Comments on: A Blip on No One’s Radar: Tanveer Ahmad http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/07/06/a_blip_on_no_on/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Nanda Kishore http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/07/06/a_blip_on_no_on/comment-page-2/#comment-243637 Nanda Kishore Fri, 10 Jul 2009 22:10:26 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5848#comment-243637 <p>It is apparently way too much for some people to even feel a tinge of compassion for a man who died young. I am numbed by some of the comments... and then we hear from these worthies how other people are judgmental.</p> It is apparently way too much for some people to even feel a tinge of compassion for a man who died young. I am numbed by some of the comments… and then we hear from these worthies how other people are judgmental.

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By: Walked Over http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/07/06/a_blip_on_no_on/comment-page-2/#comment-243479 Walked Over Thu, 09 Jul 2009 04:09:25 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5848#comment-243479 <p>Not to split hairs, but Tanveen Ahmad was actually a bigamist. The use of the term Polygamy/Polygamist is normally associated with a person who marries several women who are well aware of each other.</p> <p>To refer to Mr Ahmad as a polygamist is too kind. He was a bigamist i.e. he practiced bigamy.</p> Not to split hairs, but Tanveen Ahmad was actually a bigamist. The use of the term Polygamy/Polygamist is normally associated with a person who marries several women who are well aware of each other.

To refer to Mr Ahmad as a polygamist is too kind. He was a bigamist i.e. he practiced bigamy.

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By: Rakesh http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/07/06/a_blip_on_no_on/comment-page-2/#comment-243454 Rakesh Wed, 08 Jul 2009 18:20:08 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5848#comment-243454 <blockquote>Yes, and equal protection didn't apply once either. The point is not what the law currently is but whether or not the law is a) decent, fair and humane and b) internally consistent. Clearly putting someone in jail for a crime and then holding them in jail after their sentence is over and then deporting them is punishing someone at least twice if not three times for the same crime and would, by any common sense standard, violate the spirit of the protection against double jeopardy.</blockquote> <p>Reasonable people can and will disagree on what is decent, fair, and humane. As law in the U.S. is based on precedent, it tends to be internally consistent. Is your complaint against holding a person in jail or against deportation? The legal cases say that holding a person (in jail, in a courtroom, in a DHS waiting area, etc) in order to ensure that person doesn't disappear or forfeit bond is not punishment in and of itself. The reality is that many people who are told to leave under an order of deportation or who agree to voluntarily depart simply disappear, hence the need for posting a bond or holding the individual.</p> <p>Being deported isn't considered punishment under the law. The point IS what the law currently is. Changing it is a good idea too.</p> Yes, and equal protection didn’t apply once either. The point is not what the law currently is but whether or not the law is a) decent, fair and humane and b) internally consistent. Clearly putting someone in jail for a crime and then holding them in jail after their sentence is over and then deporting them is punishing someone at least twice if not three times for the same crime and would, by any common sense standard, violate the spirit of the protection against double jeopardy.

Reasonable people can and will disagree on what is decent, fair, and humane. As law in the U.S. is based on precedent, it tends to be internally consistent. Is your complaint against holding a person in jail or against deportation? The legal cases say that holding a person (in jail, in a courtroom, in a DHS waiting area, etc) in order to ensure that person doesn’t disappear or forfeit bond is not punishment in and of itself. The reality is that many people who are told to leave under an order of deportation or who agree to voluntarily depart simply disappear, hence the need for posting a bond or holding the individual.

Being deported isn’t considered punishment under the law. The point IS what the law currently is. Changing it is a good idea too.

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By: Manju http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/07/06/a_blip_on_no_on/comment-page-2/#comment-243451 Manju Wed, 08 Jul 2009 17:13:01 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5848#comment-243451 <p>i thought double jeopardy referred to trying someone for the same crime more than once after they've been found not guilty, a necessary govt restriction b/c the state has unlimited resources and can then just use endless prosecution as a replacement for punishment. jailing and deporting someone after their sentence is completed just appears to be part of the sentence, or a sentace for another offense (being in hte country illegally).</p> i thought double jeopardy referred to trying someone for the same crime more than once after they’ve been found not guilty, a necessary govt restriction b/c the state has unlimited resources and can then just use endless prosecution as a replacement for punishment. jailing and deporting someone after their sentence is completed just appears to be part of the sentence, or a sentace for another offense (being in hte country illegally).

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By: Dr Amonymous http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/07/06/a_blip_on_no_on/comment-page-2/#comment-243450 Dr Amonymous Wed, 08 Jul 2009 16:49:59 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5848#comment-243450 <blockquote>The Double Jeopardy Clause does not apply to proceedings to deport an individual. See Zuniga v Greene (1999) among other cases.</blockquote> <p>Yes, and equal protection didn't apply once either. The point is not what the law currently is but whether or not the law is a) decent, fair and humane and b) internally consistent. Clearly putting someone in jail for a crime and then holding them in jail after their sentence is over and then deporting them is punishing someone at least twice if not three times for the same crime and would, by any common sense standard, violate the spirit of the protection against double jeopardy.</p> The Double Jeopardy Clause does not apply to proceedings to deport an individual. See Zuniga v Greene (1999) among other cases.

Yes, and equal protection didn’t apply once either. The point is not what the law currently is but whether or not the law is a) decent, fair and humane and b) internally consistent. Clearly putting someone in jail for a crime and then holding them in jail after their sentence is over and then deporting them is punishing someone at least twice if not three times for the same crime and would, by any common sense standard, violate the spirit of the protection against double jeopardy.

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By: kumar http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/07/06/a_blip_on_no_on/comment-page-1/#comment-243441 kumar Wed, 08 Jul 2009 10:33:44 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5848#comment-243441 <p>"Over Valued American Dream is not for Every One " Let Americans be Happy with Hispanic Drugs ,Janitors ,Chinese Cheap Labor ,Indian/Chinese/European Middle Class Software Engineers . Tanveer was not an Angel Niether is USCIS a Charity . USCIS System Stinkkkks So Does the Societies in USA lot of Cosmopolitian But Selfish Neighbourhoods !!! There is NO LOVE AFTER 911 XENOPHOBIA RULES USA NOW SO DOES THE ECONOMY DOOM!!! !!!Better be a Hero in a Galli of YOUR Desh !!!</p> “Over Valued American Dream is not for Every One ” Let Americans be Happy with Hispanic Drugs ,Janitors ,Chinese Cheap Labor ,Indian/Chinese/European Middle Class Software Engineers . Tanveer was not an Angel Niether is USCIS a Charity . USCIS System Stinkkkks So Does the Societies in USA lot of Cosmopolitian But Selfish Neighbourhoods !!! There is NO LOVE AFTER 911 XENOPHOBIA RULES USA NOW SO DOES THE ECONOMY DOOM!!! !!!Better be a Hero in a Galli of YOUR Desh !!!

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By: phillygrrl http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/07/06/a_blip_on_no_on/comment-page-1/#comment-243434 phillygrrl Wed, 08 Jul 2009 07:50:03 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5848#comment-243434 <p>How ironic the title, in light of the recent comments. I see firsthand the resentment "legal" immigrants heap on those who they suspect of somehow bypassing/ignoring immigrant laws. (This comes from hearing my white collar boyfriend who works here on an H1 visa moan and groan about cabby drivers.) Perhaps if these folks stopped transferring their anger towards the American immigration system onto their hapless countrymen, and lobbied their legislators, there would be more progress. Not the point, however. I digress.</p> <p>This man, whoever he was, whatever he did, died alone in conditions that someone with a better attorney might have successfully fought. He came to this country for whatever reason, but it can be assumed he hoped for better things for himself and his family. The system didn't work for him. It should have. He worked hard. He tried to defend himself. He was punished for this. He died four years ago. Where was his NAACP? What gaps led to him being ignored by not only the South Asian community, but everyone else? If he can be forgotten so quickly, it's just as likely we can be so forgotten. After all, what's another dead desi.</p> <p>But carry on with the stone-casting. When your kid gets pulled over on the NJ turnpike...you'll be the first one to call the ACLU. Amuses me how we want our heroes to be saints. Perhaps you should google "Martin Luther King Jr., John F. Kennedy, etc if you're looking for the flawless man.</p> How ironic the title, in light of the recent comments. I see firsthand the resentment “legal” immigrants heap on those who they suspect of somehow bypassing/ignoring immigrant laws. (This comes from hearing my white collar boyfriend who works here on an H1 visa moan and groan about cabby drivers.) Perhaps if these folks stopped transferring their anger towards the American immigration system onto their hapless countrymen, and lobbied their legislators, there would be more progress. Not the point, however. I digress.

This man, whoever he was, whatever he did, died alone in conditions that someone with a better attorney might have successfully fought. He came to this country for whatever reason, but it can be assumed he hoped for better things for himself and his family. The system didn’t work for him. It should have. He worked hard. He tried to defend himself. He was punished for this. He died four years ago. Where was his NAACP? What gaps led to him being ignored by not only the South Asian community, but everyone else? If he can be forgotten so quickly, it’s just as likely we can be so forgotten. After all, what’s another dead desi.

But carry on with the stone-casting. When your kid gets pulled over on the NJ turnpike…you’ll be the first one to call the ACLU. Amuses me how we want our heroes to be saints. Perhaps you should google “Martin Luther King Jr., John F. Kennedy, etc if you’re looking for the flawless man.

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By: wunderbar http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/07/06/a_blip_on_no_on/comment-page-1/#comment-243420 wunderbar Tue, 07 Jul 2009 22:45:45 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5848#comment-243420 <p>Of course I speak for myself.</p> <p>But perhaps I don't need to, since I have <em>you</em> to speak for me. LOL.</p> Of course I speak for myself.

But perhaps I don’t need to, since I have you to speak for me. LOL.

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By: Jay http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/07/06/a_blip_on_no_on/comment-page-1/#comment-243418 Jay Tue, 07 Jul 2009 22:31:55 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5848#comment-243418 <p>" if he had been a native born racist redneck participating in some supremacist organization, chances are that he wouldn't be receiving the same level of sympathy from the same people."</p> <p>Your statement is a reflection on you, wunderbar. You speak for noone but yourself and know nothing of the background of other commenters. You go from saying, "chances are," to in the next sentence making it a statement of fact: "So this is not entirely about conditions of detention - it is about how one feels about immigration - legal and illegal and "other" perpipheral markers of identity." It is about conditions of confinement. For YOU, it is about "'other' peripheral markers of identity."</p> ” if he had been a native born racist redneck participating in some supremacist organization, chances are that he wouldn’t be receiving the same level of sympathy from the same people.”

Your statement is a reflection on you, wunderbar. You speak for noone but yourself and know nothing of the background of other commenters. You go from saying, “chances are,” to in the next sentence making it a statement of fact: “So this is not entirely about conditions of detention – it is about how one feels about immigration – legal and illegal and “other” perpipheral markers of identity.” It is about conditions of confinement. For YOU, it is about “‘other’ peripheral markers of identity.”

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By: Rakesh http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/07/06/a_blip_on_no_on/comment-page-1/#comment-243416 Rakesh Tue, 07 Jul 2009 21:49:06 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5848#comment-243416 <blockquote>2) If he is being subjected to mandatory detention because of the criminal act, it should be noted that a) you don't have to even be convicted of the criminal offense to be subjected to deportation and b) as stated, it's mandatory - and therefore cruel. It's basically double jeopardy - you serve time and THEN you're put into a detention center. This was vastly expanded in the collection of anti-civil rights laws that were passed.</blockquote> <p>The Double Jeopardy Clause does <b>not</b> apply to proceedings to deport an individual. See Zuniga v Greene (1999) among other cases.</p> 2) If he is being subjected to mandatory detention because of the criminal act, it should be noted that a) you don’t have to even be convicted of the criminal offense to be subjected to deportation and b) as stated, it’s mandatory – and therefore cruel. It’s basically double jeopardy – you serve time and THEN you’re put into a detention center. This was vastly expanded in the collection of anti-civil rights laws that were passed.

The Double Jeopardy Clause does not apply to proceedings to deport an individual. See Zuniga v Greene (1999) among other cases.

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