Comments on: No Love Marriage for These Puppies http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/08/18/no_love_marriag/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Yoga Fire http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/08/18/no_love_marriag/comment-page-1/#comment-246663 Yoga Fire Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:47:20 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5905#comment-246663 <blockquote>where they are reluctant to interfere and take responsibility for such a drastic decision regarding a fundamental biological property of life such as reproduction.</blockquote> <p>Who else will take responsibility? The animals act on instinct. They can't make a logical decision about it. They look to us to be the alpha dog who will make the decision for them.</p> where they are reluctant to interfere and take responsibility for such a drastic decision regarding a fundamental biological property of life such as reproduction.

Who else will take responsibility? The animals act on instinct. They can’t make a logical decision about it. They look to us to be the alpha dog who will make the decision for them.

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By: Malathi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/08/18/no_love_marriag/comment-page-1/#comment-246661 Malathi Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:20:19 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5905#comment-246661 <blockquote>Somehow I was under the impression that animal rights activists/supporters were in favor of neutering and spaying dogs and cats (like the SPCA, Humane Society, etc). </blockquote> <blockquote>Malathi - I think it's only the extreme animal rights ppl who disagree with spay/neuter. </blockquote> <p>SPCA, Humane society are examples of Animal Welfare orgs not Animal Rights orgs. But you are right, all well-known animal rights orgs recommend spay/neuter (in fact, some have even advocated for mandatory spay/neuter laws, and AVMA has taken a stance against mandating spay/neuter procedures).</p> <p>Actually, in my original statement in comment 1, I wasn't referring to any particular org--I was referring to the mindset of several ordinary people (people who wouldn't consider themselves as part of the organized AR movement) who feel squeamish about spaying/neutering otherwise healthy, young animals that have distinct personalities. Survey after survey (in the U.S.) has shown us that males dogs are more likely to be intact than female dogs; and dogs owned and cared for by men are more likely to be intact than dogs owned and cared for by women. Follow-up interviews led us to understand that otherwise well-meaning people are expressing sentiments, a philosophy, where they are reluctant to interfere and take responsibility for such a drastic decision regarding a fundamental biological property of life such as reproduction.</p> Somehow I was under the impression that animal rights activists/supporters were in favor of neutering and spaying dogs and cats (like the SPCA, Humane Society, etc).
Malathi – I think it’s only the extreme animal rights ppl who disagree with spay/neuter.

SPCA, Humane society are examples of Animal Welfare orgs not Animal Rights orgs. But you are right, all well-known animal rights orgs recommend spay/neuter (in fact, some have even advocated for mandatory spay/neuter laws, and AVMA has taken a stance against mandating spay/neuter procedures).

Actually, in my original statement in comment 1, I wasn’t referring to any particular org–I was referring to the mindset of several ordinary people (people who wouldn’t consider themselves as part of the organized AR movement) who feel squeamish about spaying/neutering otherwise healthy, young animals that have distinct personalities. Survey after survey (in the U.S.) has shown us that males dogs are more likely to be intact than female dogs; and dogs owned and cared for by men are more likely to be intact than dogs owned and cared for by women. Follow-up interviews led us to understand that otherwise well-meaning people are expressing sentiments, a philosophy, where they are reluctant to interfere and take responsibility for such a drastic decision regarding a fundamental biological property of life such as reproduction.

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By: gm http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/08/18/no_love_marriag/comment-page-1/#comment-246614 gm Sat, 22 Aug 2009 07:28:00 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5905#comment-246614 <p>Somehow I was under the impression that animal rights activists/supporters were in favor of neutering and spaying dogs and cats (like the SPCA, Humane Society, etc).</p> <p>Interesting post though. Cute as well!</p> Somehow I was under the impression that animal rights activists/supporters were in favor of neutering and spaying dogs and cats (like the SPCA, Humane Society, etc).

Interesting post though. Cute as well!

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By: Filmiholic http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/08/18/no_love_marriag/comment-page-1/#comment-246577 Filmiholic Fri, 21 Aug 2009 05:19:58 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5905#comment-246577 <p>Malathi,</p> <p>If you would, please, could you contact me backchannel please (filmiholicATgmailDOTyouknowtherest)?</p> <p>cheers,<br /> Maria</p> Malathi,

If you would, please, could you contact me backchannel please (filmiholicATgmailDOTyouknowtherest)?

cheers,
Maria

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By: Malathi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/08/18/no_love_marriag/comment-page-1/#comment-246549 Malathi Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:45:37 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5905#comment-246549 <p>Hmm, I have to take back my words on the average pomeranian's disposition according to the temperament information on <a href="http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Pomeranian_%28dog%29">this site</a>.</p> <p>Here is some explanation about the pomeranian's popularity in the US.</p> <blockquote>The Pomeranian has been among the most popular of dog breeds, consistently in the top 15 of registered AKCAmerican Kennel Club It came in at #13 in the most recently released 2008 rankings having attained the same ranking in 2007 and 2003. In a way, the Pomeranian is becoming an "accessory" or a "prop" to many people, notably women and especially celebrities. The breed also shows up regularly on television shows and commercials. The dog's diminutive size, ease of care in regards to manage due to its stature and good overall demeanor makes for a very likeable dog. A good Pomeranian, because of the dog's aforementioned traits, makes for a popular pet and is also a prize by many an owner.</blockquote> <p><a href="http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Pomeranian_%28dog%29">[Link] </a></p> Hmm, I have to take back my words on the average pomeranian’s disposition according to the temperament information on this site.

Here is some explanation about the pomeranian’s popularity in the US.

The Pomeranian has been among the most popular of dog breeds, consistently in the top 15 of registered AKCAmerican Kennel Club It came in at #13 in the most recently released 2008 rankings having attained the same ranking in 2007 and 2003. In a way, the Pomeranian is becoming an “accessory” or a “prop” to many people, notably women and especially celebrities. The breed also shows up regularly on television shows and commercials. The dog’s diminutive size, ease of care in regards to manage due to its stature and good overall demeanor makes for a very likeable dog. A good Pomeranian, because of the dog’s aforementioned traits, makes for a popular pet and is also a prize by many an owner.

[Link]

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By: Malathi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/08/18/no_love_marriag/comment-page-1/#comment-246548 Malathi Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:11:36 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5905#comment-246548 <p>So Louiecypher, are you an aristocrat? :)</p> <blockquote>The Rajapalayam is an Indian sighthound. It was the companion of the royalty and the aristocracy in Southern India, particularly in the town Rajapalayam fro mwhere it gets its name.</blockquote> <p><a href="http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Rajapalayam_%28dog%29">[Link]</a></p> <p>More seriously, do you know if your extended family is/was involved in the breed's comeback (it was endangered at some point)? I have always wondered why the Rajapalayam breed alone lucked out in some ways compared with the Combai, the Chippiparai and the Kanni but now that I am a mother myself I can more honestly appreciate why ordinary people/families think twice before going in for one-master dogs. (The Rajapalayam, despite being a hound, is <a href="http://www.thehindu.com/thehindu/mp/2005/01/10/stories/2005011000090100.htm">apparently also a good family dog</a>). (But then again, the GSD, is a one-master dog too. And the lhasa apsos and the pomeranians were not exactly selected for their good temperaments. Yet they are unquestionably accepted as family-dogs.)</p> <p>Hopefully, Shining India effect will extend to its native animal breeds as well as species.</p> So Louiecypher, are you an aristocrat? :)

The Rajapalayam is an Indian sighthound. It was the companion of the royalty and the aristocracy in Southern India, particularly in the town Rajapalayam fro mwhere it gets its name.

[Link]

More seriously, do you know if your extended family is/was involved in the breed’s comeback (it was endangered at some point)? I have always wondered why the Rajapalayam breed alone lucked out in some ways compared with the Combai, the Chippiparai and the Kanni but now that I am a mother myself I can more honestly appreciate why ordinary people/families think twice before going in for one-master dogs. (The Rajapalayam, despite being a hound, is apparently also a good family dog). (But then again, the GSD, is a one-master dog too. And the lhasa apsos and the pomeranians were not exactly selected for their good temperaments. Yet they are unquestionably accepted as family-dogs.)

Hopefully, Shining India effect will extend to its native animal breeds as well as species.

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By: bess http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/08/18/no_love_marriag/comment-page-1/#comment-246540 bess Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:47:28 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5905#comment-246540 <blockquote>In contrast my relatives would pet their farm dogs but admonish them with a "Dey !" if they started to lick them...no emergency full body immersions though.</blockquote> <p>I grew up in the red south seeing bumper stickers that said, "My wife you can have but my dog never" or "The more people I meet the more I love my dog". Does the religion we grow up in, play a role in how we veiw dogs? I remember hearing a Biblical parable about a leper whose wounds were licked by dogs - we were told (misinformed) as children that dog saliva contained a healing enzyme. Along those lines...<a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=3VdZIhpQf6oC&dq=dogs+in+parables&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=n-64P53H_i&sig=sfdpDXbPkkpgJcf5ZDDNPI38QT0&hl=en&ei=KmCNSs7KCISBtweqtqTzDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4#v=onepage&q=&f=false">look at this</a>.</p> <p>Just wondering.</p> In contrast my relatives would pet their farm dogs but admonish them with a “Dey !” if they started to lick them…no emergency full body immersions though.

I grew up in the red south seeing bumper stickers that said, “My wife you can have but my dog never” or “The more people I meet the more I love my dog”. Does the religion we grow up in, play a role in how we veiw dogs? I remember hearing a Biblical parable about a leper whose wounds were licked by dogs – we were told (misinformed) as children that dog saliva contained a healing enzyme. Along those lines…look at this.

Just wondering.

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By: louiecypher http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/08/18/no_love_marriag/comment-page-1/#comment-246523 louiecypher Thu, 20 Aug 2009 06:34:30 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5905#comment-246523 <p>It's not a just a Muslim aversion to dogs in India. My uncles had several friends who were the sons of village pujaris (i.e. completely unwesternized & poor), if a pup so much as licked their toe they would jump up and bathe again. No joke. But they had no hatred of dogs and would feed strays. In contrast my relatives would pet their farm dogs but admonish them with a "Dey !" if they started to lick them...no emergency full body immersions though. In short, I think all Hindu communities used to view dogs as somewhat polluting, but for some the perceived danger is greater</p> It’s not a just a Muslim aversion to dogs in India. My uncles had several friends who were the sons of village pujaris (i.e. completely unwesternized & poor), if a pup so much as licked their toe they would jump up and bathe again. No joke. But they had no hatred of dogs and would feed strays. In contrast my relatives would pet their farm dogs but admonish them with a “Dey !” if they started to lick them…no emergency full body immersions though. In short, I think all Hindu communities used to view dogs as somewhat polluting, but for some the perceived danger is greater

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By: Lupus Solitarius http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/08/18/no_love_marriag/comment-page-1/#comment-246508 Lupus Solitarius Thu, 20 Aug 2009 00:54:29 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5905#comment-246508 <p>Malathi, I have always had a soft corner for Vets. Good to know that you are one :) My family has always believed in keeping dogs. And for some reason, all these dogs have been 'mixed breeds'. I attribute it to inverse snobbery. Being from an army family, these dogs were always free to roam, and had vast tracts to colonise. A notable one was an uber alpha male, and spawned a small community of clones before he was neutered (I fought tooth and nail against it). When we were posted in Nagaland,I was genuinely afraid for his safety (he was jet black). I feel closer to dogs than I do to human beings. Perhaps my handle reflects my canine-philic sentiments.</p> Malathi, I have always had a soft corner for Vets. Good to know that you are one :) My family has always believed in keeping dogs. And for some reason, all these dogs have been ‘mixed breeds’. I attribute it to inverse snobbery. Being from an army family, these dogs were always free to roam, and had vast tracts to colonise. A notable one was an uber alpha male, and spawned a small community of clones before he was neutered (I fought tooth and nail against it). When we were posted in Nagaland,I was genuinely afraid for his safety (he was jet black). I feel closer to dogs than I do to human beings. Perhaps my handle reflects my canine-philic sentiments.

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By: Malathi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/08/18/no_love_marriag/comment-page-1/#comment-246506 Malathi Thu, 20 Aug 2009 00:31:59 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5905#comment-246506 <p>You can see the variation in the umbrella term 'Muslim culture' by looking at which countries have a sizeable community of small-animal veterinarians (without a market for their services, they will not survive). I tried searching for statistics but couldn't find it, so I'll venture and guess based on my personal experience.</p> <p>Where I went to vet school, approximately 100 students per graduating class were from Africa, Latin America, middle east and South Asia. (Some countries from each of these regions were not represented; other countries from other regions were included but this works as a general representative list) About 50 to 70 in each class were Muslims. So my personal observations are based on a sample size of about 300 Muslim students. But I also knew what was going on in other schools in other cities--we international students traveled quite a bit and networked.</p> <p>Muslim guys (and occassionally a few gals) from Algeria, Morocco, Lebanon, Nigeria will be interested in small animal medicine including canine medicine. Guys from Mali, Yemen, Sudan (except for the one diplomat's son) we had will sooner hit the instructor than go near a dog. Our professors were usually ones with international experience, so they sometimes tailored the curriculum based on the students. Jordan -- depended on the individual. Perhaps there was a (socioeconomic) class factor at play too.</p> <p>There is a dramatic, telling scene in <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_of_Heaven">Majid Majidi's Children of Heaven </a>where the character (from the poor part of the Tehran) is so afraid of the barking guard dog in one of the huge mansions in the rich part of Tehran. The dog was one of the tools for the narrative; to contrast the class-based cultural clashes within Iran.</p> You can see the variation in the umbrella term ‘Muslim culture’ by looking at which countries have a sizeable community of small-animal veterinarians (without a market for their services, they will not survive). I tried searching for statistics but couldn’t find it, so I’ll venture and guess based on my personal experience.

Where I went to vet school, approximately 100 students per graduating class were from Africa, Latin America, middle east and South Asia. (Some countries from each of these regions were not represented; other countries from other regions were included but this works as a general representative list) About 50 to 70 in each class were Muslims. So my personal observations are based on a sample size of about 300 Muslim students. But I also knew what was going on in other schools in other cities–we international students traveled quite a bit and networked.

Muslim guys (and occassionally a few gals) from Algeria, Morocco, Lebanon, Nigeria will be interested in small animal medicine including canine medicine. Guys from Mali, Yemen, Sudan (except for the one diplomat’s son) we had will sooner hit the instructor than go near a dog. Our professors were usually ones with international experience, so they sometimes tailored the curriculum based on the students. Jordan — depended on the individual. Perhaps there was a (socioeconomic) class factor at play too.

There is a dramatic, telling scene in Majid Majidi’s Children of Heaven where the character (from the poor part of the Tehran) is so afraid of the barking guard dog in one of the huge mansions in the rich part of Tehran. The dog was one of the tools for the narrative; to contrast the class-based cultural clashes within Iran.

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