Comments on: “Talk Hindi To Me” http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/24/talk_hindi_to_m/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: nmlhats http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/24/talk_hindi_to_m/comment-page-5/#comment-259153 nmlhats Tue, 27 Oct 2009 22:02:25 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5833#comment-259153 <p>I'm finally getting around to the book, and it is a memoir combined with scholarly work on language learning and language retention, full of interviews with neurologists and such. Whoever told her to make those dumb videos is wrong, wrong, wrong, and so is the p.r. that attempted to sell the book. It is actually a fairly serious work, not at all light reading, and not intended to be a barrel of ethnic laughs. For everyone who thinks Rich is a clueless white elitist based on the video and written publicity and interviews (by writers who had not read the book, rather only the press kits) that ccompanied the book's release, I urge you to read the book and then re-evaluate. I'm only about 1/4 of the way through it, but would recommend it to people interested in neurolinguistics and/or India and/or human relations.</p> I’m finally getting around to the book, and it is a memoir combined with scholarly work on language learning and language retention, full of interviews with neurologists and such. Whoever told her to make those dumb videos is wrong, wrong, wrong, and so is the p.r. that attempted to sell the book. It is actually a fairly serious work, not at all light reading, and not intended to be a barrel of ethnic laughs. For everyone who thinks Rich is a clueless white elitist based on the video and written publicity and interviews (by writers who had not read the book, rather only the press kits) that ccompanied the book’s release, I urge you to read the book and then re-evaluate. I’m only about 1/4 of the way through it, but would recommend it to people interested in neurolinguistics and/or India and/or human relations.

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By: Jonathan Hayward http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/24/talk_hindi_to_m/comment-page-5/#comment-244904 Jonathan Hayward Thu, 30 Jul 2009 21:15:58 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5833#comment-244904 <p><b>Anthropological "positive politeness" and "negative politeness"</b></p> <p>At the risk of intruding, there is a concept from anthropology that underscores what is amiss.</p> <p>There was one time I was with my parents at a Chinese restaurant they liked to go to.</p> <p>I personally did not know the owner, who was tending to us; I tried to be polite to the owner, but I did not and do not know her name, and I am not really an acquaintance to her. My parents, being around that restaurant much more often, were acquainted with the restaurant owner, addressed her by name, and exchanged acquaintances' talk.</p> <p>And, that day, there was a drunken visitor who asked our (Chinese) hostess if she was Filipina, told her again and again, "I'll marry you," and otherwise tried to connect in other inappropriate ways.</p> <p>The drunken visitor was making an atrocious violation of what is called "negative politeness": showing respect for the other person by staying within appropriate bounds. My parents' interactions, and mine, were within "negative politeness" by not overstepping boundaries, even if more conversation was appropriate for my parents. And that is precisely what the drunken visitor broke.</p> <p>I think "negative politeness" concerns are active here. The problem isn't a Westerner trying to learn Hindi or speak it with others; the problem is framing things in a way that violates "negative politeness." It steps over people's boundaries.</p> <p>I find that when I am trying to make connections with people, if I try and show I know something, I have already set things off on a bad foot. If I just try to be with people, others may decide that I know something.</p> <p>I'm not sure how well the author has learned that lesson.</p> Anthropological “positive politeness” and “negative politeness”

At the risk of intruding, there is a concept from anthropology that underscores what is amiss.

There was one time I was with my parents at a Chinese restaurant they liked to go to.

I personally did not know the owner, who was tending to us; I tried to be polite to the owner, but I did not and do not know her name, and I am not really an acquaintance to her. My parents, being around that restaurant much more often, were acquainted with the restaurant owner, addressed her by name, and exchanged acquaintances’ talk.

And, that day, there was a drunken visitor who asked our (Chinese) hostess if she was Filipina, told her again and again, “I’ll marry you,” and otherwise tried to connect in other inappropriate ways.

The drunken visitor was making an atrocious violation of what is called “negative politeness”: showing respect for the other person by staying within appropriate bounds. My parents’ interactions, and mine, were within “negative politeness” by not overstepping boundaries, even if more conversation was appropriate for my parents. And that is precisely what the drunken visitor broke.

I think “negative politeness” concerns are active here. The problem isn’t a Westerner trying to learn Hindi or speak it with others; the problem is framing things in a way that violates “negative politeness.” It steps over people’s boundaries.

I find that when I am trying to make connections with people, if I try and show I know something, I have already set things off on a bad foot. If I just try to be with people, others may decide that I know something.

I’m not sure how well the author has learned that lesson.

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By: Jonathan Hayward http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/24/talk_hindi_to_m/comment-page-5/#comment-244901 Jonathan Hayward Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:42:46 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5833#comment-244901 <blockquote>...because Oprah picked it.</blockquote> <p>At least there's a prominent warning label...</p> …because Oprah picked it.

At least there’s a prominent warning label…

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By: LinZi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/24/talk_hindi_to_m/comment-page-5/#comment-244832 LinZi Thu, 30 Jul 2009 02:21:37 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5833#comment-244832 <p>That second video makes the book sound much more interesting... but I still find her voice rubs me the wrong way...in Hindi or English!</p> That second video makes the book sound much more interesting… but I still find her voice rubs me the wrong way…in Hindi or English!

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By: nmlhats http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/24/talk_hindi_to_m/comment-page-5/#comment-244827 nmlhats Thu, 30 Jul 2009 02:06:53 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5833#comment-244827 <p>To get an idea of why I and other language lovers will enjoy this book, watch the OTHER (and better) short video she made about language and neurolinguistics, another angle of her book. That whole subject area is fascinating to me--was just listening to a program today discussing neurolinguistics and language creation (think Esperanto, Ido and Klingon). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoTj2ubwZ4w</p> To get an idea of why I and other language lovers will enjoy this book, watch the OTHER (and better) short video she made about language and neurolinguistics, another angle of her book. That whole subject area is fascinating to me–was just listening to a program today discussing neurolinguistics and language creation (think Esperanto, Ido and Klingon). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoTj2ubwZ4w

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By: nmlhats http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/24/talk_hindi_to_m/comment-page-5/#comment-244825 nmlhats Thu, 30 Jul 2009 01:56:01 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5833#comment-244825 <p>I can clearly remeber the first time I caught myself thinking in French, and later, Italian, so the idea of "Dreaming in Hindi" attracts me from word one. However, her video is AWFUL. If I did not have an abiding interest in the subject matter, I would probably not read the book. But I do plan to request it at my local library.</p> <p>I watch a loooooot of Hindi movies and listen to quite a bit of music that comes from said movies. I convinced two dozen of my pasty white friends to go see "Aaja Nachle" on my birthday two years ago and gave them all CDs of Indian film music as party favors. I have picked up only a few words of Hindi here and there from watching the movies, but I think it would be amazing to be able to understand the dialogues and lyrics without subtitles someday (especially the songs, which are translated so goofily sometimes, just to get a totally unnecessary English rhyme).</p> <p>I have my degree in French, speak Italian, have also studied Latin and a little German, and have been taking Spanish lessons for two years. Learning Hindi would be a very normal and typical thing for someone like me to do: an enriching adventure for a language lover who loves learning something new. I have a dictionary of the common roots of Indo-European languages and I would totally dig learning any language coming from Sanskrit, so that I could appreciate even more the inter-relationships among languages. My brother is the same way (in fact, he gave me that book 25 years ago as a gift): going to Norway for two weeks inspired him to try to learn a decent amount of Norwegian; visiting Turkey, Turkish; when adopting two kids from Russia, he learned Russian in advance of the adoption.</p> <p>Whatever Rich's reasons were for learning Hindi may not sit well with some people, but for some of us, it boils down to a love of language and learning, and a tool that can help one enjoy another culture just a little bit better (when used appropriately, of course).</p> I can clearly remeber the first time I caught myself thinking in French, and later, Italian, so the idea of “Dreaming in Hindi” attracts me from word one. However, her video is AWFUL. If I did not have an abiding interest in the subject matter, I would probably not read the book. But I do plan to request it at my local library.

I watch a loooooot of Hindi movies and listen to quite a bit of music that comes from said movies. I convinced two dozen of my pasty white friends to go see “Aaja Nachle” on my birthday two years ago and gave them all CDs of Indian film music as party favors. I have picked up only a few words of Hindi here and there from watching the movies, but I think it would be amazing to be able to understand the dialogues and lyrics without subtitles someday (especially the songs, which are translated so goofily sometimes, just to get a totally unnecessary English rhyme).

I have my degree in French, speak Italian, have also studied Latin and a little German, and have been taking Spanish lessons for two years. Learning Hindi would be a very normal and typical thing for someone like me to do: an enriching adventure for a language lover who loves learning something new. I have a dictionary of the common roots of Indo-European languages and I would totally dig learning any language coming from Sanskrit, so that I could appreciate even more the inter-relationships among languages. My brother is the same way (in fact, he gave me that book 25 years ago as a gift): going to Norway for two weeks inspired him to try to learn a decent amount of Norwegian; visiting Turkey, Turkish; when adopting two kids from Russia, he learned Russian in advance of the adoption.

Whatever Rich’s reasons were for learning Hindi may not sit well with some people, but for some of us, it boils down to a love of language and learning, and a tool that can help one enjoy another culture just a little bit better (when used appropriately, of course).

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By: JJGerson http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/24/talk_hindi_to_m/comment-page-5/#comment-244703 JJGerson Tue, 28 Jul 2009 16:25:20 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5833#comment-244703 <p>The collective effect of these comments is sickening. It's so ugly to watch one of these hate frenzies build on line--makes you understand things about human nature you wish you didn't.</p> The collective effect of these comments is sickening. It’s so ugly to watch one of these hate frenzies build on line–makes you understand things about human nature you wish you didn’t.

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By: clayton http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/24/talk_hindi_to_m/comment-page-5/#comment-244513 clayton Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:59:19 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5833#comment-244513 <p>I understand why the video may annoy so many people, but it is a poor reflection of the quality of the book. In the end, Ms. Rich is very respectful of India and its culture. While she may not express it exactly how every native Indian would prefer (at least those who posted here seem to be very quick to point out her flaws without seeing the bigger picture), you need only read the book fully to understand that she truly felt transformed in a positive way by her experience. I also think that her sense of humor is lost on most of those who have posted here. It may not be your sense of humor, but my god, there is so much sensitivity that one would think satire doesn't exist in Hindi....</p> I understand why the video may annoy so many people, but it is a poor reflection of the quality of the book. In the end, Ms. Rich is very respectful of India and its culture. While she may not express it exactly how every native Indian would prefer (at least those who posted here seem to be very quick to point out her flaws without seeing the bigger picture), you need only read the book fully to understand that she truly felt transformed in a positive way by her experience. I also think that her sense of humor is lost on most of those who have posted here. It may not be your sense of humor, but my god, there is so much sensitivity that one would think satire doesn’t exist in Hindi….

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By: Murugesan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/24/talk_hindi_to_m/comment-page-5/#comment-244408 Murugesan Wed, 22 Jul 2009 15:58:09 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5833#comment-244408 <p>I haven't read all 200+ comments on this thread but is it only me who finds it funny that the title is written in mock-Tamil?? haha. Love that.</p> <p>I don't happen to share the view of some of the more sarcastic posters but do agree that it seems that more than a few Western academics learn <em>many</em> things about India just to say they "know" them. And we all know how many times their knowledge coincides with the truth.</p> <p>So is it so shocking to see this kind of book? (And I agree that people should read the book before going on these rants! ...Which is exactly what I'm going to do after hitting "Post"). ha.</p> I haven’t read all 200+ comments on this thread but is it only me who finds it funny that the title is written in mock-Tamil?? haha. Love that.

I don’t happen to share the view of some of the more sarcastic posters but do agree that it seems that more than a few Western academics learn many things about India just to say they “know” them. And we all know how many times their knowledge coincides with the truth.

So is it so shocking to see this kind of book? (And I agree that people should read the book before going on these rants! …Which is exactly what I’m going to do after hitting “Post”). ha.

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By: pilker http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/24/talk_hindi_to_m/comment-page-5/#comment-244372 pilker Wed, 22 Jul 2009 02:34:48 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5833#comment-244372 <p>It's obvious from the outrage and sniping comments here that virtually none of you has read the book. Because it's pretty much not about what you're all assuming it is. It's 50% about neurolinguistics. About what goes on in the brain when someone, especially an older person, attempts to learn a second language, including a second writing system, that is very far removed from their own. Consider yourselves, maybe packing up and moving off to learn, say, Russian, or Thai, or Mandarin, or whatever may be very, very different from what you were raised with. This book is NOT about "how I got paid to go to a far-off country and how I learned Hindi in a year." The videos are making the point of how far away one will always be from meshing with the culture/language one is attempting to merge with. How difficult it is.<br /> I'm rather saddened by the vehement judgments I read here. Some are rather immature; I think you should read the book and<i> then</i> offer your critiques. In addition, I think you might find this perspective humbling - http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20130056,00.html</p> It’s obvious from the outrage and sniping comments here that virtually none of you has read the book. Because it’s pretty much not about what you’re all assuming it is. It’s 50% about neurolinguistics. About what goes on in the brain when someone, especially an older person, attempts to learn a second language, including a second writing system, that is very far removed from their own. Consider yourselves, maybe packing up and moving off to learn, say, Russian, or Thai, or Mandarin, or whatever may be very, very different from what you were raised with. This book is NOT about “how I got paid to go to a far-off country and how I learned Hindi in a year.” The videos are making the point of how far away one will always be from meshing with the culture/language one is attempting to merge with. How difficult it is.
I’m rather saddened by the vehement judgments I read here. Some are rather immature; I think you should read the book and then offer your critiques. In addition, I think you might find this perspective humbling - http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20130056,00.html

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