Comments on: Even if He’s Just a Pakistani… http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/05/06/what_does_a_pak/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Asad http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/05/06/what_does_a_pak/comment-page-2/#comment-275787 Asad Mon, 12 Jul 2010 23:53:59 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6154#comment-275787 <p>cant we all just get along? i say this not for lack of something more productive to say, but after thinking long and hard, and erasing my pennyworth of pseudosophiticated rant. god knows we have enough people here to make no point at endless length.</p> cant we all just get along? i say this not for lack of something more productive to say, but after thinking long and hard, and erasing my pennyworth of pseudosophiticated rant. god knows we have enough people here to make no point at endless length.

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By: Mustafa http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/05/06/what_does_a_pak/comment-page-2/#comment-272028 Mustafa Mon, 17 May 2010 03:52:45 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6154#comment-272028 <p>Faisal Shahzad is Pushtun, that explains his fair complexion. I am ethnic kin to him. But while his family joined the Pakistani military, my family served in the Royal Afghan Air Force prior to the Saur Revolution and Soviet occupation of Afghanistan.</p> <p>Pushtuns are Pakistan's Achilles Heel.</p> <p>This man's conversion to militant Islam is sad but not surprising.</p> <p>My favorite Hindu bhajan is from the film Jodha Ackbar called "Manmohana" by Muslim convert AR Rehman.</p> Faisal Shahzad is Pushtun, that explains his fair complexion. I am ethnic kin to him. But while his family joined the Pakistani military, my family served in the Royal Afghan Air Force prior to the Saur Revolution and Soviet occupation of Afghanistan.

Pushtuns are Pakistan’s Achilles Heel.

This man’s conversion to militant Islam is sad but not surprising.

My favorite Hindu bhajan is from the film Jodha Ackbar called “Manmohana” by Muslim convert AR Rehman.

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By: MB http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/05/06/what_does_a_pak/comment-page-2/#comment-271899 MB Thu, 13 May 2010 12:41:03 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6154#comment-271899 <p>Thank you so much for exposing HATE PREACHERs like AHMED QURESHI.</p> <p>Such people brainwash young minds and preach hate against WEST but will never point out the mistakes of our own nation.</p> Thank you so much for exposing HATE PREACHERs like AHMED QURESHI.

Such people brainwash young minds and preach hate against WEST but will never point out the mistakes of our own nation.

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By: Shilpa http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/05/06/what_does_a_pak/comment-page-2/#comment-271707 Shilpa Mon, 10 May 2010 20:42:36 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6154#comment-271707 <p>Varun, I'm with you 90%. If Kashmir cooks off again, won't that be a "religious war," though? My (crude?) read of European history is that their religious wars ended in 1638. After that it the wars were over nationalism and then, political ideology, at least the big ones. But it's parroting Euros too much to think that somehow "religious" war is more uncivilized than ethnic war. . . .</p> <p>gm, I think "Abrahamics" as a useful term fades in importance once you know more. Muslims are the only one whose holy book says "slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful." (Sura 9:5) Sure, there's the "out of context" claim, etc., etc. but that's a firm textual basis for the jihadis like Hafiz Saeed. And just look at the history of the subcontinent (which I've learned the real truth about since coming to America, since Indian textbooks are censored on the topic of Islamic invasions and temple destructions).</p> Varun, I’m with you 90%. If Kashmir cooks off again, won’t that be a “religious war,” though? My (crude?) read of European history is that their religious wars ended in 1638. After that it the wars were over nationalism and then, political ideology, at least the big ones. But it’s parroting Euros too much to think that somehow “religious” war is more uncivilized than ethnic war. . . .

gm, I think “Abrahamics” as a useful term fades in importance once you know more. Muslims are the only one whose holy book says “slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful.” (Sura 9:5) Sure, there’s the “out of context” claim, etc., etc. but that’s a firm textual basis for the jihadis like Hafiz Saeed. And just look at the history of the subcontinent (which I’ve learned the real truth about since coming to America, since Indian textbooks are censored on the topic of Islamic invasions and temple destructions).

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By: Varun Shekhar http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/05/06/what_does_a_pak/comment-page-2/#comment-271706 Varun Shekhar Mon, 10 May 2010 20:34:33 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6154#comment-271706 <p>"It's more like a white vs brown issue to me."</p> <p>Interesting that you mention this! Just yesterday, I was talking to a Black Christian originally from Guyana, who also happens to be a Christian teacher. Guess what? This guy is completely comfortable with Hinduism- imagery, devotion and people. He said he sees no conflict between his Christian affiliations and going every now and then to a Hindu temple. What a contrast to the neanderthal, ignorant, crude, bigoted Pat Robertson and Billy Graham types. It's more the white Christian, specifically the devout, zealous kind of white Christian, who propagates the nonsense of Hinduism being a false religion, and Hindus in need of conversion.</p> “It’s more like a white vs brown issue to me.”

Interesting that you mention this! Just yesterday, I was talking to a Black Christian originally from Guyana, who also happens to be a Christian teacher. Guess what? This guy is completely comfortable with Hinduism- imagery, devotion and people. He said he sees no conflict between his Christian affiliations and going every now and then to a Hindu temple. What a contrast to the neanderthal, ignorant, crude, bigoted Pat Robertson and Billy Graham types. It’s more the white Christian, specifically the devout, zealous kind of white Christian, who propagates the nonsense of Hinduism being a false religion, and Hindus in need of conversion.

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By: Varun Shekhar http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/05/06/what_does_a_pak/comment-page-2/#comment-271705 Varun Shekhar Mon, 10 May 2010 20:28:53 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6154#comment-271705 <p>" So if there is a religious war, I would think Hinduism and Buddhism would be the first targets, not Islam. (Although there are Pat Robertson types and lots of other Bible Thumpers who hate Hindus and other brownie religions with a passion.)"</p> <p>That's crude and simplistic. First of all, there is very, very unlikely going to be a 'religious war'. One of the reasons being that religion is at best something part time in the Western world, particularly Europe. Secondly, while the origins of Hinduism and Buddhism are different than the so called "Abrahamic' religions, there are other factors about people and countries falling under those religions that would prevent any serious hostility breaking out. In fact some of them, India being outstanding, have other features like freedom, democracy, pluralism, openness, the English language, commitment to modernity etc, that are attractive and worthy of support. Religious difference isn't everything; for many people, it's negligible or nothing.</p> ” So if there is a religious war, I would think Hinduism and Buddhism would be the first targets, not Islam. (Although there are Pat Robertson types and lots of other Bible Thumpers who hate Hindus and other brownie religions with a passion.)”

That’s crude and simplistic. First of all, there is very, very unlikely going to be a ‘religious war’. One of the reasons being that religion is at best something part time in the Western world, particularly Europe. Secondly, while the origins of Hinduism and Buddhism are different than the so called “Abrahamic’ religions, there are other factors about people and countries falling under those religions that would prevent any serious hostility breaking out. In fact some of them, India being outstanding, have other features like freedom, democracy, pluralism, openness, the English language, commitment to modernity etc, that are attractive and worthy of support. Religious difference isn’t everything; for many people, it’s negligible or nothing.

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By: gm http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/05/06/what_does_a_pak/comment-page-2/#comment-271704 gm Mon, 10 May 2010 18:09:20 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6154#comment-271704 <p>The commenter Mustafa brings up some valid and interesting points. It seems it's always the loud obnoxious idiots that are trying to represent a religion of over a billion people, who are overall a peaceful group.</p> <p>This is my opinion only, but I'm not sure if it's a religious war going on. It's more like a white vs brown issue to me. I believe Islam came directly from Judaism, and the followers of Islam observe the Old Testament & the 10 Commandments, believe in the Christian/Judaic concepts of angels, monotheism, etc (the angel Gabriel was supposed to have given the Koran to Mohammed - or something like that) Hindu/Buddhist/Jains are quite different. Of course there is some overlap like, Thou shall not kill (like Hinduism's ahimsa) and so forth. To me, Islam has much more in common with the Jewish & Christian religions than with Hinduism/Jainism/Buddhism. So if there is a religious war, I would think Hinduism and Buddhism would be the first targets, not Islam. (Although there are Pat Robertson types and lots of other Bible Thumpers who hate Hindus and other brownie religions with a passion.)</p> The commenter Mustafa brings up some valid and interesting points. It seems it’s always the loud obnoxious idiots that are trying to represent a religion of over a billion people, who are overall a peaceful group.

This is my opinion only, but I’m not sure if it’s a religious war going on. It’s more like a white vs brown issue to me. I believe Islam came directly from Judaism, and the followers of Islam observe the Old Testament & the 10 Commandments, believe in the Christian/Judaic concepts of angels, monotheism, etc (the angel Gabriel was supposed to have given the Koran to Mohammed – or something like that) Hindu/Buddhist/Jains are quite different. Of course there is some overlap like, Thou shall not kill (like Hinduism’s ahimsa) and so forth. To me, Islam has much more in common with the Jewish & Christian religions than with Hinduism/Jainism/Buddhism. So if there is a religious war, I would think Hinduism and Buddhism would be the first targets, not Islam. (Although there are Pat Robertson types and lots of other Bible Thumpers who hate Hindus and other brownie religions with a passion.)

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By: gm http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/05/06/what_does_a_pak/comment-page-2/#comment-271702 gm Mon, 10 May 2010 17:47:00 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6154#comment-271702 <p>" Darth Paul on May 6, 2010 2:23 PM Looks like TP propaganda..."</p> <p>At first glance I thought the TP was for toilet paper (my shorthand for my shop list.) Then I realized it must be for "Tea Party" - correct me if that's wrong. Most tea partiers are strange & scary characters and quite capable of propaganda.</p> <p>The MTA poster, which is supposed to be a joke, reflects the reality especially after the events of 9/11. As a brown Hindu born and raised in the US, I see strangers giving me and my family creepy suspicious looks -people are scared. How does a local WASP (or any white American) know the difference between a Hindu/Muslim/Brown/whatever. They are all lumped together as a suspicious group. My daughter has an acquaintance from school who is Pakistani (with pale white skin and light brown hair - she looks more like a northern Italian or French girl) and has similar coloring like the nutcase Failsal Shazhad. In the media pictures, Shazhad doesn't look like a typical Desi at all. So should people who look French or Italian be watched? It's crazy.</p> ” Darth Paul on May 6, 2010 2:23 PM Looks like TP propaganda…”

At first glance I thought the TP was for toilet paper (my shorthand for my shop list.) Then I realized it must be for “Tea Party” – correct me if that’s wrong. Most tea partiers are strange & scary characters and quite capable of propaganda.

The MTA poster, which is supposed to be a joke, reflects the reality especially after the events of 9/11. As a brown Hindu born and raised in the US, I see strangers giving me and my family creepy suspicious looks -people are scared. How does a local WASP (or any white American) know the difference between a Hindu/Muslim/Brown/whatever. They are all lumped together as a suspicious group. My daughter has an acquaintance from school who is Pakistani (with pale white skin and light brown hair – she looks more like a northern Italian or French girl) and has similar coloring like the nutcase Failsal Shazhad. In the media pictures, Shazhad doesn’t look like a typical Desi at all. So should people who look French or Italian be watched? It’s crazy.

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By: Mustafa http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/05/06/what_does_a_pak/comment-page-2/#comment-271693 Mustafa Mon, 10 May 2010 04:17:16 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6154#comment-271693 <p>@ Metal Mickey,</p> <p>Some American Irish supported the IRA during the Troubles.</p> <p>Some Muslims, including American Desis, do support and condone malignant Islamism. Turkey is ruled by a benign Islamist regime. I'm a secular benign Islamist. I do not agree with the imposition of violence to coerce others to convert or practice Islam. Religion is a personal matter. Gandhi studied Islam but was a Hindu. Guru Nanak studied Islam but raised a Hindu. All religions have their merits. The issues we see in the Muslim world are rioted in conflict, scarce resources, tribalism, sexism, misogyny, racism, ethnocentric thinking, ignorance, prejudice, and bias.</p> <p>India was remained loyal to secular nationalism, Pakistan acquired a "theocratic nationalism" which was promoted in the military and has become cancerous.</p> @ Metal Mickey,

Some American Irish supported the IRA during the Troubles.

Some Muslims, including American Desis, do support and condone malignant Islamism. Turkey is ruled by a benign Islamist regime. I’m a secular benign Islamist. I do not agree with the imposition of violence to coerce others to convert or practice Islam. Religion is a personal matter. Gandhi studied Islam but was a Hindu. Guru Nanak studied Islam but raised a Hindu. All religions have their merits. The issues we see in the Muslim world are rioted in conflict, scarce resources, tribalism, sexism, misogyny, racism, ethnocentric thinking, ignorance, prejudice, and bias.

India was remained loyal to secular nationalism, Pakistan acquired a “theocratic nationalism” which was promoted in the military and has become cancerous.

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By: Shilpa http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/05/06/what_does_a_pak/comment-page-2/#comment-271692 Shilpa Mon, 10 May 2010 03:39:15 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6154#comment-271692 <blockquote>does that mean that a disproportionate number of Catholics were terrorists?</blockquote> <p>Yes. Was this supposed to be a trick question? I suppose the main difference between the IRA and the Islamists was that the IRA's goals and methods were limited--they weren't, for example, trying to acquire a nuclear device and detonate it in the UK (nor did their territorial ambitions extend beyond Ireland). If the Islamists aren't stopped, they probably will acquire and use a nuclear device, and then hundreds of millions of Muslims will be dead within months--in whose interest is that?,</p> does that mean that a disproportionate number of Catholics were terrorists?

Yes. Was this supposed to be a trick question? I suppose the main difference between the IRA and the Islamists was that the IRA’s goals and methods were limited–they weren’t, for example, trying to acquire a nuclear device and detonate it in the UK (nor did their territorial ambitions extend beyond Ireland). If the Islamists aren’t stopped, they probably will acquire and use a nuclear device, and then hundreds of millions of Muslims will be dead within months–in whose interest is that?,

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