blockquote> <p>Personally speaking, I welcome stories about Patna (or Springfield, America) and New York (or Maximum City) but <i><b>only</b></i> when places (or people) from the latter list are not set up (inadvertently or deliberately) as better and more special than thousand invisible others from the former list.</p> <p>When that happens, I get mad at the <b>systematic, collective </b>reasons that make vibrant people from distant, less-powerful regions invisible to the few with seductive voices and writing styles.</p> As with my previous post, I’m very willing to admit arguments against the singularity I seem to have claimed for Patna or for New York: in each case, I’m describing only my particular relationship to an address. It is mine and mine alone. You would have to rip my throat to take it away from me.

Personally speaking, I welcome stories about Patna (or Springfield, America) and New York (or Maximum City) but only when places (or people) from the latter list are not set up (inadvertently or deliberately) as better and more special than thousand invisible others from the former list.

When that happens, I get mad at the systematic, collective reasons that make vibrant people from distant, less-powerful regions invisible to the few with seductive voices and writing styles.

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By: Pagal_Aadmi_for_d... http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/05/22/if_you_go_to_pa/comment-page-1/#comment-272458 Pagal_Aadmi_for_d... Mon, 24 May 2010 17:46:35 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6176#comment-272458 <p>Don't most people in India live in villages? Big metropolitan cities like Delhi, Bangalore would have the second highest population. Tier 2 and 3 'cities' like Patna might actually have the 3rd highest population living in them. So maybe the villages and the big metro areas might be more representative of India (population wise) than Tier 2 and 3 cities.</p> Don’t most people in India live in villages? Big metropolitan cities like Delhi, Bangalore would have the second highest population. Tier 2 and 3 ‘cities’ like Patna might actually have the 3rd highest population living in them. So maybe the villages and the big metro areas might be more representative of India (population wise) than Tier 2 and 3 cities.

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By: ak http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/05/22/if_you_go_to_pa/comment-page-1/#comment-272455 ak Mon, 24 May 2010 17:06:45 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6176#comment-272455 <p>While I don't agree with the notion that small-town India is the "real" India, it definitely reflects a different flavour of India. and one that is, statistically speaking, more reflective of the majority of Indians. Despite growing up in the States, some of my best memories stem from my time in a little village in TN not far from Thanjavur. These days, my trips are so rushed, and I have no family left in that village, but as much as I have enjoyed my time in Madras (and other metros), spending time in an Indian village gives me a totally different perspective, and appreciation, of India that I doubt a strictly urban experience could.</p> <p>Thanks for this Amitava - this post was well-written, and resonates for many reasons, one of which is that it reminds me so much of A Suitable Boy's Brahmpur. Looking forward to your future posts.</p> While I don’t agree with the notion that small-town India is the “real” India, it definitely reflects a different flavour of India. and one that is, statistically speaking, more reflective of the majority of Indians. Despite growing up in the States, some of my best memories stem from my time in a little village in TN not far from Thanjavur. These days, my trips are so rushed, and I have no family left in that village, but as much as I have enjoyed my time in Madras (and other metros), spending time in an Indian village gives me a totally different perspective, and appreciation, of India that I doubt a strictly urban experience could.

Thanks for this Amitava – this post was well-written, and resonates for many reasons, one of which is that it reminds me so much of A Suitable Boy’s Brahmpur. Looking forward to your future posts.

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By: Amitava http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/05/22/if_you_go_to_pa/comment-page-1/#comment-272443 Amitava Mon, 24 May 2010 05:07:41 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6176#comment-272443 <p>Things haven’t been <a href="http://huff.to/dw8W6o">extremely gory</a> at Sepia Mutiny and for that I have to thank the readers who have been very welcoming. And Amardeep, whose mind is more powerful than a search engine. Also, Floridian and others, thank you. Bahut chhoti duniya hai, bhai. For those feeling nostalgic about Patna, and its past, here is <a href="http://www.kenyonreview.org/issues/sf02/kumar.php">a link to a brief piece</a> that later became a part of my book Bombay-London-New York. As with my previous post, I’m very willing to admit arguments against the singularity I seem to have claimed for Patna or for New York: in each case, I’m describing only my particular relationship to an address. It is mine and mine alone. You would have to rip my throat to take it away from me.</p> Things haven’t been extremely gory at Sepia Mutiny and for that I have to thank the readers who have been very welcoming. And Amardeep, whose mind is more powerful than a search engine. Also, Floridian and others, thank you. Bahut chhoti duniya hai, bhai. For those feeling nostalgic about Patna, and its past, here is a link to a brief piece that later became a part of my book Bombay-London-New York. As with my previous post, I’m very willing to admit arguments against the singularity I seem to have claimed for Patna or for New York: in each case, I’m describing only my particular relationship to an address. It is mine and mine alone. You would have to rip my throat to take it away from me.

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By: oldtime-SMer http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/05/22/if_you_go_to_pa/comment-page-1/#comment-272442 oldtime-SMer Mon, 24 May 2010 03:21:45 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6176#comment-272442 <p>Amitava, nice post and glad to see you'll be blogging here. I've visited your website often, following the link from ultrabrown, and have liked your writing a lot. And Floridian, what a nice comment from you!</p> <p>I had no idea there had been a 'ten million dead' famine in the 1780s. However I searched around, and this (by the looks of it, well-sourced) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_major_famines_in_India_during_British_rule_(1765_to_1947)">Wikipedia entry </a> claims more than 30 million people died during 3 major famines during 1770-90, about ten million each time. And the total population of India in 1800 is placed below 200 million (though all figures for this year are estimates and vary quite a bit). Thus, these famines wiped out more than 15% or nearly one-sixth of all Indians at the time, if the figures are to be believed.</p> <p>In searching, I also found this <a href="http://www.panoramio.com/photo/8798300">nice picture of the Gol Ghar granary</a>, and <a href="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Cg02E5r8Wzo/SuXP6zvpmKI/AAAAAAAABM4/8R2KUd9BcEI/golghar_patna_ge_view.jpg">the Google GeoEye picture</a> clearly shows the spiral staircase you mention. I wonder what the fatal flaw in the granary doors was.</p> Amitava, nice post and glad to see you’ll be blogging here. I’ve visited your website often, following the link from ultrabrown, and have liked your writing a lot. And Floridian, what a nice comment from you!

I had no idea there had been a ‘ten million dead’ famine in the 1780s. However I searched around, and this (by the looks of it, well-sourced) Wikipedia entry claims more than 30 million people died during 3 major famines during 1770-90, about ten million each time. And the total population of India in 1800 is placed below 200 million (though all figures for this year are estimates and vary quite a bit). Thus, these famines wiped out more than 15% or nearly one-sixth of all Indians at the time, if the figures are to be believed.

In searching, I also found this nice picture of the Gol Ghar granary, and the Google GeoEye picture clearly shows the spiral staircase you mention. I wonder what the fatal flaw in the granary doors was.

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By: lifelong http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/05/22/if_you_go_to_pa/comment-page-1/#comment-272441 lifelong Mon, 24 May 2010 02:09:25 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6176#comment-272441 <p>Yeah Floridian. My grandparents lived in a tier 3 town, and your description resonates. I too feel that this is the real Bharat. Thanks. Looking forward to reading more from Amitava.</p> Yeah Floridian. My grandparents lived in a tier 3 town, and your description resonates. I too feel that this is the real Bharat. Thanks. Looking forward to reading more from Amitava.

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By: Floridian http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/05/22/if_you_go_to_pa/comment-page-1/#comment-272440 Floridian Mon, 24 May 2010 01:38:58 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6176#comment-272440 <blockquote>14 · Amardeep on May 23, 2010 6:32 PM · Direct link Amitava should now do a seriously long (not a serious one hopefully) piece on his hometown and homestate. A novella perhaps. </blockquote> <p>Yes, yes, yes! I would even settle for a few pages if you don't have the time for a book, Amitava.</p> 14 · Amardeep on May 23, 2010 6:32 PM · Direct link Amitava should now do a seriously long (not a serious one hopefully) piece on his hometown and homestate. A novella perhaps.

Yes, yes, yes! I would even settle for a few pages if you don’t have the time for a book, Amitava.

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By: Floridian http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/05/22/if_you_go_to_pa/comment-page-1/#comment-272439 Floridian Mon, 24 May 2010 01:33:26 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6176#comment-272439 <p>Amitava, we have never met but our paths have crossed vicariously through our fathers, both Patliputra "Colonists," retired IAS officers and, of course, the movers and shakers of Patna society. In May, 2000 you presented your dad with an autographed copy of your book “Passport Photos” which he, in his typical Indian “my son the doctor” exuberance over your accomplishment, presented to my dad. Since I too went to UF, my dad gave the book to me as a subtle reminder of what I could have accomplished, the lack of talent notwithstanding, had I stayed in English Literature instead of going on to B-school and dedicating my life to the much lower pursuit of filthy lucre. I will send you an e-mail revealing my identity so we can remain in touch.</p> <p>My random thoughts on Patna, a city I left exactly 38 years ago but a city that has never left me.</p> <ol> <li><p>Patna is real India because regardless of the all those cell phones and multiplexes, 90% of India still lives in Tier 2, 3,…cities and villages. If Patna now boasts a few pool halls, the patrons are probably less than .001% of the population. Similarly, only a few hundred men – ladies not invited – play golf at Patna’s only golf course, a charming relic of the Raj and the only course in the world where you can tee off with the roar of lions and trumpeting of elephants in the background. The course abuts the Patna zoo, which in my opinion is one of the best sights of Patna if you admire a genuine botanical garden, early morning walks with piped in classical music from loudspeakers welcoming you to the zoo, power mad ministers on morning walks with their entourage and sub-machine gun toting bodyguards, a beautiful lake with boats for rent, eating Indian style chow mein at the zoo cafeteria, watching lovers whisper sweet nothings - this is not Delhi, yaar - and yes, lots of animals.</p></li> <li><p>Patna does have a disproportionately high concentration of jewelry stores and medical practices, both businesses heavily patronized by the tens and thousands of affluent rural and small-town people who pour into Patna daily to buy the best medical treatment from FRCS and MRCP doctors or to invest in gold jewelry and obscenely expensive saris, which in India rank right behind real estate as one of the safest forms of investment. Leave the stock market to those Mumbai "seths" and IT yuppies.</p></li> <li><p>All NRI hot-shots like Amitava and yours truly return to Patna quite often and not only because of our parents. There is something about hanging out with old “langotiya years” in one of Patna’s many dusty, fly infested “chai ka dukans” that beats the local Starbucks hands down. And let's not forget all those old relatives and friends, who treat you like the prodigal son who could do no wrong even if you are the schmuck who got fired from your five-figure job in the US for screwing up the new product launch or still pronounce pizza like the Urdu word “fiza” even after having lived in the US for decades. In times of trouble, Patna is a lot cheaper and far more effective than therapy.</p></li> <li><p>Ultimately cities like Patna are about one’s past, a past that becomes more relevant with every passing year. I will be 58 soon. It is not nostalgia talking. It is the entire force of one’s formative years that shapes most of one’s life. Yes, I have lived in other places twice as long as I lived in Patna, but deep down I am a still a Patania, not Patnaite as you called us you underscoring my_dog_jagat. But I forgive you.</p></li> <li><p>The best place to play pool, or in my day snooker, in Patna is still Bankipore Club, still with the “pore” in its spelling and a drafty old relic from the Raj that was established just 8 years after the Sepoy Mutiny, dear SM readers. Though terribly frayed around the edges, the Club is still the gathering place for Patna’s powerful and rich, the rich always playing second fiddle to the powerful in this essentially government town. The privilege of buying the chief secretary or a high court judge a drink is still the dream of many wealthy businessmen at the Bankipore Club.</p></li> </ol> <p>Thanks, Amitava, for the post. See you at the corner chai shop some day, the one that is right by the open field as you approach Patliputra Colony from the Boring Road side.</p> Amitava, we have never met but our paths have crossed vicariously through our fathers, both Patliputra “Colonists,” retired IAS officers and, of course, the movers and shakers of Patna society. In May, 2000 you presented your dad with an autographed copy of your book “Passport Photos” which he, in his typical Indian “my son the doctor” exuberance over your accomplishment, presented to my dad. Since I too went to UF, my dad gave the book to me as a subtle reminder of what I could have accomplished, the lack of talent notwithstanding, had I stayed in English Literature instead of going on to B-school and dedicating my life to the much lower pursuit of filthy lucre. I will send you an e-mail revealing my identity so we can remain in touch.

My random thoughts on Patna, a city I left exactly 38 years ago but a city that has never left me.

  1. Patna is real India because regardless of the all those cell phones and multiplexes, 90% of India still lives in Tier 2, 3,…cities and villages. If Patna now boasts a few pool halls, the patrons are probably less than .001% of the population. Similarly, only a few hundred men – ladies not invited – play golf at Patna’s only golf course, a charming relic of the Raj and the only course in the world where you can tee off with the roar of lions and trumpeting of elephants in the background. The course abuts the Patna zoo, which in my opinion is one of the best sights of Patna if you admire a genuine botanical garden, early morning walks with piped in classical music from loudspeakers welcoming you to the zoo, power mad ministers on morning walks with their entourage and sub-machine gun toting bodyguards, a beautiful lake with boats for rent, eating Indian style chow mein at the zoo cafeteria, watching lovers whisper sweet nothings – this is not Delhi, yaar – and yes, lots of animals.

  2. Patna does have a disproportionately high concentration of jewelry stores and medical practices, both businesses heavily patronized by the tens and thousands of affluent rural and small-town people who pour into Patna daily to buy the best medical treatment from FRCS and MRCP doctors or to invest in gold jewelry and obscenely expensive saris, which in India rank right behind real estate as one of the safest forms of investment. Leave the stock market to those Mumbai “seths” and IT yuppies.

  3. All NRI hot-shots like Amitava and yours truly return to Patna quite often and not only because of our parents. There is something about hanging out with old “langotiya years” in one of Patna’s many dusty, fly infested “chai ka dukans” that beats the local Starbucks hands down. And let’s not forget all those old relatives and friends, who treat you like the prodigal son who could do no wrong even if you are the schmuck who got fired from your five-figure job in the US for screwing up the new product launch or still pronounce pizza like the Urdu word “fiza” even after having lived in the US for decades. In times of trouble, Patna is a lot cheaper and far more effective than therapy.

  4. Ultimately cities like Patna are about one’s past, a past that becomes more relevant with every passing year. I will be 58 soon. It is not nostalgia talking. It is the entire force of one’s formative years that shapes most of one’s life. Yes, I have lived in other places twice as long as I lived in Patna, but deep down I am a still a Patania, not Patnaite as you called us you underscoring my_dog_jagat. But I forgive you.

  5. The best place to play pool, or in my day snooker, in Patna is still Bankipore Club, still with the “pore” in its spelling and a drafty old relic from the Raj that was established just 8 years after the Sepoy Mutiny, dear SM readers. Though terribly frayed around the edges, the Club is still the gathering place for Patna’s powerful and rich, the rich always playing second fiddle to the powerful in this essentially government town. The privilege of buying the chief secretary or a high court judge a drink is still the dream of many wealthy businessmen at the Bankipore Club.

Thanks, Amitava, for the post. See you at the corner chai shop some day, the one that is right by the open field as you approach Patliputra Colony from the Boring Road side.

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