Comments on: Progress! http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/07/02/progress/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: nidhi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/07/02/progress/comment-page-4/#comment-243926 nidhi Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:45:02 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5843#comment-243926 <p>wonderful. simply wonderful!</p> wonderful. simply wonderful!

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By: ray http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/07/02/progress/comment-page-4/#comment-243749 ray Mon, 13 Jul 2009 07:19:47 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5843#comment-243749 <p>hey, good job motherland. big ups to everyone in india that made this happen.</p> hey, good job motherland. big ups to everyone in india that made this happen.

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By: downward doggie http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/07/02/progress/comment-page-4/#comment-243419 downward doggie Tue, 07 Jul 2009 22:38:05 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5843#comment-243419 <blockquote><b>Baba Ramdev</b>, Sundara Chaitanyananda, Mata Amritanandamayi et al.My point was that these acharyas are largely neutral to the issue.</blockquote> <p><a href="http://www.rediff.com/news/report/2009/jul/07/yoga-can-treat-homosexuality-says-baba-ramdev.htm">Yoga can 'treat' homosexuality, says Baba Ramdev.</a></p> Baba Ramdev, Sundara Chaitanyananda, Mata Amritanandamayi et al.My point was that these acharyas are largely neutral to the issue.

Yoga can ‘treat’ homosexuality, says Baba Ramdev.

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By: Yoga Fire http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/07/02/progress/comment-page-4/#comment-243414 Yoga Fire Tue, 07 Jul 2009 21:39:11 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5843#comment-243414 <blockquote>I think if you really want to decide if something is "right" or not, I just simply ask myself "does it hurt anyone?". To me, two consenting adults loving each other doesn't hurt anyone else.If I am personally uncomfortable with an issue, I can think "well, I'm not personally comfortable, but it doesn't hurt anyone, so who am I to make their choices for them?</blockquote> <p>Humans are social creatures by nature. Society structures people's choices for them all the time.Taking a hands-off approach to that doesn't make them any more free, it just means you're enthralled to a different master. Rather than culture you have consumerism. Instead of traditions you have fads.</p> <p>While I personally don't have a problem with decriminalizing homosexuality, you do need to recognize that just as there is more to human life than advancing the species, there is more to making society tick than just the harm principle and there is more to having a meaningful life than just preference satisfaction and the fulfillment of material desires. People also desire order, the cultivation of virtue, and the common sense of culture that builds vibrant communities rather than regarding us all as random collections of atomized individuals.</p> I think if you really want to decide if something is “right” or not, I just simply ask myself “does it hurt anyone?”. To me, two consenting adults loving each other doesn’t hurt anyone else.If I am personally uncomfortable with an issue, I can think “well, I’m not personally comfortable, but it doesn’t hurt anyone, so who am I to make their choices for them?

Humans are social creatures by nature. Society structures people’s choices for them all the time.Taking a hands-off approach to that doesn’t make them any more free, it just means you’re enthralled to a different master. Rather than culture you have consumerism. Instead of traditions you have fads.

While I personally don’t have a problem with decriminalizing homosexuality, you do need to recognize that just as there is more to human life than advancing the species, there is more to making society tick than just the harm principle and there is more to having a meaningful life than just preference satisfaction and the fulfillment of material desires. People also desire order, the cultivation of virtue, and the common sense of culture that builds vibrant communities rather than regarding us all as random collections of atomized individuals.

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By: Rahul http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/07/02/progress/comment-page-4/#comment-243372 Rahul Tue, 07 Jul 2009 02:28:48 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5843#comment-243372 <blockquote>Roberts J.'s tenure is remarkable for the utter lack of single ruling of note.</blockquote> <p>Whaaa? This court is radically remaking the legal landscape in favor of hard right wing conservativism. John Roberts' totally clowned the Senate with his talk of stare decisis and calling balls and strikes, and has very successfully got the measure of Kennedy.</p> <blockquote>I am looking forward to the admission of Sotomayor for some much needed zing.</blockquote> <p>There is no shortage of zing in the heartfelt dissents by Ginsburg, Souter et al. But these are just sideshows, and addition of more zing from Sotomayor is hardly going to change that. Unless she has a compelling articulation of an agenda, and reveals hitherto undisplayed political skills in luring Kennedy away from the Roberts camp.</p> Roberts J.’s tenure is remarkable for the utter lack of single ruling of note.

Whaaa? This court is radically remaking the legal landscape in favor of hard right wing conservativism. John Roberts’ totally clowned the Senate with his talk of stare decisis and calling balls and strikes, and has very successfully got the measure of Kennedy.

I am looking forward to the admission of Sotomayor for some much needed zing.

There is no shortage of zing in the heartfelt dissents by Ginsburg, Souter et al. But these are just sideshows, and addition of more zing from Sotomayor is hardly going to change that. Unless she has a compelling articulation of an agenda, and reveals hitherto undisplayed political skills in luring Kennedy away from the Roberts camp.

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By: jyotsana http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/07/02/progress/comment-page-4/#comment-243369 jyotsana Tue, 07 Jul 2009 02:14:26 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5843#comment-243369 <blockquote>Nice example of judicial activism. Where are India's Clarence Thomas, Kennedy, Scalia, Alito and Roberts?</blockquote> <p>Along with French rulings, Indian rulings are remarkably clear headed and free of sanctimony, bombast, cant, and plain bad reasoning. Sadly after the exit of Marshall J. US SC rulings, thanks in large measure to ignoramuses like Scalia (and now the trashy four) have lost their zing and very predictable. Roberts J.'s tenure is remarkable for the utter lack of single ruling of note. Scalia if nothing is good for a laugh. I am looking forward to the admission of Sotomayor for some much needed zing. Scalia has ruled the roost for too long with too little.</p> Nice example of judicial activism. Where are India’s Clarence Thomas, Kennedy, Scalia, Alito and Roberts?

Along with French rulings, Indian rulings are remarkably clear headed and free of sanctimony, bombast, cant, and plain bad reasoning. Sadly after the exit of Marshall J. US SC rulings, thanks in large measure to ignoramuses like Scalia (and now the trashy four) have lost their zing and very predictable. Roberts J.’s tenure is remarkable for the utter lack of single ruling of note. Scalia if nothing is good for a laugh. I am looking forward to the admission of Sotomayor for some much needed zing. Scalia has ruled the roost for too long with too little.

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By: GurMando http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/07/02/progress/comment-page-3/#comment-243341 GurMando Mon, 06 Jul 2009 05:33:42 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5843#comment-243341 <p>Sikh religious leaders in the Surrey, BC area in Canada made the same ridiculous statements re: homosexuality and Sikhism.</p> <p>Sikhism was specifically purposed towards equality of caste, religion, creed and even gender - why should sexual orientation be any different ? There are absolutely no writings by any of the Gurus which address or condemn homosexuality. The only thing close that people have 'interpreted' are verses related to lust or sexual urges - which is what these people seem to relegate gays and lesbians to - just sexual deviants or those with urges that need to be prayed away.</p> <p>There is nothing in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib which explicitly singles out same sex relationships and I personally believe the overallteachings on the golden rule and equality trump all other interpretations. Faith is a very personal thing - just like politics, everyone's belief system is different and not black and white. We have to stop letting religious 'leaders' make blanket statements for the entire 'community'.</p> Sikh religious leaders in the Surrey, BC area in Canada made the same ridiculous statements re: homosexuality and Sikhism.

Sikhism was specifically purposed towards equality of caste, religion, creed and even gender - why should sexual orientation be any different ? There are absolutely no writings by any of the Gurus which address or condemn homosexuality. The only thing close that people have ‘interpreted’ are verses related to lust or sexual urges – which is what these people seem to relegate gays and lesbians to – just sexual deviants or those with urges that need to be prayed away.

There is nothing in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib which explicitly singles out same sex relationships and I personally believe the overallteachings on the golden rule and equality trump all other interpretations. Faith is a very personal thing – just like politics, everyone’s belief system is different and not black and white. We have to stop letting religious ‘leaders’ make blanket statements for the entire ‘community’.

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By: LinZi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/07/02/progress/comment-page-3/#comment-243340 LinZi Mon, 06 Jul 2009 04:57:23 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5843#comment-243340 <p>Illuminati : "I'm ambivalent about the whole same-sex deal. I understand that the concept of marriage is an evolving one. But there does seem to be the tired old question within that has not been answered - is gay sex something nature intended? And if so, what is its purpose? And if all it takes are consenting adults why do we need to outlaw incest?"</p> <p>What's the purpose? A good question... I don't think anyone really knows. But we can ask the same question about so many things about humans, and get the same answer... some have clearer points than others... for example Sickle Cell Anemia inherited from one side can protect against malaria, while inherited rom two can cause a serious illness. Fairer skin is predominant in areas which get less sunlight throughout the year, blue eyes may have originally helped people see better in fire-light caves during cold winters, whereas humans living in sunnier, warmer climates need darker skin tones to protect them from the suns rays.</p> <p>Other traits of humans are less clear. Some people are born with curly hair and some with straight.. I don't think if there is any 'purpose' for that. Some people, like me, have a lot of moles, while other people don't. Some children are born inter-sex, others are born with cleft palates or any variety of differences. Some kids are born to like quiet indoor games while others prefer rough and tumble in the outdoors. I have crooked pinkies, I hear that is a genetic trait, as is the ability to curl your tongue, possessing a widow's peak, etc.</p> <p>I don't really question the nature of every reason why humans are the way they are. We are diverse in many ways, and this helps humans survive. Not all of our differences give us an evolutionary advantage, some do in some places, and some are just random occurrences. But without those random occurrences and differences, we, like other living organisms, wouldn't be able to adapt to a changing environment, pathogens, etc. This diversity is what helps us survive as a species.</p> <p>I think if you really want to decide if something is "right" or not, I just simply ask myself "does it hurt anyone?". To me, two consenting adults loving each other doesn't hurt anyone else.If I am personally uncomfortable with an issue, I can think "well, I'm not personally comfortable, but it doesn't hurt anyone, so who am I to make their choices for them?</p> Illuminati : “I’m ambivalent about the whole same-sex deal. I understand that the concept of marriage is an evolving one. But there does seem to be the tired old question within that has not been answered – is gay sex something nature intended? And if so, what is its purpose? And if all it takes are consenting adults why do we need to outlaw incest?”

What’s the purpose? A good question… I don’t think anyone really knows. But we can ask the same question about so many things about humans, and get the same answer… some have clearer points than others… for example Sickle Cell Anemia inherited from one side can protect against malaria, while inherited rom two can cause a serious illness. Fairer skin is predominant in areas which get less sunlight throughout the year, blue eyes may have originally helped people see better in fire-light caves during cold winters, whereas humans living in sunnier, warmer climates need darker skin tones to protect them from the suns rays.

Other traits of humans are less clear. Some people are born with curly hair and some with straight.. I don’t think if there is any ‘purpose’ for that. Some people, like me, have a lot of moles, while other people don’t. Some children are born inter-sex, others are born with cleft palates or any variety of differences. Some kids are born to like quiet indoor games while others prefer rough and tumble in the outdoors. I have crooked pinkies, I hear that is a genetic trait, as is the ability to curl your tongue, possessing a widow’s peak, etc.

I don’t really question the nature of every reason why humans are the way they are. We are diverse in many ways, and this helps humans survive. Not all of our differences give us an evolutionary advantage, some do in some places, and some are just random occurrences. But without those random occurrences and differences, we, like other living organisms, wouldn’t be able to adapt to a changing environment, pathogens, etc. This diversity is what helps us survive as a species.

I think if you really want to decide if something is “right” or not, I just simply ask myself “does it hurt anyone?”. To me, two consenting adults loving each other doesn’t hurt anyone else.If I am personally uncomfortable with an issue, I can think “well, I’m not personally comfortable, but it doesn’t hurt anyone, so who am I to make their choices for them?

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By: Rahul http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/07/02/progress/comment-page-3/#comment-243339 Rahul Mon, 06 Jul 2009 03:13:44 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5843#comment-243339 <blockquote>I'd like to know who ever got arrested for having "gay sex" in India</blockquote> <p>Here is an <a href="http://www.iglhrc.org/binary-data/ATTACHMENT/file/000/000/15-1.pdf">excellent article</a> detailing the harmful impact 377 has had on Indian homosexuals. Page 4820 especially goes into a few documented examples of how 377 has been used by police to extract sex from, harass, and blackmail gay men, and even arrest NGO workers who distribute condoms to gay men.</p> I’d like to know who ever got arrested for having “gay sex” in India

Here is an excellent article detailing the harmful impact 377 has had on Indian homosexuals. Page 4820 especially goes into a few documented examples of how 377 has been used by police to extract sex from, harass, and blackmail gay men, and even arrest NGO workers who distribute condoms to gay men.

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By: Bi Begum http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/07/02/progress/comment-page-3/#comment-243336 Bi Begum Mon, 06 Jul 2009 00:56:11 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5843#comment-243336 <p>Sikh, Christian and the supposedly progressive Arya Samaj mainstream leaders say;</p> <p>Sikh</p> <p>Gyani Gurbachan Singh, head priest of the Akal Takth - the highest temporal seat of the Sikh community - said: “We strongly oppose this high court decision. It is against the laws of the nature. We appeal to the Indian government to rethink the issue. We also appeal to the Sikh community to boycott this verdict as it is against the teachings of the Guru Granth Sahib.”</p> <p>Arya Samaj</p> <p>Ganesh Tripathi, a senior priest of Delhi Arya Samaj Mandir, said: “The Arya Samaj can never accept this. This cannot be applied to Hindu society or our beliefs.”</p> <p>Christian</p> <p>“We have no objection or opposition to de-criminalisation of homosexuality because we never considered them criminals. However, we are also clear that we are against legalising it…because what they do is unnatural and against the design and will of God,” said Father Dominic Emmanuel.</p> <p>KCBC spokesperson Father Stephen Alathara said: “This (homosexuality) is against the Indian culture. We will oppose it and since our country is a democratic one, there is no way that this can be legalised through legislation. The church’s views will have to be sought.”</p> <p>Me</p> <p>I think the LGBT community of India should allay their fears and make it clear that they are seeking basic human rights and oppurtunities, not a revolution nor widespread celebration of their "lifestyle".</p> Sikh, Christian and the supposedly progressive Arya Samaj mainstream leaders say;

Sikh

Gyani Gurbachan Singh, head priest of the Akal Takth – the highest temporal seat of the Sikh community – said: “We strongly oppose this high court decision. It is against the laws of the nature. We appeal to the Indian government to rethink the issue. We also appeal to the Sikh community to boycott this verdict as it is against the teachings of the Guru Granth Sahib.”

Arya Samaj

Ganesh Tripathi, a senior priest of Delhi Arya Samaj Mandir, said: “The Arya Samaj can never accept this. This cannot be applied to Hindu society or our beliefs.”

Christian

“We have no objection or opposition to de-criminalisation of homosexuality because we never considered them criminals. However, we are also clear that we are against legalising it…because what they do is unnatural and against the design and will of God,” said Father Dominic Emmanuel.

KCBC spokesperson Father Stephen Alathara said: “This (homosexuality) is against the Indian culture. We will oppose it and since our country is a democratic one, there is no way that this can be legalised through legislation. The church’s views will have to be sought.”

Me

I think the LGBT community of India should allay their fears and make it clear that they are seeking basic human rights and oppurtunities, not a revolution nor widespread celebration of their “lifestyle”.

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