Comments on: In Argentina, Turbans=Maharajas? http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/07/in_argentina_tu/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: always indian http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/07/in_argentina_tu/comment-page-1/#comment-242065 always indian Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:19:31 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5812#comment-242065 <p>We keenly follow NRI stories and are delighted to find one here. Sardarji's are anyways are favourite NRI's spread throughout the world. Good Article, That what we can say!</p> We keenly follow NRI stories and are delighted to find one here. Sardarji’s are anyways are favourite NRI’s spread throughout the world. Good Article, That what we can say!

]]>
By: Go India http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/07/in_argentina_tu/comment-page-1/#comment-241813 Go India Sun, 14 Jun 2009 05:54:14 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5812#comment-241813 <p>Bobby,</p> <p>You have your heart in the right place regarding freedom of the individual within Sikhism. So you might be interested in this analysis, <a href="http://www.indianexpress.com/news/monopoly-religion/466059/0">Monopoly religion</a>.</p> <blockquote>It is deeply sad that a most gloriously inventive, radical and genuinely pious religious community like the Sikhs now seems to be frequently hostage to a regime of internal intolerance. Not only was this tradition founded on the premise of an astonishing synthesis; it allowed an amazing internal diversity as well. In the nineteenth century, there were a large number of traditions with which Sikhs identified: Khalsa, Nirmala, Udasi, Nanak-Panthi, Nihang, Kalu Panthi, Ram Dasi, Kuka, Nirankari, etc. Now it is fair to say that over the course of the twentieth century this diverse tradition has also succumbed to the cardinal sins any religious tradition can commit: establish a coercive set of monopolies. The roots of the current conflict that took a murderous turn in Vienna will, in due course be traced to contingent causes. On the face of it, both the violence in Vienna and the violent response in Punjab will turn out to have political overtones. But underlying this conflict is the fact that Sikh identity has been transformed over the course of the twentieth century, often in the direction of internal intolerance. Some of its followers have succumbed to the idea that there can be only one authoritative interpretation of the tradition, there can be only one authority pronouncing over temporal aspects of the religion, and that both of these monopolies will also be tied to a territorial imagination. The attempt is to monopolise the master narrative of Sikh tradition, to eviscerate its diverse imaginings, and to concentrate power in organisations like the SGPC. You take all of these aspirations, and align them with religious politics and you will get the combustible mix that we are seeing in Punjab. The blunt truth is that the drive to standardise Sikh identity is the root cause of so many of these troubles. It is not often discussed in public, but there is no getting away from the fact that organised groups within Sikhism, including the SGPC, have served to silence internal criticism within the tradition. Openly challenging authority has become a risky business, and a number of Sikh intellectuals feel under pressure not to challenge the insidious monopolies that are putting the liberal imagination within Sikhism at great risk. It is a truism that the conditions for generating an enlarged and liberal outlook are less a function of the doctrine of a religion, but more a product of the fragmentation of authority. When any tradition is comfortable with the idea that there is no monopoly over authority, over interpretation, it is more likely to be comfortable with internal dissent. The fragmentation of authority is important for the intellectual vitality of any tradition. But the move in organised Sikhism has often been in the reverse direction: to uphold monopoly over authority and homogeneity of identity at all cost. Unless the tradition comes to terms with this increasing internal intolerance it will remain hostage to violence. Many religious identities see themselves under siege in the modern world, and are inventing new abstract identifications that do away with the richness of traditions. In that sense Sikhism is not exceptional. But in the Indian context the fact that so much of its authority has been closely linked to politics, complicates its character. Political parties, let alone unfriendly powers, will not hesitate to fish in this political cauldron. It is important that this conflict be contained, and justice done, before it acquires dangerous proportions. And it is important to learn the lesson that monopolies within any religion are dangerous: they generate more conflict. One can only hope that the religion will return to the eternal and limitless verities of the sabda, and not be hijacked by the narcissism of so many little selves.</blockquote> Bobby,

You have your heart in the right place regarding freedom of the individual within Sikhism. So you might be interested in this analysis, Monopoly religion.

It is deeply sad that a most gloriously inventive, radical and genuinely pious religious community like the Sikhs now seems to be frequently hostage to a regime of internal intolerance. Not only was this tradition founded on the premise of an astonishing synthesis; it allowed an amazing internal diversity as well. In the nineteenth century, there were a large number of traditions with which Sikhs identified: Khalsa, Nirmala, Udasi, Nanak-Panthi, Nihang, Kalu Panthi, Ram Dasi, Kuka, Nirankari, etc. Now it is fair to say that over the course of the twentieth century this diverse tradition has also succumbed to the cardinal sins any religious tradition can commit: establish a coercive set of monopolies. The roots of the current conflict that took a murderous turn in Vienna will, in due course be traced to contingent causes. On the face of it, both the violence in Vienna and the violent response in Punjab will turn out to have political overtones. But underlying this conflict is the fact that Sikh identity has been transformed over the course of the twentieth century, often in the direction of internal intolerance. Some of its followers have succumbed to the idea that there can be only one authoritative interpretation of the tradition, there can be only one authority pronouncing over temporal aspects of the religion, and that both of these monopolies will also be tied to a territorial imagination. The attempt is to monopolise the master narrative of Sikh tradition, to eviscerate its diverse imaginings, and to concentrate power in organisations like the SGPC. You take all of these aspirations, and align them with religious politics and you will get the combustible mix that we are seeing in Punjab. The blunt truth is that the drive to standardise Sikh identity is the root cause of so many of these troubles. It is not often discussed in public, but there is no getting away from the fact that organised groups within Sikhism, including the SGPC, have served to silence internal criticism within the tradition. Openly challenging authority has become a risky business, and a number of Sikh intellectuals feel under pressure not to challenge the insidious monopolies that are putting the liberal imagination within Sikhism at great risk. It is a truism that the conditions for generating an enlarged and liberal outlook are less a function of the doctrine of a religion, but more a product of the fragmentation of authority. When any tradition is comfortable with the idea that there is no monopoly over authority, over interpretation, it is more likely to be comfortable with internal dissent. The fragmentation of authority is important for the intellectual vitality of any tradition. But the move in organised Sikhism has often been in the reverse direction: to uphold monopoly over authority and homogeneity of identity at all cost. Unless the tradition comes to terms with this increasing internal intolerance it will remain hostage to violence. Many religious identities see themselves under siege in the modern world, and are inventing new abstract identifications that do away with the richness of traditions. In that sense Sikhism is not exceptional. But in the Indian context the fact that so much of its authority has been closely linked to politics, complicates its character. Political parties, let alone unfriendly powers, will not hesitate to fish in this political cauldron. It is important that this conflict be contained, and justice done, before it acquires dangerous proportions. And it is important to learn the lesson that monopolies within any religion are dangerous: they generate more conflict. One can only hope that the religion will return to the eternal and limitless verities of the sabda, and not be hijacked by the narcissism of so many little selves.
]]>
By: Bobby http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/07/in_argentina_tu/comment-page-1/#comment-241702 Bobby Thu, 11 Jun 2009 21:21:12 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5812#comment-241702 <p>I didn't read Camille's response because I am scared of being told off like by my angry aunty.</p> <p>Sardars are the best company for nightlife and enjoyment, the understand the adage of 'work hard, play hard' --- this is absolute 100% truth.</p> I didn’t read Camille’s response because I am scared of being told off like by my angry aunty.

Sardars are the best company for nightlife and enjoyment, the understand the adage of ‘work hard, play hard’ — this is absolute 100% truth.

]]>
By: Wanderer http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/07/in_argentina_tu/comment-page-1/#comment-241701 Wanderer Thu, 11 Jun 2009 20:42:30 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5812#comment-241701 <p>Don't know where you get your Sikh hierarchy from ( contradiction as there are no castes in sikhism, however Punjabis who are sikhs have a cultural caste system based on the hindu one), but whoever he is I am proud of the Peanut Maharaja</p> Don’t know where you get your Sikh hierarchy from ( contradiction as there are no castes in sikhism, however Punjabis who are sikhs have a cultural caste system based on the hindu one), but whoever he is I am proud of the Peanut Maharaja

]]>
By: NSG http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/07/in_argentina_tu/comment-page-1/#comment-241697 NSG Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:29:50 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5812#comment-241697 <p>Nam:</p> <blockquote>I have seen other Indian families who are half Spaniard half Indian, mainly Sindhi</blockquote> <p>dado interesante...</p> Nam:

I have seen other Indian families who are half Spaniard half Indian, mainly Sindhi

dado interesante…

]]>
By: Argentine http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/07/in_argentina_tu/comment-page-1/#comment-241693 Argentine Thu, 11 Jun 2009 04:49:56 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5812#comment-241693 <blockquote>He's Jatt. But he does not look scythian at all. Maybe he is a chamar?</blockquote> <p>He's probably from the business community of Sikhs. I'm not Sikh but the Sikh hierarchy is something like this</p> <p>1)Jatt 2)Punjabi Brahmin 3)Rajput 4)Business community 5)everyone else</p> He’s Jatt. But he does not look scythian at all. Maybe he is a chamar?

He’s probably from the business community of Sikhs. I’m not Sikh but the Sikh hierarchy is something like this

1)Jatt 2)Punjabi Brahmin 3)Rajput 4)Business community 5)everyone else

]]>
By: Argentine http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/07/in_argentina_tu/comment-page-1/#comment-241692 Argentine Thu, 11 Jun 2009 04:42:52 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5812#comment-241692 <p>"Thanks for the lecture Camille but I didn't read past the first sentence as it seemed very angry and I am too busy setting up a night out with my playboy sardar buddies in some nice hotel rooftop bars and nightclubs. Sorry."</p> <p>Seriously, a lot of Sikh girls are playgirls/pimpettes (whatever you want to call it) as well. Its funny how Sikhs in US, Canada, UK, lecture about Sikhi principles and then go clubbing the same night; and then to the Gurudwara the next morning.</p> “Thanks for the lecture Camille but I didn’t read past the first sentence as it seemed very angry and I am too busy setting up a night out with my playboy sardar buddies in some nice hotel rooftop bars and nightclubs. Sorry.”

Seriously, a lot of Sikh girls are playgirls/pimpettes (whatever you want to call it) as well. Its funny how Sikhs in US, Canada, UK, lecture about Sikhi principles and then go clubbing the same night; and then to the Gurudwara the next morning.

]]>
By: PS http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/07/in_argentina_tu/comment-page-1/#comment-241683 PS Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:03:36 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5812#comment-241683 <p><i>But he does not look scythian at all. Maybe he is a chamar?</i></p> <p>Are you actually serious with this question? WTH is a Scythian - is he an INdian; a south asian? Look when you look at white people, don't you see people with big, elongated noses and some with small stubby noses. Why is there such attention to these stereotypes that are broken everyday?</p> But he does not look scythian at all. Maybe he is a chamar?

Are you actually serious with this question? WTH is a Scythian – is he an INdian; a south asian? Look when you look at white people, don’t you see people with big, elongated noses and some with small stubby noses. Why is there such attention to these stereotypes that are broken everyday?

]]>
By: munda punjab da http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/07/in_argentina_tu/comment-page-1/#comment-241682 munda punjab da Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:53:54 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5812#comment-241682 <blockquote>He's Jatt.</blockquote> <p>But he does not look scythian at all. Maybe he is a chamar?</p> He’s Jatt.

But he does not look scythian at all. Maybe he is a chamar?

]]>
By: Jeet http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/07/in_argentina_tu/comment-page-1/#comment-241679 Jeet Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:30:13 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5812#comment-241679 <blockquote>Someone is walking this planet at this very moment with 10 million dollars in their account because they make toilet seat covers</blockquote> <p>. atleast that we need....but there is someone walkin around with millions because he/she created Snuggie..a freaking blanket w/ sleeves...</p> Someone is walking this planet at this very moment with 10 million dollars in their account because they make toilet seat covers

. atleast that we need….but there is someone walkin around with millions because he/she created Snuggie..a freaking blanket w/ sleeves…

]]>