Maybe you aren’t the “best and the brightest”, just the cheap and cheapest. FYI, American I.T. professionals don’t really like you. We just act like we do so we don’t get fired by the managers who brought you scabs into our I.T. departments.

Behind your back, we mock your odor, your thick accents, and your dress. We have funny nicknames for you. We drag our feet when you need something like a login. Some of us put urine in your tea.

Please go home. We have mortgages and families. You have a suitcase and greed for gold, plus a need to command a large dowry.

samir – yes I know. But I have no desire to live in the USA I thought it was for only 10K australian citizens and it is an ongoing total not a yearly cap ??

In a way Ramesh is like indian shiv sena. These kind of policies in India is what has hindered India’s development. I really dont know why they would like America to fall so much. I can never forget the awe of all these top-notch research scholars that I saw from across the world in the university corridors. At that time, I felt US was literally stealing them,it is. But removing H1b would result in them not being able to contribute any more. As such there isnt enough research facilities in their country which is why they move to this place.may be they will move to australia and start arguing against us migration like melbourne desi.

I do have to say this, as a country I have grown to love this place for what it has stood for. innovation, opportunity – american dream. This place is one of the very few such countries today and I thought rest of the world should learn from US but now this would make us follow india.

In a way Ramesh is like indian shiv sena. These kind of policies in India is what has hindered India’s development. I really dont know why they would like America to fall so much. I can never forget the awe of all these top-notch research scholars that I saw from across the world in the university corridors. At that time, I felt US was literally stealing them,it is. But removing H1b would result in them not being able to contribute any more. As such there isnt enough research facilities in their country which is why they move to this place.may be they will move to australia and start arguing against us migration like melbourne desi.

Let me explain. However flawed the demand of self imposed virtuosity was, the US has prospered through reaching out to other countries. Today you see this notion turned on its head—-despite ample evidence that the welcoming immigration policy has paid off hugely, Ramesh wants to focus on a few bad eggs, gets his facts almost completely wrong to support xenophobia, and fence the borders to “prevent depression of wages”. Why is this wrong?

I usually think of the following analogy when I think of arguments like Ramesh’s—what separates a savage justice system from a civilized one is its focus. A savage system is intent on punishing the perpetrators, a civilized one is doubly careful not to punish someone innocent even at the expense of potentially letting a few criminals go free. Human history will amply demonstrate which one works.

I don’t expect to convince Ramesh and the like, nor am I interested. I have nothing at stake in this matter, and I doubt logic is the reason for Ramesh’s diatribes.

But let me add one thing about depression of wages. It is hardly about H1-B or local. If you expect to get paid in six figures—twice a fresh Phd in pure sciences, three times a cop who risks his life every other day, four times that of a school teacher with a decade of experience—for a job whose skills you can pick up in a year or two of community college, your company isn’t going to be very competitive. What many have here is a ridiculous sense of entitlement, not a real grievance.

That said, a majority of H1-Bs are legitimate—and part of the process involves verification with the USCIS that you cannot hire a native, that you are paying at least the market wages for the job, and you made reasonable efforts to hire a native. As with any system, there are some who game the system, no doubts about that.

But, it makes no sense to keep all guests out because there are a few who do it wrong. So, the shifting change in tone—from a policy where the US tries to welcome immigrants as far as possible, to one that toys with immigrants and their lives since you are giving them the privilege of entering—bothers me. It is unfortunate that every society succumbs to the whims of its idiots, but I hope there is an exception in this case.

I live in US. I studied here and I have been working for semiconductor companies for the past 5 years. And Your experience is from a different side and looks like a different time.

I acknowledge the different side but I saw in all these comments,that the scenario that I see isnt adequately represented. You say that is a small bunch. I disagree.

And whatever I have argued back, all you have argued back is by calling me ignorant, if i say what i see that makes me ignorant. 1. I know that I couldnt get hired as an intern as an F1 in 2002.Things did change slighlty better by 2003 but the original company changed its policy only in 2004. 2. I have friends working in various semiconductors and other popular companies like microsoft, yahoo, google and so on.That this sizable chunk is ignored in this discussion is the only reason I wrote. 3. I just checked my first h1 paper, it does only say INS. this was in 2004.

Except for the bob speculation where I just tried fitting the scenerio with what I have seen around, rest of it is my personal experience. Ponniyin selvan above is correct. in the beginnning,every one gets their visa from the 65000 visas only after that the if there are applications of F1 remaining those get through the 20000 visas. If you left USA long ago,things have changed. Lot more grad students are entering from india and they are making this transition.

It is a specialized visa. A data entry person should not be hired through H1b(though I am told this does happen). it was specifically to meet the specialized needs. If there is misuse prevent that and besides as I say face the consequence of these companies opening offices in other countries, that is much cheaper than even paying half of the local salary in the current scenario.

As of today, this whole bill doesnt affect me. I just wanted to prevent the picture being all one-sided.

” What it means is that if they need a bunch of half dead monkeys to test widgets they will get them in for it.” that bunch of half dead monkeys being hired is a problem,there are clear restrictions against this.

I dont have time to look for numbers but I do remember reading there is a serious gap between the number of engineers India and china churn out to the ones US churns out.

H1 visa is purely for the US needs. It is to ensure US companies dont lose out their edge because of shortage of specialized skill set. As far as that goes the final bill that got passed on doesnt affect it. infact, it is redundant, the whole h1b process should take care of this as i said.

Dude,

for all your diatribe against H1Bs you are kinda not strong on facts. F1 to H1 visas are still counted in the 65K limit, just that they can make use of another 20K limit in case of students educated in the US. And it is a recent rule. Another exception I know is that any H1 visas offered to academic institutions are not counted for the limit.

If you think about the number of Indian students entering US campuses every year (one year they were more than 80000, and it is just the Indian students) and they would enter the job market after a couple (or 4) of years you would realise that F1 to H1 is not a miniscule portion of H1 visas.

Just as I said H1 is not a right but a privilege I think you need to realise people on H1 visas are not the root cause of all evil.

What the gal from Silicon Valley says is true. It is not quite easy to find qualified American candidates in certain areas.

WHat s UICIS?. Did you mean USCIS?. USCIS is previously called as INS (Immigration and Naturalization Service) and only after 9/11 was re-orged with the new Homeland security department and got a new name. Are you a new immigrant or do you pretend to be one?.

I do agree H1b is a privilege not a right. I see it as a give and take between the US and the H1-b visa holder. Let me just point out how.

H1b visa is really not a privilege.. it is a need based program for the benefit of the United States and not meant to serve as an immigration channel for the privileged. What it means is that if they need a bunch of half dead monkeys to test widgets they will get them in for it. If they need a few genius to split atoms they’ll get them too. It’s got nothing to do (and should have nothing to do) with the rest of the world and availability or how desperate they are to get into this economy. But you must be talking about how it’s not a birthright.. it’s more of an opportunity and an avenue. Driving on the roads is a privilege..

I am of the F1,H1 route. I work for a semiconductor company and honestly as far as I know there are simply not enough american citizens to meet the demand and supply in this area.

The F1 to H1 visas are not counted in the 65k awarded annually each year. The F1 to H1 conversions are a fraction of the total H1′s awarded each year and don’t really make any serious impact on opportunities for the locals. I don’t really know about the semi conductor industry, you could be right.. may be there is a real need there. But is there an effort to nurture or encourage local talent?

During the Last recession there were restrictions by big companies against H1-b and I know several companies ended up opening branches in India and China.

During the last recession.. there were no such restrictions. What are you trying to say? If they stop h1 visas, the jobs will flow to India and China? Won’t they eventually anyways? But that is at best a wild speculation.. but that is another debate. This debate is about if H1′s hurt local talent and depress wages.

When I came to this country for education just few years ago, there was hardly any opportunity for my chosen field of work back home. Now, I could pretty much do the same job that I get to do it here. Hasnt the US lost out its edginess?”

Sure, it has, and if it continues to rely on alien workers for hi-tech skills it will continue to do so.

Also I know I am paid as much as any American. else, I can move to a company that would offer me better, H1b visa status allows me to do that. I am not going to offer my services for lesser money as well. An H1-b worker is more expensive due to all the immigrant and lawyer cost associated. I do believe people with similar background would constitute a significant part of the H1-b visas. Ignoring these cases and concentrating only on the other part is propaganda than making an argument.

I am not denying that there is misuse. The companies you state are heavily involved in it.But that is the hole that INS should prevent. There is labor ceritication process as part of H1-b.The INS should be able to filter out these set of applications. They have the power to monitor pay checks(dont they?) to ensure the system is not misused.

I’m sorry this shows how delusional you are, you should really read about this issue before making wild claims. btw it’s UICIS not INS.

Let us be honest here, even if they make LCA more stringent, the company will simply offshore. because it is cheaper and more profitable for the company. Which is what probably Bob who got fired wants as a share holder in wallstreet. I cant believe the theory that some newbee got hired as Bob’s replacement. This is the only way the scenario would have happened. Normally,companies cutoff middle level mangement as the first step in employee reduction program. So Bob got affected. Normally, new college graduates arent as easily affected by the hriing freeze because they are cheap. So the newbie got hired not as a replacement but completely two irrelevant incidents. Their nationalities helped people who want to create conspiracy theories such as these.

Your ignorance continues to astound me. Perhaps if you got out of school and worked a real job for a few years you’ll know better.

And if US does get all protectionist then I guess other countries should start becoming protectionist in terms of trade and may be US companies shouldnt be allowed to sell products in these countries and so on. Till date, American companies are the biggest benefactors of this globalization and as a result the American who lives on social security or gets employed by these American Mncs.

This really takes the cake. You can’t pack that many absurd statements in one little paragraph. Are you sure you really are a grad student?

This conversation is getting really absurd. I quit! Bye – Bye!