I don’t understand. The Pathans and other Pakistanis purportedly came to protect Kashmiri Islamic honour, and proceeded to achieve this by raping, killing, looting and burning their way through the state (Rape of Baramula- October 1947). Very strange modus operandi indeed.

To somehow insinuate that the Valley Kashmiris were supporting the Indian army is laughable at best.

Between these fits of irrational laughter, the Pakistani military leadership came up with …(drumroll)…Operation Gibraltar.

nm

So, if india is confident that the people of kashmir will vote to remain a part of india, why not let them vote then?

Of course my friend. All you have to do is move your Scythian and Pathan chums, AND the Pak army out of POK and ask taller-than- mountain friends to hand over Aksai Chin,. Then we would be doing it by the book . There was a reason why India had agreed to a plebiscite when it did. Pakistan stalled it at the time. Alas, that ship has sailed. On a related note, wouldn’t it be fun to have a Balochistan plebiscite?

Acually, in Jammu and Kashmir, they did vote – in 1956 (not sure of the exact date) via an elected Constituent Assembly that ratified the Union with India, with the famous (or infamous, depending on your POV) special provisions. Unfortunately, that referendum only applies to Indian Jammu and Kashmir and has yet to be conducted in Pakistani Kashmir and in Chinese Kashmir. Given the demographic changes in both other places, I doubt that a plebiscite will take place anytime soon. In any case, the legality of Jammu and Kashmir’s accession to India is not under dispute. Even the United Nations does not dispute the legality of Hari Singh’s accession to India. It was Nehru, the democrat, who insisted on conducting referenda in all princely states that acceded to India, whether they did so voluntarily or via military action. Hence the referenda in Hyderabad, Goa, etc. This was so that the will of the majority of the people was at least given a voice. Unfortunately, given the invasion and then the three-way split of Jammu and Kashmir, it is impossible to ascertain the will of all of Hari Singh’s original domain, not just the will of bits and pieces of it.

You purport to be a Kashmiri Muslim

pretty clear what “zainab’s” game is from the comments on various threads, i think.

Even though much time has passed since 1947, I would still not misread the recent anti India demonstrations as a desire to live under Pakistani control; we don’t wish to end up like Swat. Indeed, given only a choice between India and Pakistan, I am confident Kashmiris who, last year turned out in large numbers to vote out the ruling par

So, if india is confident that the people of kashmir will vote to remain a part of india, why not let them vote then?

But then, I read this from pagal and wonder who is telling the truth amongst all of you? Are you saying the kashmiri’s will vote against joining india?

“Your comical and ridiculously selective rendition of history omits the fact that there was a massacre of Muslims by the Dogras which set the chains of the infiltration of Pakistani militias into motion. To somehow insinuate that the Valley Kashmiris were supporting the Indian army is laughable at best. You purport to be a Kashmiri Muslim, but your narration is right out of some Bharat Raksha website”.

I’ll leave now before i’m accused of being the famous troll PG!

Jointmechanism wrote: But it seems to me that the precariousness of the deal was built-in, and not accidental.

Yes on the Indian side. It’s hard for a democracy to conduct negotiations in secret and come out with a fait-accompli. The de Klerk-Mandela negotations had to be ratified by white South African voters. And many in Israel never reconciled to the Oslo accords. I don’t think India is not capable of doing what its governemnt tried to do.

But on the Pak side, it matters less. The Kashmir issue is not subject to democratic oversight, as Nawaz Sharif proved in 1999. If the army is on board, nothing else matters.

As for the joint, layered, overlapping soveriegnty — I recall another much-loved long-time Sepia commentor with a different handle used to promote this idea. Too bad he’s not around…

Your comical and ridiculously selective rendition of history omits the fact that there was a massacre of Muslims by the Dogras which set the chains of the infiltration of Pakistani militias into motion. To somehow insinuate that the Valley Kashmiris were supporting the Indian army is laughable at best.

You purport to be a Kashmiri Muslim, but your narration is right out of some Bharat Raksha website.

Reference to POK (Pakistan Occupied Kashmir) makes as much sense as the name of ‘Azad Kashmir’ given to it by Pakistan. I like Pakistan Administered Kashmir or Indian Administered Kashmir better. I think CNN uses ‘Administered’ terminology as well.

You must be new here. The correct terminology is: POK is full of more “muscular” Scythian settlers.

M. Nam

I wish the Pakistanis would stop worrying about us poor Kashmiris [btw, are the pakistani elite aware that the "boys" they sent to help us in 1989, ethnically cleansed kashmir's minority hindu population?], and start worrying about the monster that they created, who is now eating Pakistan from the inside.

We Kashmiris will manage on our own, thank you very much. Like in October 1947, when Pakistani Army regulars, disguised as tribals and armed Pashtuns invaded Kashmir, they were easily able to defeat the small number of Maharaja Hari Singh’s forces, and within days, the Pakistanis controlled the border town of Baramulla and were marching towards the capital city of Srinagar; along the way, they were looting, raping and pillaging anyone unfortunate enough to cross their path, including Muslims and the nuns of the Saint Joseph Convent School in Baramulla. As you know, Nehru, after signing the treaty of accession with Hari Singh, ordered Indian Army to fly into Kashmir where, Kashmiri Muslims, who had just witnessed first hand how much their Muslim brethren from across the border worried about them, helped the Indian Army rid the valley of the aggressors. Of course, how the Indian government failed to capitalize on the goodwill of that time, will go down history as one of the biggest mistakes in India’s history.

Even though much time has passed since 1947, I would still not misread the recent anti India demonstrations as a desire to live under Pakistani control; we don’t wish to end up like Swat. Indeed, given only a choice between India and Pakistan, I am confident Kashmiris who, last year turned out in large numbers to vote out the ruling party; something you can not do if an army general or a mullah is your lord and master, will choose India. So, once again, please stop worrying about us.

p.s. yes, i am aware that there are some kashmiris, particularly the jamat-e-islami variety who want to join pakistan, so that they may one day establish a global caliphate. but thankfully they are few in number and increasingly marginalized.