Comments on: Feather Meets Dot in a Brown Faced Way http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/11/02/for_halloween_t/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: kjolley http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/11/02/for_halloween_t/comment-page-1/#comment-262135 kjolley Sat, 14 Nov 2009 16:16:43 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6001#comment-262135 <p>It is ANTM we are watching not National Geograhpic...I think it is a stretch to require them to meet the expectations of everyone when it comes to cross cultural and multi-race mixes. I'm sure Tyra felt qualified doing this, just given her background and amount of travel she has done. And you see the result, its a fashion model's interpretation/stereotype. And I can't say that it is bad but simply a reflection of the truth of what goes into marketing and advertising. In one respect it reflects the dumbing down of our nation but we've never been the strongest in geographic terms, as a nation we're very centralist in thinking. Unfortunately that is not where our economy is headed...how will you know where to outsource to next? Where in the world will you find your next feather/dot Indian to answer and do customer service for your banking needs? And I'm sure they reviewed the potential for controversy but in the end was probably viewed as a good thing for the show. Look at all the chatter its created...and in the end seems like most of us get that it is not a reflection of reality.</p> It is ANTM we are watching not National Geograhpic…I think it is a stretch to require them to meet the expectations of everyone when it comes to cross cultural and multi-race mixes. I’m sure Tyra felt qualified doing this, just given her background and amount of travel she has done. And you see the result, its a fashion model’s interpretation/stereotype. And I can’t say that it is bad but simply a reflection of the truth of what goes into marketing and advertising. In one respect it reflects the dumbing down of our nation but we’ve never been the strongest in geographic terms, as a nation we’re very centralist in thinking. Unfortunately that is not where our economy is headed…how will you know where to outsource to next? Where in the world will you find your next feather/dot Indian to answer and do customer service for your banking needs? And I’m sure they reviewed the potential for controversy but in the end was probably viewed as a good thing for the show. Look at all the chatter its created…and in the end seems like most of us get that it is not a reflection of reality.

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By: Gustavo http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/11/02/for_halloween_t/comment-page-1/#comment-261728 Gustavo Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:39:15 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6001#comment-261728 <p>In America, "East Indian" refers to people of South Asian descent.</p> <p>In America, Indians are confused for being Middle Eastern or "Arab."</p> <p>In Britain, they are dubbed "Asian" while Asian in this country refers to people of East Asian descent (Chinese, Japanese, Korean).</p> <p>I found nothing offensive about the photo shoot, after all, in fashion, regardless if it is in New York or Mumbai, stereotypes are going to be played out.</p> <p>In Bollywood, "white women" are in. This has been the case since the Hindi film industry came into existence. Pakistan's Lollywood is no different, the leading actors and actresses are all fair skin.</p> <p>I consider myself a non-Desi South Asian since I'm of Afghan (Pushtun) ancestry but I am also 1/8 Mississippi Choctaw. The traditional dress of the Choctaw did not include full feather regalia, that is more representative of the Plains people. My people wear traditional garb that is reminiscent of the French Creole and the dress of the Province region of southern France. Obviously, what is deemed "traditional Choctaw dress" was introduced to my people by European missionaries and French fur trappers.</p> <p>Pushtuns are fair skin and can pass for being "white" in this country or "Mediterranean." The majority of the Pushtun community lives in Pakistan's NWT. My mother is a natural dirty blonde, divorced, and gets the attention of Desi men all the time, married or not.</p> <p>When I have been to gay Desi events, I notice men tend to gravitate around me. I'm average in height and built, but it seems my fair skin has a premium assigned to it.</p> <p>Just the thoughts from a South Asian "hapa" with roots in the Hindu Kush mountains of Afghanistan.</p> In America, “East Indian” refers to people of South Asian descent.

In America, Indians are confused for being Middle Eastern or “Arab.”

In Britain, they are dubbed “Asian” while Asian in this country refers to people of East Asian descent (Chinese, Japanese, Korean).

I found nothing offensive about the photo shoot, after all, in fashion, regardless if it is in New York or Mumbai, stereotypes are going to be played out.

In Bollywood, “white women” are in. This has been the case since the Hindi film industry came into existence. Pakistan’s Lollywood is no different, the leading actors and actresses are all fair skin.

I consider myself a non-Desi South Asian since I’m of Afghan (Pushtun) ancestry but I am also 1/8 Mississippi Choctaw. The traditional dress of the Choctaw did not include full feather regalia, that is more representative of the Plains people. My people wear traditional garb that is reminiscent of the French Creole and the dress of the Province region of southern France. Obviously, what is deemed “traditional Choctaw dress” was introduced to my people by European missionaries and French fur trappers.

Pushtuns are fair skin and can pass for being “white” in this country or “Mediterranean.” The majority of the Pushtun community lives in Pakistan’s NWT. My mother is a natural dirty blonde, divorced, and gets the attention of Desi men all the time, married or not.

When I have been to gay Desi events, I notice men tend to gravitate around me. I’m average in height and built, but it seems my fair skin has a premium assigned to it.

Just the thoughts from a South Asian “hapa” with roots in the Hindu Kush mountains of Afghanistan.

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By: Krish**** http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/11/02/for_halloween_t/comment-page-1/#comment-261271 Krish**** Sun, 08 Nov 2009 07:44:31 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6001#comment-261271 <p>I've lived in Hawaii on and off, most recently for about the past two years. I would still be there were it not for getting signals mixed up with an Indian girl and moving back to the west coast. It wasn't just for her. It was for getting back into the rut of 'real' work and convincing the family that the money spent on my college tuition wasn't wasted. Still, I wasn't rich or headed anywhere in life, but I was content. I really don't see the point to life in the mainland. Everyone is so busy and you can't tell if people are coming or going.</p> <p>My ex-gf was a hapa. She and I differed on the definition of hapa. For her, it's a term for those with at least one white parent (and we all know it's the father). For me, it's anyone of mixed descent. The population in Hawaii idealizes a creole standard of beauty. If you ask anyone what their ethnic/racial make-up is the response will surely be at least 3-4 from the following list: Japanese, Korean, Filipino, Haole, Samoan, Puerto Rican, Chinese, etc. Claiming racial purity is seen as going against accepting the creole standard and definitely a violation of the aloha spirit.</p> <p>It was odd seeing brown paint being put on to create the hapa look. Even if you accept my definition over my gf's, hapas are generally seen to be lighter-skinned than the rest of the population.</p> <p>I worked on the set of Lost out there and I once saw the Director become totally fascinated with this little kid who was an extra. He was a mix of Black and something, producing seriously curly blonde hair. Anyways, Hollywood is always on the lookout for the new 'look' and let's face it racial ambiguity has a certain cache these days. The lead singer of the Pussy Cat Dolls is also a hapa from Hawaii.</p> I’ve lived in Hawaii on and off, most recently for about the past two years. I would still be there were it not for getting signals mixed up with an Indian girl and moving back to the west coast. It wasn’t just for her. It was for getting back into the rut of ‘real’ work and convincing the family that the money spent on my college tuition wasn’t wasted. Still, I wasn’t rich or headed anywhere in life, but I was content. I really don’t see the point to life in the mainland. Everyone is so busy and you can’t tell if people are coming or going.

My ex-gf was a hapa. She and I differed on the definition of hapa. For her, it’s a term for those with at least one white parent (and we all know it’s the father). For me, it’s anyone of mixed descent. The population in Hawaii idealizes a creole standard of beauty. If you ask anyone what their ethnic/racial make-up is the response will surely be at least 3-4 from the following list: Japanese, Korean, Filipino, Haole, Samoan, Puerto Rican, Chinese, etc. Claiming racial purity is seen as going against accepting the creole standard and definitely a violation of the aloha spirit.

It was odd seeing brown paint being put on to create the hapa look. Even if you accept my definition over my gf’s, hapas are generally seen to be lighter-skinned than the rest of the population.

I worked on the set of Lost out there and I once saw the Director become totally fascinated with this little kid who was an extra. He was a mix of Black and something, producing seriously curly blonde hair. Anyways, Hollywood is always on the lookout for the new ‘look’ and let’s face it racial ambiguity has a certain cache these days. The lead singer of the Pussy Cat Dolls is also a hapa from Hawaii.

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By: Tina http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/11/02/for_halloween_t/comment-page-1/#comment-260813 Tina Thu, 05 Nov 2009 06:10:17 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6001#comment-260813 <p>Why doesn't ANTM have a more diverse pool of models? Then they wouldn't have to put them in brown face.</p> Why doesn’t ANTM have a more diverse pool of models? Then they wouldn’t have to put them in brown face.

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By: SS http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/11/02/for_halloween_t/comment-page-1/#comment-260767 SS Wed, 04 Nov 2009 23:45:19 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6001#comment-260767 <p>I think we are over-thinking this in racial terms. It's a fashion show, that's all. Most of high-fashion is unwearable (and unbearable) anyway, so... She seems to have made it amply clear that this is not necessarily what people wear in their daily lives. The other fashion episodes on ANTM are not that "realistic" either.</p> <p>As an east Indian, I wasn't offended, seriously... Take is easy. It's a substandard episode but nothing offensive.</p> <p><i>P.S. About the sari -- it's simply six yards of cloth. Drape it any which way you want, no one's coming gunning for you. Enjoy!</i></p> I think we are over-thinking this in racial terms. It’s a fashion show, that’s all. Most of high-fashion is unwearable (and unbearable) anyway, so… She seems to have made it amply clear that this is not necessarily what people wear in their daily lives. The other fashion episodes on ANTM are not that “realistic” either.

As an east Indian, I wasn’t offended, seriously… Take is easy. It’s a substandard episode but nothing offensive.

P.S. About the sari — it’s simply six yards of cloth. Drape it any which way you want, no one’s coming gunning for you. Enjoy!

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By: (par)desi girl http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/11/02/for_halloween_t/comment-page-1/#comment-260748 (par)desi girl Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:53:00 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6001#comment-260748 <p>@ heather (#26): Ok, so I'm sorry I said retarded instead of F***ed up. Probably not the best choice. However: The tyra-fails-at-homelessness segment was funny, but just because Tyra is asinine doesn't mean she can do disrespectful things and get away with them because "she's too dumb to know any better". It paves the way for people who <em>do</em> know better to do asinine things on purpose, and that's a slippery slope.</p> <p>It's probably going to take a couple generations for people to begin identifying people with culture but not race, as the number of biracial/multiethnic people increases. So hopefully in the future someone like SemiDesiMasala can acknowledge part of her culture without feeling like someone will judge her as unauthentic by her looks - basically we need to get away from people identifying looks with culture. Globalization is good sometimes.</p> @ heather (#26): Ok, so I’m sorry I said retarded instead of F***ed up. Probably not the best choice. However: The tyra-fails-at-homelessness segment was funny, but just because Tyra is asinine doesn’t mean she can do disrespectful things and get away with them because “she’s too dumb to know any better”. It paves the way for people who do know better to do asinine things on purpose, and that’s a slippery slope.

It’s probably going to take a couple generations for people to begin identifying people with culture but not race, as the number of biracial/multiethnic people increases. So hopefully in the future someone like SemiDesiMasala can acknowledge part of her culture without feeling like someone will judge her as unauthentic by her looks – basically we need to get away from people identifying looks with culture. Globalization is good sometimes.

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By: Both Dots & Feathers Drink Starbuckies http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/11/02/for_halloween_t/comment-page-1/#comment-260714 Both Dots & Feathers Drink Starbuckies Wed, 04 Nov 2009 19:10:27 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6001#comment-260714 <p>I once took a friend from Jamaica to the "Fascinating India" exhibit and festival at the science center here where they showed that movie put out by the Swami Narain Folk (BAPS) about the life of said Swami (fully circular huge screen so you feel like you're there - what are those theatres called again? you know, when the roller coster scene comes on you feel exactly like you are on it...??...)</p> <p>And after we left he said, "wow. I didn't know the natives of America had such a rich culture".....</p> <p>The ENTIRE TIME we were there he thought the whole thing was about feathers, not dots.</p> <p>Can you believe it?</p> I once took a friend from Jamaica to the “Fascinating India” exhibit and festival at the science center here where they showed that movie put out by the Swami Narain Folk (BAPS) about the life of said Swami (fully circular huge screen so you feel like you’re there – what are those theatres called again? you know, when the roller coster scene comes on you feel exactly like you are on it…??…)

And after we left he said, “wow. I didn’t know the natives of America had such a rich culture”…..

The ENTIRE TIME we were there he thought the whole thing was about feathers, not dots.

Can you believe it?

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By: SemiDesiMasala http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/11/02/for_halloween_t/comment-page-1/#comment-260587 SemiDesiMasala Wed, 04 Nov 2009 01:11:24 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6001#comment-260587 <p>As a biracial person, I find it tiresome when the media (inluding you, Tyra) portray being biracial as some sort of cliche buffet. As though we all dance around our little multi-culti worlds plucking out the trendiest pieces of our respective cultures, throw them together haphazardly and then stand around looking board. Plus, a head-dress with a weird sort-of-a-sari is just sad and strange. What's particularly disappointing for me is that this fashion spread ignores one very important thing: for someone like me, clothing is a lovely way for me to enjoy, embrace and express my two sides. This ANTM project cheapens the whole process. If I put on a sari now, will the world see my light skin and imagine that I am a wannabe model trying to jump on a trend? I really hope not.</p> As a biracial person, I find it tiresome when the media (inluding you, Tyra) portray being biracial as some sort of cliche buffet. As though we all dance around our little multi-culti worlds plucking out the trendiest pieces of our respective cultures, throw them together haphazardly and then stand around looking board. Plus, a head-dress with a weird sort-of-a-sari is just sad and strange. What’s particularly disappointing for me is that this fashion spread ignores one very important thing: for someone like me, clothing is a lovely way for me to enjoy, embrace and express my two sides. This ANTM project cheapens the whole process. If I put on a sari now, will the world see my light skin and imagine that I am a wannabe model trying to jump on a trend? I really hope not.

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By: GurMando http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/11/02/for_halloween_t/comment-page-1/#comment-260573 GurMando Tue, 03 Nov 2009 23:34:40 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6001#comment-260573 <p>The Soup does a great job of ripping into her narcissism and over all delusional activities and statements.</p> <p>http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tyra+the+soup&search_type=&aq=0&oq=tyra+the+</p> <p>more clips:</p> <p>http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/tyra_banks/index.html?franchise=the_soup</p> <p>She's missed many moments to make meaningful statements on race or ignorance ie, when Heidi and Spencer commented on her show that they wanted to adopt an African child and name him Dunk - cuz, you know - all black people are good at basketball, right ?</p> The Soup does a great job of ripping into her narcissism and over all delusional activities and statements.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tyra+the+soup&search_type=&aq=0&oq=tyra+the+

more clips:

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/tyra_banks/index.html?franchise=the_soup

She’s missed many moments to make meaningful statements on race or ignorance ie, when Heidi and Spencer commented on her show that they wanted to adopt an African child and name him Dunk – cuz, you know – all black people are good at basketball, right ?

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By: Taz http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/11/02/for_halloween_t/comment-page-1/#comment-260565 Taz Tue, 03 Nov 2009 22:25:39 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=6001#comment-260565 <blockquote>Is she always this inane?</blockquote> <p>Always. You should watch the Tyra show where she dresses up like a homeless person and pan handles for a few hours.</p> Is she always this inane?

Always. You should watch the Tyra show where she dresses up like a homeless person and pan handles for a few hours.

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