Comments on: Tunku Varadarajan: Off the Deep End http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/11/16/tunku_varadaraj/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Varun Shekhar http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/11/16/tunku_varadaraj/comment-page-3/#comment-266283 Varun Shekhar Sun, 27 Dec 2009 16:14:01 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6013#comment-266283 <p>Tunku Varadarajan has written some excellent articles, particularly in the aftermath of 9-11, where he forcefully drew attention to India's role as a severe victim of Islamic terrorism in Kashmir and elsewhere. And how India was helping the war on terror, through intelligence inputs, and economic assistance to Afghanistan, in contrast to Pakistan's support for the Taliban scum. His one disappointing article was on Indian spelling bee winners, where he played on the stereotype of Indian kids learning purely through rote learning. That was a disservice. Otherwise, he's been excellent. An obviously liberal person who sees the essential goodness of Indians and Hindus. That is very needed in the mindless liberal vs conservative divide in America today, where true liberals are supposed to be more sympathetic to Moslems.</p> Tunku Varadarajan has written some excellent articles, particularly in the aftermath of 9-11, where he forcefully drew attention to India’s role as a severe victim of Islamic terrorism in Kashmir and elsewhere. And how India was helping the war on terror, through intelligence inputs, and economic assistance to Afghanistan, in contrast to Pakistan’s support for the Taliban scum. His one disappointing article was on Indian spelling bee winners, where he played on the stereotype of Indian kids learning purely through rote learning. That was a disservice. Otherwise, he’s been excellent. An obviously liberal person who sees the essential goodness of Indians and Hindus. That is very needed in the mindless liberal vs conservative divide in America today, where true liberals are supposed to be more sympathetic to Moslems.

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By: Gustavo http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/11/16/tunku_varadaraj/comment-page-3/#comment-263856 Gustavo Mon, 23 Nov 2009 23:07:26 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6013#comment-263856 <blockquote>Excellent column from Mr Tunuku. Looking at most of the comments made here...most of the mutineers seem to be more concerned about the offense the column would cause to their muslim friends than confronting the truth about the menace of islamic terrorism . Pseudo secularism at its best.</blockquote> <p>Is there an ideology that is causing havoc from the streets of Muslim cities like Peshawar, Karachi, Islamabad, Lahore, Jakarta, Tehran, etc. to the streets where Muslims are a minority like in the streets of New Delhi or Mumbai?</p> <p>Of course.</p> <p>I am Muslim and I am not denying the ideology that has some currency among a certain subset of Muslims.</p> <p>The epicenter of the "War on Terror" is in South Asia, not the Arab Middle East or Arab North Africa!</p> <p>However, the article grossly characterizes Islam in a pejorative light.</p> <p>Many South Asian Muslims look at Hinduism as an abrasion of ancient prejudices and biases. The treatment of widows being condemned to a life of poverty and misery, including child brides is horrendous. The caste prejudicial system and the wanton violence of Hindu mobs ransacking Muslim slums and villages is not very enlightened.</p> <p>India may be an emerging superpower, but Desis of all religious stripes have social issues they must overcome to join the community of "civilized nations." That means abandoning the tribal and communal prejudices of our cultures.</p> Excellent column from Mr Tunuku. Looking at most of the comments made here…most of the mutineers seem to be more concerned about the offense the column would cause to their muslim friends than confronting the truth about the menace of islamic terrorism . Pseudo secularism at its best.

Is there an ideology that is causing havoc from the streets of Muslim cities like Peshawar, Karachi, Islamabad, Lahore, Jakarta, Tehran, etc. to the streets where Muslims are a minority like in the streets of New Delhi or Mumbai?

Of course.

I am Muslim and I am not denying the ideology that has some currency among a certain subset of Muslims.

The epicenter of the “War on Terror” is in South Asia, not the Arab Middle East or Arab North Africa!

However, the article grossly characterizes Islam in a pejorative light.

Many South Asian Muslims look at Hinduism as an abrasion of ancient prejudices and biases. The treatment of widows being condemned to a life of poverty and misery, including child brides is horrendous. The caste prejudicial system and the wanton violence of Hindu mobs ransacking Muslim slums and villages is not very enlightened.

India may be an emerging superpower, but Desis of all religious stripes have social issues they must overcome to join the community of “civilized nations.” That means abandoning the tribal and communal prejudices of our cultures.

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By: kvkr http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/11/16/tunku_varadaraj/comment-page-3/#comment-263818 kvkr Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:29:33 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6013#comment-263818 <p>Excellent column from Mr Tunuku. Looking at most of the comments made here...most of the mutineers seem to be more concerned about the offense the column would cause to their muslim friends than confronting the truth about the menace of islamic terrorism . Pseudo secularism at its best.</p> Excellent column from Mr Tunuku. Looking at most of the comments made here…most of the mutineers seem to be more concerned about the offense the column would cause to their muslim friends than confronting the truth about the menace of islamic terrorism . Pseudo secularism at its best.

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By: Art http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/11/16/tunku_varadaraj/comment-page-3/#comment-263560 Art Sun, 22 Nov 2009 05:10:14 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6013#comment-263560 <p>What concerns me is the concept of "discarded camouflage"in the Vardarajan piece in Forbes (Nov 9, 2009). The overtly racist tone of this article suggests a deeply embedded Hindutva philosophy camouflaged in a Western educated exterior. Since this is not the first time he has expressed such views, though not quite so brazenly before, it might be viewed by psychiatrists as signs of a volcano about to erupt. Is this man about to drop his own camouflage? Let Homeland Security be forewarned!</p> What concerns me is the concept of “discarded camouflage”in the Vardarajan piece in Forbes (Nov 9, 2009). The overtly racist tone of this article suggests a deeply embedded Hindutva philosophy camouflaged in a Western educated exterior. Since this is not the first time he has expressed such views, though not quite so brazenly before, it might be viewed by psychiatrists as signs of a volcano about to erupt. Is this man about to drop his own camouflage? Let Homeland Security be forewarned!

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By: JS http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/11/16/tunku_varadaraj/comment-page-3/#comment-263354 JS Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:14:53 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6013#comment-263354 <p>Wonder why the recent Vande Mataram controversy, in the desh, has not surfaced here in the discussion? A muslim, cleric-led organization in India, seemingly out of the blue, declared that the singing of the aforementioned national song of India is un-Islamic and declared a fatwa against it. The thing that riled me the most was that in the media, where plenty of discussion took place on this, most respected Muslim commentators and clergy, with a few honorable exceptions, actually weakly defended the above organization by saying, in paraphrase, "well, it is un-Islamic but perhaps the timing of this declaration is not good"! I expected that there would be forceful reactions from most muslim intellectuals that would say that "whatever is there in the Koran and Islam, this kind of confrontational attitude over a non-issue, especially after this controversy has been discussed and resolved before, shows something is very wrong with this muslim organization in not wanting to fully engage in civic citizenship of the country and is borderline separatist."</p> <p>Sorry for the longish, maybe orthogonal, comment, but I think it's relevant here, as an example of how seemingly assimilated, well-off muslims still engage, or have to deal with, this type of leadership in free societies.</p> Wonder why the recent Vande Mataram controversy, in the desh, has not surfaced here in the discussion? A muslim, cleric-led organization in India, seemingly out of the blue, declared that the singing of the aforementioned national song of India is un-Islamic and declared a fatwa against it. The thing that riled me the most was that in the media, where plenty of discussion took place on this, most respected Muslim commentators and clergy, with a few honorable exceptions, actually weakly defended the above organization by saying, in paraphrase, “well, it is un-Islamic but perhaps the timing of this declaration is not good”! I expected that there would be forceful reactions from most muslim intellectuals that would say that “whatever is there in the Koran and Islam, this kind of confrontational attitude over a non-issue, especially after this controversy has been discussed and resolved before, shows something is very wrong with this muslim organization in not wanting to fully engage in civic citizenship of the country and is borderline separatist.”

Sorry for the longish, maybe orthogonal, comment, but I think it’s relevant here, as an example of how seemingly assimilated, well-off muslims still engage, or have to deal with, this type of leadership in free societies.

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By: Suzy http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/11/16/tunku_varadaraj/comment-page-3/#comment-263350 Suzy Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:20:16 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6013#comment-263350 <blockquote>These forms of Islam are present in any South Asian community outside the subcontinent be it London, Birmingham, or NYC. I have witnessed it personally and I find it alarming.</blockquote> <p>Gustavo, do you think if someone admits to you that they are frightened by Islam, because of their experiences of seeing really disturbing extremist ideology up close, do you think they are bigots? Because the heat and noise generated by extremist Muslims really is alienating people from Islam in general, because it seems like the prevailing narrative of Islam today is one of something sinister, coercive, intolerant and potentially violent. And this makes them frightened of the religion. And when they articulate this, and do identify the existence of ideologies of supremacism and bigotry that need to be addressed, they are attacked sometimes as being irrational. Do you understand how this can be frustrating, and is actually, really unhelpful to society?</p> These forms of Islam are present in any South Asian community outside the subcontinent be it London, Birmingham, or NYC. I have witnessed it personally and I find it alarming.

Gustavo, do you think if someone admits to you that they are frightened by Islam, because of their experiences of seeing really disturbing extremist ideology up close, do you think they are bigots? Because the heat and noise generated by extremist Muslims really is alienating people from Islam in general, because it seems like the prevailing narrative of Islam today is one of something sinister, coercive, intolerant and potentially violent. And this makes them frightened of the religion. And when they articulate this, and do identify the existence of ideologies of supremacism and bigotry that need to be addressed, they are attacked sometimes as being irrational. Do you understand how this can be frustrating, and is actually, really unhelpful to society?

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By: wunderbar http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/11/16/tunku_varadaraj/comment-page-3/#comment-263135 wunderbar Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:42:25 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6013#comment-263135 <p>Dr. Manzoor Ejaz on Major Hasan. "Major Hasan embraces tradition" http://www.wichaar.com/news/294/ARTICLE/17265/2009-11-14.html</p> <p>A refreshingly cant-free perspective.</p> Dr. Manzoor Ejaz on Major Hasan. “Major Hasan embraces tradition” http://www.wichaar.com/news/294/ARTICLE/17265/2009-11-14.html

A refreshingly cant-free perspective.

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By: tunkling http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/11/16/tunku_varadaraj/comment-page-3/#comment-263079 tunkling Thu, 19 Nov 2009 06:46:41 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6013#comment-263079 <blockquote>even if the political correctness claim is supported by facts that will come out of the forthcoming investigation, the focus of our concern should be the Army protocols for assessing mentally ill service members, not Muslims as a group. </blockquote> <p>that's what tunku does, at the end of the article-</p> <blockquote>So, first, it should be part of the mandatory duty of every member of the armed forces to report any remarks or behavior of fellow service members that could be construed as indicating unfitness for duty for any reason. Second, there should be a duty to report such data up the chain of command, regardless of the assessment of the local commander. Third, there should be a single high-level Pentagon or army department that follows all such cases in real time, whether the potential ground for alarm is sympathy with white supremacism, radical Islamism, endorsement of suicide bombing or simple mental unfitness. Let the first lesson of the Hasan atrocity be this: The U.S. Army has to be a PC-free zone. Our democracy and our way of life depend on it.</blockquote> <p>i agree with the nominalist-</p> <blockquote>Maybe "going Wahabi" would've been more appropriate. How about "going Laden", or "going Taleban", or "going "Jehadi"? Though none of these captures the "throwing off the cloak of integration" point, because all these terms refer to people who defy integration openly. </blockquote> <p>the 'going' bit captures the throwing off of the cloak</p> even if the political correctness claim is supported by facts that will come out of the forthcoming investigation, the focus of our concern should be the Army protocols for assessing mentally ill service members, not Muslims as a group.

that’s what tunku does, at the end of the article-

So, first, it should be part of the mandatory duty of every member of the armed forces to report any remarks or behavior of fellow service members that could be construed as indicating unfitness for duty for any reason. Second, there should be a duty to report such data up the chain of command, regardless of the assessment of the local commander. Third, there should be a single high-level Pentagon or army department that follows all such cases in real time, whether the potential ground for alarm is sympathy with white supremacism, radical Islamism, endorsement of suicide bombing or simple mental unfitness. Let the first lesson of the Hasan atrocity be this: The U.S. Army has to be a PC-free zone. Our democracy and our way of life depend on it.

i agree with the nominalist-

Maybe “going Wahabi” would’ve been more appropriate. How about “going Laden”, or “going Taleban”, or “going “Jehadi”? Though none of these captures the “throwing off the cloak of integration” point, because all these terms refer to people who defy integration openly.

the ‘going’ bit captures the throwing off of the cloak

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By: Going MidEast http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/11/16/tunku_varadaraj/comment-page-3/#comment-263073 Going MidEast Thu, 19 Nov 2009 05:39:01 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6013#comment-263073 <blockquote>Here is an extract from an article written by a Muslim American on the topic</blockquote> <p>Based on that article, it would bear examination if there is an American constituency desirous of following Pakistan in figuratively joining the Middle East. But would a Muslim say from Turkey be interested in such a relocation?</p> Here is an extract from an article written by a Muslim American on the topic

Based on that article, it would bear examination if there is an American constituency desirous of following Pakistan in figuratively joining the Middle East. But would a Muslim say from Turkey be interested in such a relocation?

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By: going wsj http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/11/16/tunku_varadaraj/comment-page-3/#comment-263058 going wsj Thu, 19 Nov 2009 03:16:55 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6013#comment-263058 <blockquote>Not murder like Hasan. "Going Tamil" is meaningless in that context. </blockquote> <p>maybe tamils are not just fifth columns, they are also shiftless enough to get other people to do their dirty work for them.</p> Not murder like Hasan. “Going Tamil” is meaningless in that context.

maybe tamils are not just fifth columns, they are also shiftless enough to get other people to do their dirty work for them.

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