Comments on: Should Indians worry about this scary infographic? http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/04/12/should_indians/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Actos Injury http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/04/12/should_indians/comment-page-2/#comment-286108 Actos Injury Thu, 25 Aug 2011 18:20:04 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6136#comment-286108 <p>I think that every nation should have an amount of food directly proportional with the number of people. India is one of the most populated countries in the world and there should be a lot of food. Until the leaders of the world won't work together to reach a state where everybody is happy, there will be a lot of poverty and starvation.</p> I think that every nation should have an amount of food directly proportional with the number of people. India is one of the most populated countries in the world and there should be a lot of food. Until the leaders of the world won’t work together to reach a state where everybody is happy, there will be a lot of poverty and starvation.

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By: Rob http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/04/12/should_indians/comment-page-2/#comment-286024 Rob Sun, 14 Aug 2011 22:32:49 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6136#comment-286024 <p>Diabetes in of itself is a massive epidemic growing more massive than a one-headed serpent. You can only blame the US for it's fast food culture that is rearing its head the world over. Not only the processed foot itself but the sugar (as soda) being consumed. With every fast food chain comes soda, the more soda consumed, the more sugar your body has to process. Eventually your body can't keep up ultimately giving way to insulin resistance. Let's not forget that every great health epidemic has a drug company ready to profit so goes the vicious corporate circle of greed. Take the drug Avandia or Actos for example. FDA approved then years later, finding out they cause heart attacks, stroke, kidney and bladder cancers. Go figure, can't the doctor community prescribe a dose of good food diet and exercise? According to this infographic, the world's health is withering away, <a href="http://www.actosinjurylawyers.com/infographic-diabetes-around-the-world/">http://www.actosinjurylawyers.com/infographic-diabetes-around-the-world/</a> - Roberto @ <a href="http://www.actosinjurylawyers.com/">Actos bladder cancer</a></p> Diabetes in of itself is a massive epidemic growing more massive than a one-headed serpent. You can only blame the US for it’s fast food culture that is rearing its head the world over. Not only the processed foot itself but the sugar (as soda) being consumed. With every fast food chain comes soda, the more soda consumed, the more sugar your body has to process. Eventually your body can’t keep up ultimately giving way to insulin resistance. Let’s not forget that every great health epidemic has a drug company ready to profit so goes the vicious corporate circle of greed. Take the drug Avandia or Actos for example. FDA approved then years later, finding out they cause heart attacks, stroke, kidney and bladder cancers. Go figure, can’t the doctor community prescribe a dose of good food diet and exercise? According to this infographic, the world’s health is withering away, http://www.actosinjurylawyers.com/infographic-diabetes-around-the-world/ – Roberto @ Actos bladder cancer

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By: LinZi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/04/12/should_indians/comment-page-2/#comment-270891 LinZi Sun, 25 Apr 2010 17:01:49 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6136#comment-270891 <blockquote>It is clear from your response that you know all the bad effects and their extreme manifestations, however, I must disagree with your implied conclusion that those prognoses are inevitable no matter what. Early diagnosis and aggressive insulin therapy is the only solution generally available and I have my endocrinologist's assurance that 'it works'. </blockquote> <p>From your description can I am guessing that you have type I diabetes (your pancreas no longer produces ANY insulin)?</p> <p>None of my comments contradict your second statement, if you are talking about type I diabetes. Type I cannot be altered or changed through lifestyle changes, because the pancreas is not producing any insulin. Type I is NOT caused by obesity, bad diets, etc, it is a random (often following flu like symptoms) and a trigger event (it happens suddenly and is irreversible).</p> <p>Type II diabetics have MANY more options for treatment than Type I. In addition to insulin, there are oral medications that can be used such as Avandia (which increased cellular response to insulin by decreasing insulin resistance), or Glucophage (which reduces the production of glucose by the liver and increased the muscles' glucose uptake and use). These types of treatments can (with life-style changes such as diet and exercise) prevent a Type II diabetic from becoming insulin dependent and can also reverse some of the diabetic process. They can also be used in conjunction with insulin to more effectively manage diabetes for Type II Diabetics.</p> <p>Where I disagreed with your first statement was when you suggested that nothing besides insulin effects diabetes. It depends on what kind of Diabetes you have (I or II) and other factors specific to each person.</p> <p>The fact that you do not have any other symptoms (such as neuropathy) may be because a.) you are lucky b.) you are managing your sugar levels well (if they are more steady and do not have a lot of peaks and valleys, you will have less adverse effects on your body or c.) you just have not gotten them yet (unfortunate, but true).</p> <p>Unfortunately, many people with diabetes do have many more complications.</p> <p>I don't say I am an expert on the subject, but I am a MSN student who is working with diabetes patients in the hospital and also studying the pharmacology and pathophysiology of diabetes as we speak (for a test I need to take later today). If you would like to know my sources they are: Pharmacology and the Nursing Process by Lilley, Rainforth Collins, Harrington, and Snyder, 2011), and Pharmacology for Nursing, version 4.2 by ATI. p. 441-459).</p> It is clear from your response that you know all the bad effects and their extreme manifestations, however, I must disagree with your implied conclusion that those prognoses are inevitable no matter what. Early diagnosis and aggressive insulin therapy is the only solution generally available and I have my endocrinologist’s assurance that ‘it works’.

From your description can I am guessing that you have type I diabetes (your pancreas no longer produces ANY insulin)?

None of my comments contradict your second statement, if you are talking about type I diabetes. Type I cannot be altered or changed through lifestyle changes, because the pancreas is not producing any insulin. Type I is NOT caused by obesity, bad diets, etc, it is a random (often following flu like symptoms) and a trigger event (it happens suddenly and is irreversible).

Type II diabetics have MANY more options for treatment than Type I. In addition to insulin, there are oral medications that can be used such as Avandia (which increased cellular response to insulin by decreasing insulin resistance), or Glucophage (which reduces the production of glucose by the liver and increased the muscles’ glucose uptake and use). These types of treatments can (with life-style changes such as diet and exercise) prevent a Type II diabetic from becoming insulin dependent and can also reverse some of the diabetic process. They can also be used in conjunction with insulin to more effectively manage diabetes for Type II Diabetics.

Where I disagreed with your first statement was when you suggested that nothing besides insulin effects diabetes. It depends on what kind of Diabetes you have (I or II) and other factors specific to each person.

The fact that you do not have any other symptoms (such as neuropathy) may be because a.) you are lucky b.) you are managing your sugar levels well (if they are more steady and do not have a lot of peaks and valleys, you will have less adverse effects on your body or c.) you just have not gotten them yet (unfortunate, but true).

Unfortunately, many people with diabetes do have many more complications.

I don’t say I am an expert on the subject, but I am a MSN student who is working with diabetes patients in the hospital and also studying the pharmacology and pathophysiology of diabetes as we speak (for a test I need to take later today). If you would like to know my sources they are: Pharmacology and the Nursing Process by Lilley, Rainforth Collins, Harrington, and Snyder, 2011), and Pharmacology for Nursing, version 4.2 by ATI. p. 441-459).

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By: narayan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/04/12/should_indians/comment-page-2/#comment-270887 narayan Sun, 25 Apr 2010 08:32:08 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6136#comment-270887 <p>For those who have only vague notions about lactose intolerance, the whys and wherefores are explained in layman's language by the anthropologist Marvin Harris in his excellent, informative and readable book <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Sacred-Cow-Abominable-Pig-Touchstone/dp/0671633082/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1272174806&sr=1-3">The Sacred Cow and The Abominable Pig : Riddles of Food and Culture</a>. It's been a long while since I read it so I won't paraphrase the chapter on lactose intolerance. It was an eye opener for me as a sufferer. Curiously, I don't feel the effects on visits to Bangalore, possibly because low-lactose buffalo milk is a major component of packaged milk. I read an article about an Israeli who was marketing camel milk products as having no lactose. The enzyme lactase nullifies the lactose in milk. The lactase pills that are marketed in the US are hopelessly ineffective. Lactase in liquid form works very well but has disappeared from the market, probably sequestered by the dairy industry that then sells lactose-free milk at unconscionably inflated prices. I get my year's supply of liquid lactase from a Punjabi owned laboratory in Canada! There are few other sources in North America.</p> For those who have only vague notions about lactose intolerance, the whys and wherefores are explained in layman’s language by the anthropologist Marvin Harris in his excellent, informative and readable book The Sacred Cow and The Abominable Pig : Riddles of Food and Culture. It’s been a long while since I read it so I won’t paraphrase the chapter on lactose intolerance. It was an eye opener for me as a sufferer. Curiously, I don’t feel the effects on visits to Bangalore, possibly because low-lactose buffalo milk is a major component of packaged milk. I read an article about an Israeli who was marketing camel milk products as having no lactose. The enzyme lactase nullifies the lactose in milk. The lactase pills that are marketed in the US are hopelessly ineffective. Lactase in liquid form works very well but has disappeared from the market, probably sequestered by the dairy industry that then sells lactose-free milk at unconscionably inflated prices. I get my year’s supply of liquid lactase from a Punjabi owned laboratory in Canada! There are few other sources in North America.

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By: narayan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/04/12/should_indians/comment-page-2/#comment-270884 narayan Sun, 25 Apr 2010 07:50:40 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6136#comment-270884 <p>LinZi :</p> <p>Your first response neither negates nor adds much to my statement about the pancreas. As for the last sentence of your second response, I take umbrage and will cut you some slack only if you are an insulin dependent diabetic as I am, or an endocrinologist with several years of practice.</p> <p>At 65, after 15 years on insulin, I have yet to experience any of the effects you describe (sounding as if quoted from literature). The fact that I need to inject large amounts of insulin lead me to believe that my pancreas doesn't produce any. If my sugar levels are not under control it is because I am not a disciplined person, often fall off the wagon, and don't exercise enough.</p> <p>It is clear from your response that you know all the bad effects and their extreme manifestations, however, I must disagree with your implied conclusion that those prognoses are inevitable no matter what. Early diagnosis and aggressive insulin therapy is the only solution generally available and I have my endocrinologist's assurance that 'it works'. Diabetics, today at least, can hope to live long with no symptoms more dire than those of other older people. Whether that goal is attainable depends entirely on the individual's commitment and resolve. You have to take my word that the regimen is irksome at best and impossible for most mortals at worst - and I belong to the latter category.</p> <p>I have also seen and heard of individuals who upon being diagnosed have stopped going to their doctors from some warped rationalization that they can fix 'it' on their own - quacks, home remedies, herbals, do-nothing-about-it, and the like. Your words of wisdom are best spent on them.</p> <p>I suppose what was on my mind when I posted my comment was frustration with the manner in which information and warnings about diabetes is promulgated. Terror / horror / fear approaches distort the nature of the beast and can have unintended effects besides the predictable ones of terror / horror / fear (as evinced by the opening sentence of this post and your second comment). Every one of the growing handful of depictions of diabetics and insulin use I have seen on TV or film have got some or all of it wrong, which further exacerbates public misunderstanding.</p> <p>Where's the message of hope in all of this? I got mine from my endocrinologist. My primary physician, in stark contrast, is a self-avowed pill pusher who is, in my book, no more diabetes-wise than the general educated public.</p> <p>Thanks for your concern regarding 'many shots a day'. When I was on that regimen I didn't find it onerous. Famously, the film 'Memento' shows a diabetic taking insulin intravenously - as an addict might take heroin. Frightening, no? Irresponsible, yes! A better depiction is in the film 'Cobb', if you can see past Ty Cobb's manic state in the scene. The film 'Panic Room' has an extended scene of dubious authenticity that might promote misconceptions.</p> <p>For the past five years I have been on an insulin pump so I need break skin only once in four days. Were I richer I'm sure I could have fancier gadgetry that might provide autonomous control and make life easier. Or perhaps futuristic islet transplants.</p> <p>Still, none of what I've said is of any relevance to the Third World poor. I am amazed to see the nutrition labeling on some packaged Indian foods with the words 'at least XX g' for carbs per serving, and servings expressed in 'g' as if that made life any simpler. An eminent doctor in my family maintains that sugar is the only source of food energy readily available to the Indian poor!</p> <p>If you still think my information on the subject is inaccurate, I will have to insist that you show your own credentials in the matter.</p> LinZi :

Your first response neither negates nor adds much to my statement about the pancreas. As for the last sentence of your second response, I take umbrage and will cut you some slack only if you are an insulin dependent diabetic as I am, or an endocrinologist with several years of practice.

At 65, after 15 years on insulin, I have yet to experience any of the effects you describe (sounding as if quoted from literature). The fact that I need to inject large amounts of insulin lead me to believe that my pancreas doesn’t produce any. If my sugar levels are not under control it is because I am not a disciplined person, often fall off the wagon, and don’t exercise enough.

It is clear from your response that you know all the bad effects and their extreme manifestations, however, I must disagree with your implied conclusion that those prognoses are inevitable no matter what. Early diagnosis and aggressive insulin therapy is the only solution generally available and I have my endocrinologist’s assurance that ‘it works’. Diabetics, today at least, can hope to live long with no symptoms more dire than those of other older people. Whether that goal is attainable depends entirely on the individual’s commitment and resolve. You have to take my word that the regimen is irksome at best and impossible for most mortals at worst – and I belong to the latter category.

I have also seen and heard of individuals who upon being diagnosed have stopped going to their doctors from some warped rationalization that they can fix ‘it’ on their own – quacks, home remedies, herbals, do-nothing-about-it, and the like. Your words of wisdom are best spent on them.

I suppose what was on my mind when I posted my comment was frustration with the manner in which information and warnings about diabetes is promulgated. Terror / horror / fear approaches distort the nature of the beast and can have unintended effects besides the predictable ones of terror / horror / fear (as evinced by the opening sentence of this post and your second comment). Every one of the growing handful of depictions of diabetics and insulin use I have seen on TV or film have got some or all of it wrong, which further exacerbates public misunderstanding.

Where’s the message of hope in all of this? I got mine from my endocrinologist. My primary physician, in stark contrast, is a self-avowed pill pusher who is, in my book, no more diabetes-wise than the general educated public.

Thanks for your concern regarding ‘many shots a day’. When I was on that regimen I didn’t find it onerous. Famously, the film ‘Memento’ shows a diabetic taking insulin intravenously – as an addict might take heroin. Frightening, no? Irresponsible, yes! A better depiction is in the film ‘Cobb’, if you can see past Ty Cobb’s manic state in the scene. The film ‘Panic Room’ has an extended scene of dubious authenticity that might promote misconceptions.

For the past five years I have been on an insulin pump so I need break skin only once in four days. Were I richer I’m sure I could have fancier gadgetry that might provide autonomous control and make life easier. Or perhaps futuristic islet transplants.

Still, none of what I’ve said is of any relevance to the Third World poor. I am amazed to see the nutrition labeling on some packaged Indian foods with the words ‘at least XX g’ for carbs per serving, and servings expressed in ‘g’ as if that made life any simpler. An eminent doctor in my family maintains that sugar is the only source of food energy readily available to the Indian poor!

If you still think my information on the subject is inaccurate, I will have to insist that you show your own credentials in the matter.

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By: LinZi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/04/12/should_indians/comment-page-2/#comment-270877 LinZi Sun, 25 Apr 2010 01:32:18 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6136#comment-270877 <p>Also, with more sugar in the blood, Diabetics are more prone to infection.</p> Also, with more sugar in the blood, Diabetics are more prone to infection.

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By: LinZi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/04/12/should_indians/comment-page-2/#comment-270875 LinZi Sat, 24 Apr 2010 23:30:34 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6136#comment-270875 <blockquote>The only response to it is access to testing, doctors and insulin. The fear factor in government publicity is meant to scare you into awareness and improved lifestyles. </blockquote> <p>Diabetes has a lot more to it then testing,doctors and insulin. Testing blood sugar levels and taking insulin (I'm sure taking many shots a day would not be a problem for you?) is one aspect, but there are MANY more problems with Diabetes. Insulin injections are not a cure.</p> <p>Other problems with Diabetes include poor circulation with leads to sores and lesions, especially on feet and legs. The changes in sugar levels, especially high sugar levels- destroy nerves in the body, creating neuropathy in a person with Diabetes-- this results in loss of sensation, especially in legs and feet but it can spread elsewhere. Loss of sensation can lead to injury and also pressure ulcers (When you do not feel pain and adjust your body your skin can begin to breakdown and form into a ucler or wound).</p> <p>People with Diabetes are also more likely to have cardiac concerns as they get older.</p> <p>I have seen an elder diabetic patient who has both of his legs amputated, has a stage 5+ pressure ulcer on his bottom (he cannot feel well and he cannot move). Stage 5+ means the ulcer is down into the bone and muscle.</p> <p>Narayan, the information you have on diabetes is highly inaccurate.</p> The only response to it is access to testing, doctors and insulin. The fear factor in government publicity is meant to scare you into awareness and improved lifestyles.

Diabetes has a lot more to it then testing,doctors and insulin. Testing blood sugar levels and taking insulin (I’m sure taking many shots a day would not be a problem for you?) is one aspect, but there are MANY more problems with Diabetes. Insulin injections are not a cure.

Other problems with Diabetes include poor circulation with leads to sores and lesions, especially on feet and legs. The changes in sugar levels, especially high sugar levels- destroy nerves in the body, creating neuropathy in a person with Diabetes– this results in loss of sensation, especially in legs and feet but it can spread elsewhere. Loss of sensation can lead to injury and also pressure ulcers (When you do not feel pain and adjust your body your skin can begin to breakdown and form into a ucler or wound).

People with Diabetes are also more likely to have cardiac concerns as they get older.

I have seen an elder diabetic patient who has both of his legs amputated, has a stage 5+ pressure ulcer on his bottom (he cannot feel well and he cannot move). Stage 5+ means the ulcer is down into the bone and muscle.

Narayan, the information you have on diabetes is highly inaccurate.

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By: LinZi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/04/12/should_indians/comment-page-2/#comment-270874 LinZi Sat, 24 Apr 2010 23:22:25 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6136#comment-270874 <blockquote>Diabetics are those whose pancreas are defective, not producing enough insulin, or non-functioning. </blockquote> <p>Type I Diabetes is when there is an acute LACK of insulin (i.e. the pancreas is not working, or not producing enough insulin)</p> <p>Type II Diabetes is a relative insulin imbalance, relative insulin excess, ineffectual insulin or insulin resistance.</p> <p>In Type I something can just trigger the body, and the Beta cells of the pancreas (where insulin is produced) are destroyed. Type I diabetes lack insulin completely and need life-long treatment.</p> <p>Type II Diabetes is when the demand of the body for insulin (i.e. diet) is outweighing the supply. (The pancreas cannot make enough insulin to support the sugar intake). The pancreas will try to increase the supply, but is unable to keep up with the demand (It is like if you use your car everyday the parts will wear out faster than if you use it once a week). In addition, insulin resistance often occurs-- where the insulin is no longer having the same effect as previously. Type II diabetes is progressive (Type I is usually very sudden) and if someone is starting to have the symptoms for type II, lifestyle changes can halt or reverse the progression.</p> <p>There is a third type of diabetes that can occur which is gestational diabetes (in pregnant women) which I won't go into here.</p> Diabetics are those whose pancreas are defective, not producing enough insulin, or non-functioning.

Type I Diabetes is when there is an acute LACK of insulin (i.e. the pancreas is not working, or not producing enough insulin)

Type II Diabetes is a relative insulin imbalance, relative insulin excess, ineffectual insulin or insulin resistance.

In Type I something can just trigger the body, and the Beta cells of the pancreas (where insulin is produced) are destroyed. Type I diabetes lack insulin completely and need life-long treatment.

Type II Diabetes is when the demand of the body for insulin (i.e. diet) is outweighing the supply. (The pancreas cannot make enough insulin to support the sugar intake). The pancreas will try to increase the supply, but is unable to keep up with the demand (It is like if you use your car everyday the parts will wear out faster than if you use it once a week). In addition, insulin resistance often occurs– where the insulin is no longer having the same effect as previously. Type II diabetes is progressive (Type I is usually very sudden) and if someone is starting to have the symptoms for type II, lifestyle changes can halt or reverse the progression.

There is a third type of diabetes that can occur which is gestational diabetes (in pregnant women) which I won’t go into here.

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By: narayan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/04/12/should_indians/comment-page-2/#comment-270873 narayan Sat, 24 Apr 2010 23:05:52 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6136#comment-270873 <p>As I understand it, what one eats, exercise and weight control are important factors in reducing the amount of insulin needed by the body - whether produced by the pancreas or from external sources. Diabetics are those whose pancreas are defective, not producing enough insulin, or non-functioning. Is there any evidence in the medical literature that life-style sins CAUSE the pancreas to fail? Perhaps Razib might care to answer this question. Short of an irrefutable causality, I maintain that diabetes is unavoidable - in the sense that if you are destined to get it, you will get it. Eating fewer sweets, avoiding carbs, being skinny does not guarantee anything. Diabetes is an incurable condition whose long term effects can be staved off through medication and a controlled lifestyle. I have stopped thinking of it as a disease. The only response to it is access to testing, doctors and insulin. The fear factor in government publicity is meant to scare you into awareness and improved lifestyles. This works in affluent countries where doctors and medicine are easily available and affordable, and where lifestyle choices may be taken for granted. What can be done in India and China and other poorer countries? Get richer, get diagnosed early, get medicine! Apart from this, most non-diabetics' knowledge about the condition is the stuff of urban legends (including that of doctors, from my experience). Reading between the lines of the post and some of the comments, I sense that ignorance.</p> As I understand it, what one eats, exercise and weight control are important factors in reducing the amount of insulin needed by the body – whether produced by the pancreas or from external sources. Diabetics are those whose pancreas are defective, not producing enough insulin, or non-functioning. Is there any evidence in the medical literature that life-style sins CAUSE the pancreas to fail? Perhaps Razib might care to answer this question. Short of an irrefutable causality, I maintain that diabetes is unavoidable – in the sense that if you are destined to get it, you will get it. Eating fewer sweets, avoiding carbs, being skinny does not guarantee anything. Diabetes is an incurable condition whose long term effects can be staved off through medication and a controlled lifestyle. I have stopped thinking of it as a disease. The only response to it is access to testing, doctors and insulin. The fear factor in government publicity is meant to scare you into awareness and improved lifestyles. This works in affluent countries where doctors and medicine are easily available and affordable, and where lifestyle choices may be taken for granted. What can be done in India and China and other poorer countries? Get richer, get diagnosed early, get medicine! Apart from this, most non-diabetics’ knowledge about the condition is the stuff of urban legends (including that of doctors, from my experience). Reading between the lines of the post and some of the comments, I sense that ignorance.

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By: psamtani http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2010/04/12/should_indians/comment-page-2/#comment-270870 psamtani Sat, 24 Apr 2010 19:17:46 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6136#comment-270870 <p>Irrelevant, while the consumption of processed food will increase, so will health-consciousness and frequency of exercise</p> Irrelevant, while the consumption of processed food will increase, so will health-consciousness and frequency of exercise

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