Yay . Why, fank you.

but then you lost me. I’m perplexed by your equating abortion with honor killing; seems like two completely different hot button issues to me.

Well, in my mind, they’re both ways for people to edit difficult and controversial situations they weren’t prepared for out of their lives.

“At least SA honor killings are carried out against people who have fully formed limbs, lungs, and access to a weapon.” I seem to remember the last one I read about in Pakistan involved a teenage girl who had been raped being killed by her father and brothers– limbs, lungs, and a weapon would have been little use.

They’re a lot more useful than the amniotic sac, wouldn’t you say?

Sorry I don’t have the notation. From my reading of the dailies, my anecdotal observation would be that women and girls are murdered by family/ community members in far greater numbers than men. Therefore it is a DV issue, not a when does life begin issue.

It is illogical, the killing of only women because of their engaging in sex acts with inappropriate participants. If killing criminals in one’s family is their idea of justice, then justice has not been served if only one criminal of the duo is killed. I think it’s more of a vigilante sort of thing rather than domestic violence. What :p!?!? “when does life begin” never came into it :p!

I won’t speak beyond my own experience, which is of college educated, middle income, WASP, New England, US extraction. Of the three close friends that I have known to have abortions through the years (I am 41), all have decided to terminate the pregnancy after much thought for one reason. Because they couldn’t financially afford to and the men that impregnated them could/ would not be fathers to the children, not as a part of an ‘hedonistic’ lifestyle. All have had children since, that are loved and wanted.

Judging from what you told me about your economic level, I am going to assume that your friends are around that same level. When you sacrifice a baby so that you don’t have to reduce yourself to eating Cup Noodles for 18 years and making the best of a one-parent situation you yourself are 50% responsible for, what is the word for that, if not hedonism?

My personal experience (I’m not counting the various spankings, pinches, or smacks doled out) with DV within my extended family has been that the stressor that pushes people over the edge into violence, physical and verbal, is financial. Usually alcohol is involved as well.

I agree with the alcohol part. That’s the case with members of my own extended family, and it saddens me that they don’t want to admit that alcohol played a role.

Neither I nor my mother or siblings was ever a target, but as a child I had been terrified of my father’s rages several times. Knowing myself better, I know that that tension still effects my relationships today.

That’s very unfortunate, to have to carry that emotional mark with you into adulthood. Sometimes people don’t realise the long-term effects of the things we do and say on children.

Within the family, DV covers the spread of education backgrounds. The three friends I’ve known to have been sexually assaulted (2 women, 1man) were all attacked as children/teenagers. The women were raped by family members, the man by a priest.

In your personal opinion, would you say the effects of sexual assault are worse for a man or a woman, assuming both were assaulted as young adults?

Extrapolating from these experiences, and Dr A’s, I think the more people would ask or talk about these things, the more they would find out that it happens in all families, across all cultures. If it is more predominant in one over the other, I couldn’t say. One observation I will make: An interest in SA cinema has led me to view 250+ Hindi/Tamil/Telugu films in the last 15 months and portrayals of violence against women and children in all strata of society is commonplace within these films.

250!?! Wow, that’s dedication :p! Hindi movies are so misleading though. If I’d nhever met an Indian, I’d think they were the most flamboyant, brown versions of Ginger Rogers/Fred Astaire ever to have walked the Earth. I’ve found that in real life, they’re total let-downs in that regard :p. What say you?

One could argue in fact that emotional abuse is particularly horrible, because it’s hard to figure out that it’s even happening, as it leaves no marks on the body while having often life-long detrimental psychological effects.

In any case, I looked up some resources of discipline and hitting and that led me to guidance provided by the American Academy of Pediatrics. It says that the type of behavior you’re describing is very common but argues that it’s not helpful and in many ways harmful. It’s just one piece, so take it for what it is, but here is the part I found most effective in arguing that hitting is not a good idea:

Parents are more likely to use aversive techniques of discipline when they are angry or irritable, depressed, fatigued, and stressed. In 44% of those surveyed, corporal punishment was used >= 50% of the time because the parent had lost it. Approximately 85% expressed moderate to high anger, remorse, and agitation while punishing their children.21 These findings challenge most the notion that parents can spank in a calm, planned manner. It is best not to administer any punishments while in a state of anger. Spanking of young children is highly correlated with continued spanking of school and adolescent children.20 More than half of 13- and 14-year-olds are still being hit an average eight times per year.17 Parents who have relied on spanking do not seem to shift strategies when the risks of detrimental effects increase with developmental age, as has been argued. Spanking of preschool boys by fathers with whom the child identified only moderately or little resulted in increased aggressive behavior by those children.17 Corporal punishment in two-parent, middle class families occurred weekly in 25%, was associated with the use of an object occasionally in 35% and half of the time in 17%, caused considerable pain at times in 12%, and inflicted lasting marks at times in 5%.21 Thus, striking children in the abusive range is neither rare nor confined to families of lower socioeconomic class, as has been asserted. Although children may view spanking as justified and symbolic of parental concern for them, they rate spanking as causing some or much pain in more than half of cases and generally experience anger at the adult as a result. Despite this, children come to accept spanking as a parent’s right at an early age, making changes in adult acceptance of spanking more difficult.21 The more children are hit, the more anger they report as adults, the more they hit their own children when they are parents, the more likely they are to approve of hitting and to actually hit their spouses, and the greater their marital conflict.20 Although 93% of parents justify spanking, 85% say that they would rather not if they had an alternative in which they believed.21 One study found that 54% of mothers said that spanking was the wrong thing to have done in at least half of the times they used it.20 This ambivalence likely results in inconsistent use, which limits further its effectiveness as a teaching tool. Although spanking has been shown to be effective as a back-up to enforce a time-out location, it was not more effective than use of a barrier as an alternative.32 Even controlling for baseline antisocial behavior, the more 3- to 6-year-old children were hit, the worse their behavior when assessed 2 years later.20 Actions causing pain such as spanking can acquire a positive value rather than the intended adversive value.31 Children who expect pain may actually seek it through escalating misbehaviors. Parents who spank are more likely to use other forms of corporal punishment and a greater variety of verbal and other punitive methods.22 When punishment fails, parents who rely on it tend to increase the intensity of its use rather than to change strategies.

Treat your kid like a darling for the first five years. For the next five years, scold them. By the time they turn sixteen, treat them like a friend. Your grown up children are your best friends.

I agree with your point on communication averting violence, but then you lost me. I’m perplexed by your equating abortion with honor killing; seems like two completely different hot button issues to me.

“At least SA honor killings are carried out against people who have fully formed limbs, lungs, and access to a weapon.” I seem to remember the last one I read about in Pakistan involved a teenage girl who had been raped being killed by her father and brothers– limbs, lungs, and a weapon would have been little use. Sorry I don’t have the notation. From my reading of the dailies, my anecdotal observation would be that women and girls are murdered by family/ community members in far greater numbers than men. Therefore it is a DV issue, not a when does life begin issue.

I won’t speak beyond my own experience, which is of college educated, middle income, WASP, New England, US extraction. Of the three close friends that I have known to have abortions through the years (I am 41), all have decided to terminate the pregnancy after much thought for one reason. Because they couldn’t financially afford to and the men that impregnated them could/ would not be fathers to the children, not as a part of an ‘hedonistic’ lifestyle. All have had children since, that are loved and wanted.

My personal experience (I’m not counting the various spankings, pinches, or smacks doled out) with DV within my extended family has been that the stressor that pushes people over the edge into violence, physical and verbal, is financial. Usually alcohol is involved as well. Neither I nor my mother or siblings was ever a target, but as a child I had been terrified of my father’s rages several times. Knowing myself better, I know that that tension still effects my relationships today. Within the family, DV covers the spread of education backgrounds. The three friends I’ve known to have been sexually assaulted (2 women, 1man) were all attacked as children/teenagers. The women were raped by family members, the man by a priest.

Extrapolating from these experiences, and Dr A’s, I think the more people would ask or talk about these things, the more they would find out that it happens in all families, across all cultures. If it is more predominant in one over the other, I couldn’t say. One observation I will make: An interest in SA cinema has led me to view 250+ Hindi/Tamil/Telugu films in the last 15 months and portrayals of violence against women and children in all strata of society is commonplace within these films.

I agree that we need to focus on finding conextually relevent solutions. Also, I agree that routinely lowering someone’s confidence definitely qualifies as emotional abuse. I have many examples in my own extended family about how this lowered confidence goes on to mess up people’s entire lives even in their adulthood.

That’s nonsense if you wanted to define it. Even going by the usual definition of equating any Hinduphilic comment to “soft/hard Hindu right politics” there has been nothing like that so far on this post. That can only mean that you are being Bachmanesque in pointing to things not in evidence. Given your very lazy equivocation and open Hinduphobic attitude – hat tip to Ponnniyin Selvan – your thinking needs to be deconstructed first and laid out bare.

How many times in the conversations with your friends / erlatives / acquaintances have you come across the term?. and 5 people out of how many?.

Does that justify this

Having mistresses is a very common, and loosely socially sanctioned, practice in Tamilnadu among people of various economic strata.

well, she gets around