Comments on: Healthcare Innovation in the Desh http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/05/12/healthcare_inno/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Ramachandra http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/05/12/healthcare_inno/comment-page-1/#comment-285285 Ramachandra Mon, 04 Jul 2011 23:09:46 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5763#comment-285285 <p>The deeply tragic story, in the news column today, of the little Indian girl who committed suicide so that her organs could be used by her father and brother makes a mockery of this "India Shining" deceit.</p> <p>India has proportionally fewer doctors than even Pakistan, which in turn is below the world average in this department. Nothing here to thump your chest over.</p> The deeply tragic story, in the news column today, of the little Indian girl who committed suicide so that her organs could be used by her father and brother makes a mockery of this “India Shining” deceit.

India has proportionally fewer doctors than even Pakistan, which in turn is below the world average in this department. Nothing here to thump your chest over.

]]>
By: Malathi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/05/12/healthcare_inno/comment-page-1/#comment-244706 Malathi Tue, 28 Jul 2009 17:07:24 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5763#comment-244706 <p>It is not the money. In our case, we have the funds, the political will (push actually) and Faculty level leadership. We just don't have enough clinical cases. Given our catchment area population, there are only so many patients from the real world--therfore, only so many hospitals, so many wards, so many outpatient clinics and so many practitioners. For example, there are only so many trauma surgeries seen in a year; 'X' number of residents and 'Y' number of students need to see them; and 52 weeks in a calendar year before 'X' and 'Y' will have to rotate through the trauma ward. Only so many clinicians can devote their time to teaching in between taking care of their patients. There is a whole body of literature on PubMed. Search using keywords 'medical class expansion.' My own group has a paper coming out on this topic soon.</p> <p>Personally, I think US and Canada will continue to rely on International Medical Graduates whose education is for the most part subsidized by other governments. So, personally, I believe some sort of partnership and exchange between educational institutions (even if they are for-profit institutions) in countries like India will minimize the crisis to health human resource in other countries. Partnership will also ensure that North American standards of accreditation can be met and students' future and career (read 'repatriation') need not be left to chance alone. With its huge population base, Indian institutions have access to people seeking primary or tertiary healthcare.</p> It is not the money. In our case, we have the funds, the political will (push actually) and Faculty level leadership. We just don’t have enough clinical cases. Given our catchment area population, there are only so many patients from the real world–therfore, only so many hospitals, so many wards, so many outpatient clinics and so many practitioners. For example, there are only so many trauma surgeries seen in a year; ‘X’ number of residents and ‘Y’ number of students need to see them; and 52 weeks in a calendar year before ‘X’ and ‘Y’ will have to rotate through the trauma ward. Only so many clinicians can devote their time to teaching in between taking care of their patients. There is a whole body of literature on PubMed. Search using keywords ‘medical class expansion.’ My own group has a paper coming out on this topic soon.

Personally, I think US and Canada will continue to rely on International Medical Graduates whose education is for the most part subsidized by other governments. So, personally, I believe some sort of partnership and exchange between educational institutions (even if they are for-profit institutions) in countries like India will minimize the crisis to health human resource in other countries. Partnership will also ensure that North American standards of accreditation can be met and students’ future and career (read ‘repatriation’) need not be left to chance alone. With its huge population base, Indian institutions have access to people seeking primary or tertiary healthcare.

]]>
By: boston_mahesh http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/05/12/healthcare_inno/comment-page-1/#comment-244698 boston_mahesh Tue, 28 Jul 2009 15:29:59 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5763#comment-244698 <p><b> 8 · Malathi on July 27, 2009 06:26 PM · Direct link While the AAMC has called for a 15-20% increase in current numbers of graduating physicians in the US, there are considerable challenges in carrying out this task. My university is in the midst of one such expansion and every teaching and learning resource at every level of the medical education process is strained (e.g, skilled human resources, support staff, clerkship (clinical) placements, physical space especially for small-group sessions, lab space, clinical case:student ratio, clinical preceptor:student ratio, etc.) To add to the challenge is the looming strict accreditation process... </b></p> <p>Malathi, Tell me which school does <em>NOT</em> feel strained? Moreover, tell me which corporation, businessmen, scientist, truck-driver, etc. who doesn't feel that they need more resources. It's simply human nature to not think that you have enough, or that you need more.</p> <p>The medical schools in the USA are no different than any other organization in that they don't feel they can't find enough good people and funding. Absolutely <em>every</em> organization would feel the same, I'm sure. If the medical schools are cramped and under-resourced here, than I'm sure that the situation is 5 times worse in the Caribbeans or India, where many of our finest comes from.</p> 8 · Malathi on July 27, 2009 06:26 PM · Direct link While the AAMC has called for a 15-20% increase in current numbers of graduating physicians in the US, there are considerable challenges in carrying out this task. My university is in the midst of one such expansion and every teaching and learning resource at every level of the medical education process is strained (e.g, skilled human resources, support staff, clerkship (clinical) placements, physical space especially for small-group sessions, lab space, clinical case:student ratio, clinical preceptor:student ratio, etc.) To add to the challenge is the looming strict accreditation process…

Malathi, Tell me which school does NOT feel strained? Moreover, tell me which corporation, businessmen, scientist, truck-driver, etc. who doesn’t feel that they need more resources. It’s simply human nature to not think that you have enough, or that you need more.

The medical schools in the USA are no different than any other organization in that they don’t feel they can’t find enough good people and funding. Absolutely every organization would feel the same, I’m sure. If the medical schools are cramped and under-resourced here, than I’m sure that the situation is 5 times worse in the Caribbeans or India, where many of our finest comes from.

]]>
By: Malathi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/05/12/healthcare_inno/comment-page-1/#comment-244657 Malathi Tue, 28 Jul 2009 00:26:08 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5763#comment-244657 <blockquote>DOUBLE THE NUMBER OF MEDICAL STUDENTS WHO GRADUATE EACH YEAR </blockquote> <p>While the AAMC has called for a 15-20% increase in current numbers of graduating physicians in the US, <a href="http://www.aamc.org/data/aib/aibissues/aibvol8_no2.pdf">there are considerable challenges in carrying out this task</a>. My university is in the midst of one such expansion and every teaching and learning resource at every level of the medical education process is strained (e.g, skilled human resources, support staff, clerkship (clinical) placements, physical space especially for small-group sessions, lab space, clinical case:student ratio, clinical preceptor:student ratio, etc.) To add to the challenge is the looming strict accreditation process...</p> <p>It seems like, here too, <a href="http://www.washingtontimesglobal.com/content/story/antigua-barbuda/325/world-class-medical-school">India is seizing the day</a>.</p> <blockquote>The AUA College of Medicine offers a further opportunity to expand a candidate’s worldwide education by way of its affiliation with the Kasturba Medical College in Manipal, India. Candidates have the option of enrolling at either the Basic Science Campus in Antigua or the Kasturba Basic Science Campus in Manipal. Kasturba is one of the top three medical schools in India.</blockquote> <p>[<a href="http://www.washingtontimesglobal.com/content/story/antigua-barbuda/325/world-class-medical-school">Link</a>]</p> DOUBLE THE NUMBER OF MEDICAL STUDENTS WHO GRADUATE EACH YEAR

While the AAMC has called for a 15-20% increase in current numbers of graduating physicians in the US, there are considerable challenges in carrying out this task. My university is in the midst of one such expansion and every teaching and learning resource at every level of the medical education process is strained (e.g, skilled human resources, support staff, clerkship (clinical) placements, physical space especially for small-group sessions, lab space, clinical case:student ratio, clinical preceptor:student ratio, etc.) To add to the challenge is the looming strict accreditation process…

It seems like, here too, India is seizing the day.

The AUA College of Medicine offers a further opportunity to expand a candidate’s worldwide education by way of its affiliation with the Kasturba Medical College in Manipal, India. Candidates have the option of enrolling at either the Basic Science Campus in Antigua or the Kasturba Basic Science Campus in Manipal. Kasturba is one of the top three medical schools in India.

[Link]

]]>
By: boston_mahesh http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/05/12/healthcare_inno/comment-page-1/#comment-244654 boston_mahesh Mon, 27 Jul 2009 23:01:18 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5763#comment-244654 <p>One of the first things that we can do is DOUBLE THE NUMBER OF MEDICAL STUDENTS WHO GRADUATE EACH YEAR from 18,000 to 36,000.</p> <p>In a 2003 study Dean Baker, who is co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, estimates that by adding roughly 100,000 physicians to our current pool of about 760,000, we could pull doctors’ salaries down from an average of $203,000 to somewhere between $74,000 and $126,000. For the average middle-class American family of four he reckons that would lead to savings of $2,200 to $3,700 per year</p> <p>One argument against increasing the number of MDs in the USA is this: The USA (~2.0 MDs per 1000 people) has more MDs per capita than other developed nations, like Japan (~2.5/1000) and UK (~2.3/1000). However, even these 2 countries have shortages of MDs! By suggesting that we're better off than the Japanese is like a lung cancer patient bragging to a pancreatic cancer patient that he/she is healthier than the pancreatic patient ,when in fact, they <em>BOTH</em> are sick! Moreover, about 25% of our MDs are foreign born. This means that we really only <em>PRODUCE</em> 1.87 MDs per 1000 people, which is much less than Japan (which doesn't 'import' MDs) and UK (which does 'import' them).</p> One of the first things that we can do is DOUBLE THE NUMBER OF MEDICAL STUDENTS WHO GRADUATE EACH YEAR from 18,000 to 36,000.

In a 2003 study Dean Baker, who is co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, estimates that by adding roughly 100,000 physicians to our current pool of about 760,000, we could pull doctors’ salaries down from an average of $203,000 to somewhere between $74,000 and $126,000. For the average middle-class American family of four he reckons that would lead to savings of $2,200 to $3,700 per year

One argument against increasing the number of MDs in the USA is this: The USA (~2.0 MDs per 1000 people) has more MDs per capita than other developed nations, like Japan (~2.5/1000) and UK (~2.3/1000). However, even these 2 countries have shortages of MDs! By suggesting that we’re better off than the Japanese is like a lung cancer patient bragging to a pancreatic cancer patient that he/she is healthier than the pancreatic patient ,when in fact, they BOTH are sick! Moreover, about 25% of our MDs are foreign born. This means that we really only PRODUCE 1.87 MDs per 1000 people, which is much less than Japan (which doesn’t ‘import’ MDs) and UK (which does ‘import’ them).

]]>
By: Catholic Guilt http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/05/12/healthcare_inno/comment-page-1/#comment-239354 Catholic Guilt Wed, 13 May 2009 19:12:15 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5763#comment-239354 <pre><code>I really like the new Indian healthcare model. But I'm not sure that it would work here, even though many people cannot afford <b>any</b> health care. If a hospital avoids administering an expensive test that may have prevented a complication, the hospital and the doctor are probably going to get sued. I don't think the average American, who may or may not have insurance, would be able to accept a situation in which a cure is out there, but some health care bureaucracy determines that it is too expensive. =/ </code></pre> <p>I should have gone for law.</p> I really like the new Indian healthcare model. But I'm not sure that it would work here, even though many people cannot afford <b>any</b> health care. If a hospital avoids administering an expensive test that may have prevented a complication, the hospital and the doctor are probably going to get sued. I don't think the average American, who may or may not have insurance, would be able to accept a situation in which a cure is out there, but some health care bureaucracy determines that it is too expensive. =/

I should have gone for law.

]]>
By: Neo http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/05/12/healthcare_inno/comment-page-1/#comment-239328 Neo Wed, 13 May 2009 10:51:34 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5763#comment-239328 <p>I've had mixed, but mostly positive healthcare experiences after I moved to India from the US. I think the biggest advantage in India is that (at least in the good hospitals), there is always an escalation path to get good care, especially if you are willing to pay a little extra and be nice to people.</p> <p>In the US, it always felt like I was dealing with a nameless, faceless system that didn't understand a word that came out of my mouth.</p> I’ve had mixed, but mostly positive healthcare experiences after I moved to India from the US. I think the biggest advantage in India is that (at least in the good hospitals), there is always an escalation path to get good care, especially if you are willing to pay a little extra and be nice to people.

In the US, it always felt like I was dealing with a nameless, faceless system that didn’t understand a word that came out of my mouth.

]]>
By: AV http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/05/12/healthcare_inno/comment-page-1/#comment-239196 AV Tue, 12 May 2009 21:11:25 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5763#comment-239196 <p>Litigation is another problem. Patient outcome is all that matters, so why bother with process.</p> Litigation is another problem. Patient outcome is all that matters, so why bother with process.

]]>
By: Vinod http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/05/12/healthcare_inno/comment-page-1/#comment-239186 Vinod Tue, 12 May 2009 20:59:31 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5763#comment-239186 <blockquote>Health insurance is a market failure. You're never going to see decentralized or entrepreneurial delivery systems because most people can't afford to pay out of pocket for the latest medical care.</blockquote> <p>So why not look for ways to decentralize health insurance & make it more entrepreneural? For starters, it's current tax law that makes health insurance a B2B market (e.g. something your employer buys for you) rather than a B2C market (something you buy for yourself like car insurance). You don't worry about losing your auto insurance when you lose your job...</p> Health insurance is a market failure. You’re never going to see decentralized or entrepreneurial delivery systems because most people can’t afford to pay out of pocket for the latest medical care.

So why not look for ways to decentralize health insurance & make it more entrepreneural? For starters, it’s current tax law that makes health insurance a B2B market (e.g. something your employer buys for you) rather than a B2C market (something you buy for yourself like car insurance). You don’t worry about losing your auto insurance when you lose your job…

]]>
By: Yoga Fire http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2009/05/12/healthcare_inno/comment-page-1/#comment-239169 Yoga Fire Tue, 12 May 2009 20:04:58 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5763#comment-239169 <blockquote>Will the benefits of a more decentralized, entrepreneurial delivery model find their way to the US? Alas, current political winds seem to be blowing in the opposite direction --> towards even more centralized & nationalized delivery processes in the name of reducing costs and improving coverage.</blockquote> <p>Health insurance is a market failure. You're never going to see decentralized or entrepreneurial delivery systems because most people can't afford to pay out of pocket for the latest medical care. You need a risk pooling mechanism to create a market for new products. Even now the US healthcare system is dominated by just a handful of insurance companies. That is neither decentralized nor entrepreneurial. There is no extra virtue in centralizing something under a corporate bureaucracy rather than a governmental one.</p> <p>The only reason India can get away with making the delivery cheaper is because Americans are subsidizing the R&D on the front end to create the new products in the first place. The Euros get the best of both worlds. Good access to care through a universal system AND good access to new technology through American incentive structures.</p> Will the benefits of a more decentralized, entrepreneurial delivery model find their way to the US? Alas, current political winds seem to be blowing in the opposite direction –> towards even more centralized & nationalized delivery processes in the name of reducing costs and improving coverage.

Health insurance is a market failure. You’re never going to see decentralized or entrepreneurial delivery systems because most people can’t afford to pay out of pocket for the latest medical care. You need a risk pooling mechanism to create a market for new products. Even now the US healthcare system is dominated by just a handful of insurance companies. That is neither decentralized nor entrepreneurial. There is no extra virtue in centralizing something under a corporate bureaucracy rather than a governmental one.

The only reason India can get away with making the delivery cheaper is because Americans are subsidizing the R&D on the front end to create the new products in the first place. The Euros get the best of both worlds. Good access to care through a universal system AND good access to new technology through American incentive structures.

]]>