Comments on: Review: “Global Bollywood: Travels of Hindi Song and Dance” http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/04/review_global_b/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Wanderer http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/04/review_global_b/comment-page-1/#comment-241704 Wanderer Fri, 12 Jun 2009 01:05:19 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5807#comment-241704 <p>I Agree with Boston Mahesh..best indian films are all non bollywood..no matter which of the real indian languages they are in..</p> I Agree with Boston Mahesh..best indian films are all non bollywood..no matter which of the real indian languages they are in..

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By: Suzy http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/04/review_global_b/comment-page-1/#comment-241618 Suzy Tue, 09 Jun 2009 17:02:23 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5807#comment-241618 <p>There is far more plaigarism in Bollywood than is decent. The industry is a plaigarists paradise, and this cannot be denied.</p> <p>However, there are some very good movies that have been made in the mainstream Bollywood cinema recently. Movies that are original artistically, that have coherence, that are believable, well acted, and are not plaigarised.</p> There is far more plaigarism in Bollywood than is decent. The industry is a plaigarists paradise, and this cannot be denied.

However, there are some very good movies that have been made in the mainstream Bollywood cinema recently. Movies that are original artistically, that have coherence, that are believable, well acted, and are not plaigarised.

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By: suresh http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/04/review_global_b/comment-page-1/#comment-241617 suresh Tue, 09 Jun 2009 16:12:57 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5807#comment-241617 <p>Boston_mahesh,</p> <p>Most of your points are silly.</p> <ol> <li><p>Why is filming a fantasy scene in Switzerland or wherever "bad"?</p></li> <li><p>One can argue that Bollywood and other commercial Indian movies only reflect an attitude towards color that is already there in Indian society. The Indian attitude towards "fair color" predates the movies. Perhaps the movies reinforce that attitude but if I were a movie maker sinking millions (of rupees) into making a movie, then you can be sure I'd also try to make sure that my hero/heroine was "acceptable" and there whether you like it or not, color matters. If you are going to blame anyone, blame Indian society.</p></li> </ol> <p>By the way, such attitudes are not unique to Bollywood. Let's take a look at the set of Hollywood actor/actresses. Very representative of the "average" American, are they?</p> <ol> <li>Bollywood movies generally tend to address issues that concern middle-class Indians. Yes, they haven't looked at issues like untouchability (though there was a pre-independence movie <i>Achyut Kanya</i> with a very fair-skinned Devika Rani playing the role of an untouchable girl) and so many others. But given that it mostly addresses the middle-class, it has made movies addressing their concerns. Why do you think so many Indians and many others around the world watch them if it did not address issues which concerned them in some way? Out of sheer boredom? (Yes, I know there's a theory to that effect. But in that case, why have Hollywood movies not been more successful in India?) You might want to take a look at Madhu Kishwar's analysis of these movies and why they appeal to so many, not just in India, here:</li> </ol> <p>http://www.indiatogether.org/manushi/issue139/idea.htm</p> <p>From the conclusion of the article:</p> <p>"Bollywood is much more complex and a far greater agent for positive social change than is commonly acknowledged by those who claim to represent the high culture of India. Reviews of Hindi cinema in avant-guard (sic) intellectual journals like the Economic and Political Weekly accuse our filmmakers of spreading religious obscurantism, Hindu fundamentalism, anti-women attitudes, animosity towards minorities. They are attacked as conservative defenders of an anachronistic status quo. I myself belonged to this category in some measure, as several of my early film reviews testify.</p> <p>The new Brahmins of India are embarrassed by the worldview of Bollywood as well as aggressive in their disapproval of its value system. Is it not a case of a repeat of the hostility of the Brahminical orthodoxy towards the popular upsurge of bhakti in the medieval period - with just this one difference: the new Brahmins of today are not rooted in Sanskrit learning. They are the products of elite English medium schools and colleges. Consequently, their manners and tastes resemble those of their intellectual tutors in the West."</p> Boston_mahesh,

Most of your points are silly.

  1. Why is filming a fantasy scene in Switzerland or wherever “bad”?

  2. One can argue that Bollywood and other commercial Indian movies only reflect an attitude towards color that is already there in Indian society. The Indian attitude towards “fair color” predates the movies. Perhaps the movies reinforce that attitude but if I were a movie maker sinking millions (of rupees) into making a movie, then you can be sure I’d also try to make sure that my hero/heroine was “acceptable” and there whether you like it or not, color matters. If you are going to blame anyone, blame Indian society.

By the way, such attitudes are not unique to Bollywood. Let’s take a look at the set of Hollywood actor/actresses. Very representative of the “average” American, are they?

  1. Bollywood movies generally tend to address issues that concern middle-class Indians. Yes, they haven’t looked at issues like untouchability (though there was a pre-independence movie Achyut Kanya with a very fair-skinned Devika Rani playing the role of an untouchable girl) and so many others. But given that it mostly addresses the middle-class, it has made movies addressing their concerns. Why do you think so many Indians and many others around the world watch them if it did not address issues which concerned them in some way? Out of sheer boredom? (Yes, I know there’s a theory to that effect. But in that case, why have Hollywood movies not been more successful in India?) You might want to take a look at Madhu Kishwar’s analysis of these movies and why they appeal to so many, not just in India, here:

http://www.indiatogether.org/manushi/issue139/idea.htm

From the conclusion of the article:

“Bollywood is much more complex and a far greater agent for positive social change than is commonly acknowledged by those who claim to represent the high culture of India. Reviews of Hindi cinema in avant-guard (sic) intellectual journals like the Economic and Political Weekly accuse our filmmakers of spreading religious obscurantism, Hindu fundamentalism, anti-women attitudes, animosity towards minorities. They are attacked as conservative defenders of an anachronistic status quo. I myself belonged to this category in some measure, as several of my early film reviews testify.

The new Brahmins of India are embarrassed by the worldview of Bollywood as well as aggressive in their disapproval of its value system. Is it not a case of a repeat of the hostility of the Brahminical orthodoxy towards the popular upsurge of bhakti in the medieval period – with just this one difference: the new Brahmins of today are not rooted in Sanskrit learning. They are the products of elite English medium schools and colleges. Consequently, their manners and tastes resemble those of their intellectual tutors in the West.”

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By: gaddeswarup http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/04/review_global_b/comment-page-1/#comment-241612 gaddeswarup Tue, 09 Jun 2009 10:31:22 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5807#comment-241612 <p>At some stage, can you also comment on Brian Larkin's articles on the influence of Indian films in Nigeria and his book "Signal and Noise". Thanks</p> At some stage, can you also comment on Brian Larkin’s articles on the influence of Indian films in Nigeria and his book “Signal and Noise”. Thanks

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By: Nandini http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/04/review_global_b/comment-page-1/#comment-241512 Nandini Sun, 07 Jun 2009 13:57:33 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5807#comment-241512 <p>In the early 90s I was a first year student at Presidency college in Kolkata, and there was a masters student at CU called Sangita Gopal. She directed a Shakespearean play, for a contest sponsored by the British Council, I took part in - Merry Wives of Windsor, Bengali jatra style, it was the winner. She was a dynamo of energy, played a brilliant Falstaff (yes) and struck my teenage self as a bit of a genius. If this is the same person, her classes must be great fun and inspiring! I occasionally wondered where she went.</p> In the early 90s I was a first year student at Presidency college in Kolkata, and there was a masters student at CU called Sangita Gopal. She directed a Shakespearean play, for a contest sponsored by the British Council, I took part in – Merry Wives of Windsor, Bengali jatra style, it was the winner. She was a dynamo of energy, played a brilliant Falstaff (yes) and struck my teenage self as a bit of a genius. If this is the same person, her classes must be great fun and inspiring! I occasionally wondered where she went.

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By: boston_mahesh http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/04/review_global_b/comment-page-1/#comment-241506 boston_mahesh Sun, 07 Jun 2009 06:00:40 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5807#comment-241506 <p>Guys,</p> <p>I've seen good movies as well, that are quite original, for the most part. I <em>LOVED</em> Munna Bhai MBBS. It was quite original, but a little long. Still, it was a very original and hilarious film. I wish that the compressed the action into a 120 minutes (not 180 minutes).</p> <p>But the bulk of Indian movies have a lot of bad attributes: 1. The 'fantasy' scenes are filmed in exotic locations like Switzerland, UK, or USA.<br /> 2. These movies deify light-skin color in India. Many of the actors are bi-racial (mixed with whites, but not blacks or East Asians). Also, and this is a common theme amongst us all over here, why are they all light-skinned? I demand black-skinned/brown-skinned Indians. The Kansan farmers can have their wheat-complexion. Give a chocoholic like me the swarthy and sweet. 3. These movis do <em>NOT</em> push the societal envelope, from my perspective, on hard/gritty topics. Topics such as: Linguistic differences, female subjugation, religious difference, over-population, or even Islamic alienation within India.</p> <p>On the other hand, I'd love to see the following: 1. Use Indian films as a vehicle to develop our good culture. 2. Push the societal envelope and challenge society. 3. Inspire the local Indian population to do something GREAT - like aspire for a good education and change the world. 4. Inspire good values/ethics.</p> Guys,

I’ve seen good movies as well, that are quite original, for the most part. I LOVED Munna Bhai MBBS. It was quite original, but a little long. Still, it was a very original and hilarious film. I wish that the compressed the action into a 120 minutes (not 180 minutes).

But the bulk of Indian movies have a lot of bad attributes: 1. The ‘fantasy’ scenes are filmed in exotic locations like Switzerland, UK, or USA.
2. These movies deify light-skin color in India. Many of the actors are bi-racial (mixed with whites, but not blacks or East Asians). Also, and this is a common theme amongst us all over here, why are they all light-skinned? I demand black-skinned/brown-skinned Indians. The Kansan farmers can have their wheat-complexion. Give a chocoholic like me the swarthy and sweet. 3. These movis do NOT push the societal envelope, from my perspective, on hard/gritty topics. Topics such as: Linguistic differences, female subjugation, religious difference, over-population, or even Islamic alienation within India.

On the other hand, I’d love to see the following: 1. Use Indian films as a vehicle to develop our good culture. 2. Push the societal envelope and challenge society. 3. Inspire the local Indian population to do something GREAT – like aspire for a good education and change the world. 4. Inspire good values/ethics.

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By: zee http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/04/review_global_b/comment-page-1/#comment-241418 zee Sat, 06 Jun 2009 00:17:41 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5807#comment-241418 <p>I still find myself hesitating to call the Hindi movies as bollywood movies....just doesn't seem right. It feels like 'Bollywood' is similar to 'Hollywood wannabes', when the movies are of different flavor (and I am not fan of most), but Sameer's list rocks!</p> I still find myself hesitating to call the Hindi movies as bollywood movies….just doesn’t seem right. It feels like ‘Bollywood’ is similar to ‘Hollywood wannabes’, when the movies are of different flavor (and I am not fan of most), but Sameer’s list rocks!

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By: sameer http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/04/review_global_b/comment-page-1/#comment-241415 sameer Fri, 05 Jun 2009 23:28:39 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5807#comment-241415 <blockquote>The best Indian-themed movies do *NOT* come from bollywood</blockquote> <p>Some really good recent Indian-themed movies I could remember</p> <p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU_YTpV4z0E">Taare Zameen Par</a> (abt dyslexia and the kind of pressures parents, esp indian, put on their children.....easily one of the best movies i have watched in a long time. directed by aamir khan.....watch the linked song) <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3ATqmHseME">Gulal</a> (abt the rajputana movement..director is anurag kashyap, very original writer & director - see DevD, No Smoking.......the lyrics of the linked song are really funny) <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6jSRni9cqw">Welcome to Sajjanpur</a> (Shyam Benegal) <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI3E1jneWvg">A Wednesday </a>(terrorism in india.......naseerudin shah, anupam kher) <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_cwH06HVcI">Rang De Basanti</a> (youth in india, patriotism, politics.......one of my favorite movies of recent time) <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBRdnzUziu4">Lage Raho Munnabhai</a> (gandhi.....a very funny and thought-provoking film) <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AI9r0pnAhs">Matrubhoomi</a> (female infanticide and its impact) <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSOMa__Tneo">Khosla ka Ghosla</a> (funny look at land grabbing) and of course Lagaan & Swades</p> <p>and these are all just the hindi films........</p> The best Indian-themed movies do *NOT* come from bollywood

Some really good recent Indian-themed movies I could remember

Taare Zameen Par (abt dyslexia and the kind of pressures parents, esp indian, put on their children…..easily one of the best movies i have watched in a long time. directed by aamir khan…..watch the linked song) Gulal (abt the rajputana movement..director is anurag kashyap, very original writer & director – see DevD, No Smoking…….the lyrics of the linked song are really funny) Welcome to Sajjanpur (Shyam Benegal) A Wednesday (terrorism in india…….naseerudin shah, anupam kher) Rang De Basanti (youth in india, patriotism, politics…….one of my favorite movies of recent time) Lage Raho Munnabhai (gandhi…..a very funny and thought-provoking film) Matrubhoomi (female infanticide and its impact) Khosla ka Ghosla (funny look at land grabbing) and of course Lagaan & Swades

and these are all just the hindi films……..

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By: DizzyDesi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/04/review_global_b/comment-page-1/#comment-241410 DizzyDesi Fri, 05 Jun 2009 22:49:17 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5807#comment-241410 <blockquote>The best Indian-themed movies do *NOT* come from bollywood. "Monsoon Wedding" was made by a Canadian-Indian (Mira Nair-ji); "Slumdog" was made by a Scotsman. OTOH, Indian films can only copy, never innovate, and succeeds at promoting a self-loathing amongst us Browns.</blockquote> <p>Monsoon wedding and Slum dog among the best indian themed movies???!! Yeesh! Below par songs, stilted westernized acting, and stereotyped to the wazoo.</p> <p>Slumdog, in particular had way too many WTF moments to be considered a good movie. For example, remember the part where the hero is deeply traumatized by a rioter dressed as Rama, and in the scene this actually turns out to be a kid in a costume similar to a fancy dress competition. How ludicrous was that!</p> <p>And it was'nt even original - it had the same concept as the Spinal tap scene in where the lowered Stonehenge replicas that turned out to be 18 Ft and turned out to be 18 inches, only the farce was intentional in Spinal Tap's case :-)</p> <p>Sure most Bollywood movies are crap. But most western movies with Indian themes are crap. It is simply Sturgeon's law in practice. And there are a few good bollywood movies. And even more good Tamil ones.</p> The best Indian-themed movies do *NOT* come from bollywood. “Monsoon Wedding” was made by a Canadian-Indian (Mira Nair-ji); “Slumdog” was made by a Scotsman. OTOH, Indian films can only copy, never innovate, and succeeds at promoting a self-loathing amongst us Browns.

Monsoon wedding and Slum dog among the best indian themed movies???!! Yeesh! Below par songs, stilted westernized acting, and stereotyped to the wazoo.

Slumdog, in particular had way too many WTF moments to be considered a good movie. For example, remember the part where the hero is deeply traumatized by a rioter dressed as Rama, and in the scene this actually turns out to be a kid in a costume similar to a fancy dress competition. How ludicrous was that!

And it was’nt even original – it had the same concept as the Spinal tap scene in where the lowered Stonehenge replicas that turned out to be 18 Ft and turned out to be 18 inches, only the farce was intentional in Spinal Tap’s case :-)

Sure most Bollywood movies are crap. But most western movies with Indian themes are crap. It is simply Sturgeon’s law in practice. And there are a few good bollywood movies. And even more good Tamil ones.

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By: Yoga Fire http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/06/04/review_global_b/comment-page-1/#comment-241389 Yoga Fire Fri, 05 Jun 2009 20:12:59 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5807#comment-241389 <blockquote>Indian films can only copy, never innovate, and succeeds at promoting a self-loathing amongst us Browns. </blockquote> <p>I'll take this to heart when I go to watch "Transformers 2," the sequel to the movie based on the 1980s cartoon series based on the comic book based on the toy-line.</p> <p>The innovative ways in which Michael bay manages to blow stuff up and put Megan Fox into ridiculously impractical but mighty hot outfits will surely boggle the mind. Won't encourage any self-loathing among girls who don't look like swimsuit models either.</p> Indian films can only copy, never innovate, and succeeds at promoting a self-loathing amongst us Browns.

I’ll take this to heart when I go to watch “Transformers 2,” the sequel to the movie based on the 1980s cartoon series based on the comic book based on the toy-line.

The innovative ways in which Michael bay manages to blow stuff up and put Megan Fox into ridiculously impractical but mighty hot outfits will surely boggle the mind. Won’t encourage any self-loathing among girls who don’t look like swimsuit models either.

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