Comments on: Trickle Down Recessionomics http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/12/05/trickle_down_re/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Dr Amonymous http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/12/05/trickle_down_re/comment-page-1/#comment-223790 Dr Amonymous Sun, 07 Dec 2008 15:52:17 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5546#comment-223790 <blockquote>The healthcare debate is over.</blockquote> <p>Oh contraire - the health care debate, like the global warming debate, and many others, is just beginning. These things have now been acknowledged as a problem by the market, by liberals, by progressives, and by radicals - i.e. everyone except the very small segments that had short-term benefits from postponing solutions to these problems. But now the real games can begin - what will be the ideology and institutional makeup of the health care program? What will be it's overall aim (universal coverage or rationalization of heatlh care financing). Will it disconnect health care from employment or not (which would be a significant advance for labor right and which emplyoers would go along with as well)?</p> <p>Similarly, do you get a global warming initiative that focuses on energy independence but continues to pump out noxious gases (hold the comentary about my writing people - your clever joke is hereby anticipated) and promote food crises, or does it focus on mass transportation, moving away from tyhe car, stronger urban planning practices (see jane jacobs), and reducing consumption above all, with a fair sense of internationalism to boot. And of course there are many other options.</p> <p>All of these problems - which have both pro-market and pro-people and everywhere in between and outside solutions will now be the subject of a REAL debate - if we want one.</p> The healthcare debate is over.

Oh contraire – the health care debate, like the global warming debate, and many others, is just beginning. These things have now been acknowledged as a problem by the market, by liberals, by progressives, and by radicals – i.e. everyone except the very small segments that had short-term benefits from postponing solutions to these problems. But now the real games can begin – what will be the ideology and institutional makeup of the health care program? What will be it’s overall aim (universal coverage or rationalization of heatlh care financing). Will it disconnect health care from employment or not (which would be a significant advance for labor right and which emplyoers would go along with as well)?

Similarly, do you get a global warming initiative that focuses on energy independence but continues to pump out noxious gases (hold the comentary about my writing people – your clever joke is hereby anticipated) and promote food crises, or does it focus on mass transportation, moving away from tyhe car, stronger urban planning practices (see jane jacobs), and reducing consumption above all, with a fair sense of internationalism to boot. And of course there are many other options.

All of these problems – which have both pro-market and pro-people and everywhere in between and outside solutions will now be the subject of a REAL debate – if we want one.

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By: Le Phil Gramme http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/12/05/trickle_down_re/comment-page-1/#comment-223788 Le Phil Gramme Sun, 07 Dec 2008 15:00:09 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5546#comment-223788 <blockquote>everybody working s 35 hour week is a myth.</blockquote> <p>That might be, but <a href="http://robertreich.blogspot.com/2008/12/shall-we-call-it-depression-now.html">we've reached the French ideal</a> here in America in our delightful non-recession.</p> <blockquote> Note also that the length of the typical workweek dropped to 33.5 hours. That's the shortest number of hours since the Department of Labor began keeping records on hours worked, back in 1964. A significant number of people are working part-time who'd rather be working full time. Coupled with those who are too discouraged even to look for work, I'd estimate that the percentage of Americans who need work right now is approaching 11 percent of the workforce. And that percent is likely to raise.</blockquote> everybody working s 35 hour week is a myth.

That might be, but we’ve reached the French ideal here in America in our delightful non-recession.

Note also that the length of the typical workweek dropped to 33.5 hours. That’s the shortest number of hours since the Department of Labor began keeping records on hours worked, back in 1964. A significant number of people are working part-time who’d rather be working full time. Coupled with those who are too discouraged even to look for work, I’d estimate that the percentage of Americans who need work right now is approaching 11 percent of the workforce. And that percent is likely to raise.
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By: Nayagan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/12/05/trickle_down_re/comment-page-1/#comment-223786 Nayagan Sun, 07 Dec 2008 13:58:41 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5546#comment-223786 <p>"so, nayagan, how was that particular congress?"</p> <p>What do you do when visiting family?</p> “so, nayagan, how was that particular congress?”

What do you do when visiting family?

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By: the rest of us http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/12/05/trickle_down_re/comment-page-1/#comment-223785 the rest of us Sun, 07 Dec 2008 13:53:44 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5546#comment-223785 <blockquote>Of course I was <i>associating</i> with highly religious observant</blockquote> <p>so, nayagan, how was that particular <i>congress</i>?</p> Of course I was associating with highly religious observant

so, nayagan, how was that particular congress?

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By: the rest of us http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/12/05/trickle_down_re/comment-page-1/#comment-223783 the rest of us Sun, 07 Dec 2008 13:46:28 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5546#comment-223783 <blockquote>I tend to look at some of his work that is considered more outrageous not as bald statements of his belief, but as logical endpoints of his thought, which he doesn't necessarily expect people to emulate, but serve as an invitation to think about the choices we make in various facets of life, often without any introspection. </blockquote> <p>Certainly the shortest and sweetest exposition of Singer's work I've seen lately.</p> <blockquote>I read recently that Heifer International is helping a Roma community in Slovakia. I hope to donate a goat.</blockquote> <p>good on you! a thoughtful holiday season gesture :) i will be donating to the human fund as usual, and being inventive with that festivus pole.</p> I tend to look at some of his work that is considered more outrageous not as bald statements of his belief, but as logical endpoints of his thought, which he doesn’t necessarily expect people to emulate, but serve as an invitation to think about the choices we make in various facets of life, often without any introspection.

Certainly the shortest and sweetest exposition of Singer’s work I’ve seen lately.

I read recently that Heifer International is helping a Roma community in Slovakia. I hope to donate a goat.

good on you! a thoughtful holiday season gesture :) i will be donating to the human fund as usual, and being inventive with that festivus pole.

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By: bess http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/12/05/trickle_down_re/comment-page-1/#comment-223773 bess Sun, 07 Dec 2008 04:40:27 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5546#comment-223773 <p>Of course I should be saying Roma or Manouches, not Gypsies.</p> <p>I read recently that Heifer International is helping a Roma community in Slovakia. I hope to donate a goat.</p> Of course I should be saying Roma or Manouches, not Gypsies.

I read recently that Heifer International is helping a Roma community in Slovakia. I hope to donate a goat.

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By: bess http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/12/05/trickle_down_re/comment-page-1/#comment-223771 bess Sun, 07 Dec 2008 04:23:44 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5546#comment-223771 <blockquote>There were Gypsy camps outside the city (remember the housing projects are situated at the edges of the city--sketch factor increases as you travel outwards) and gypsy beggars inside the city. I'm not sure how this is a positive legacy of the generous asylum policy, nor am I particularly jazzed about the fact that a good amount French view south asians (especially the 50k-plus sri-lankan tamils living there) as most Americans view the Mexican-Americans living here--likely a cook (no, not the celeb chef or heroic sous-chef but the unlucky fucker who does all the work and gets none of the credit), store clerk or dish-washer (and they're right, sadly.) </blockquote> <p>As for the Gypsy situ, it isn't positive and it isn't generous. It's created trouble. Here's what I understand. (From what I've been told by relatives in central France.) Gypsies can set up camp on your property, tap into your electrical lines, create a mound of trash and you, the property owner, will be the one to pay the electricity they use and be responsible for the clean up when the gypsies have moved on. Needless to say this fact <u>or perception </u> has caused severe resentment against the Gypsies.<br /> The view that South Asians are the Mexicans of France is new to me.</p> <blockquote>We were trying out old-women's clothing in a shop called Damart and the white french lady attending just refused to measure my mother, stating that she could 'eye-ball it' and not backing down even when told that we were from overseas. When a black employee came to the rescue she was promptly scolded by the white employee for 'leaving her post' and then another old french lady waddled by the black employee and exclaimed, "Vive le Obama!" It was all quite bizarre.</blockquote> <p>Gasp...you said old women's clothing. ha. Old waddling French ladies are a crusty bunch. I think she'd have acted that way if your mother were a WASPy American.</p> There were Gypsy camps outside the city (remember the housing projects are situated at the edges of the city–sketch factor increases as you travel outwards) and gypsy beggars inside the city. I’m not sure how this is a positive legacy of the generous asylum policy, nor am I particularly jazzed about the fact that a good amount French view south asians (especially the 50k-plus sri-lankan tamils living there) as most Americans view the Mexican-Americans living here–likely a cook (no, not the celeb chef or heroic sous-chef but the unlucky fucker who does all the work and gets none of the credit), store clerk or dish-washer (and they’re right, sadly.)

As for the Gypsy situ, it isn’t positive and it isn’t generous. It’s created trouble. Here’s what I understand. (From what I’ve been told by relatives in central France.) Gypsies can set up camp on your property, tap into your electrical lines, create a mound of trash and you, the property owner, will be the one to pay the electricity they use and be responsible for the clean up when the gypsies have moved on. Needless to say this fact or perception has caused severe resentment against the Gypsies.
The view that South Asians are the Mexicans of France is new to me.

We were trying out old-women’s clothing in a shop called Damart and the white french lady attending just refused to measure my mother, stating that she could ‘eye-ball it’ and not backing down even when told that we were from overseas. When a black employee came to the rescue she was promptly scolded by the white employee for ‘leaving her post’ and then another old french lady waddled by the black employee and exclaimed, “Vive le Obama!” It was all quite bizarre.

Gasp…you said old women’s clothing. ha. Old waddling French ladies are a crusty bunch. I think she’d have acted that way if your mother were a WASPy American.

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By: Nayagan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/12/05/trickle_down_re/comment-page-1/#comment-223766 Nayagan Sun, 07 Dec 2008 03:53:29 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5546#comment-223766 <p>rahul,</p> <p>i've read it but I can't follow you around that particular mulberry bush. just not my bag.</p> rahul,

i’ve read it but I can’t follow you around that particular mulberry bush. just not my bag.

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By: Jobless http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/12/05/trickle_down_re/comment-page-1/#comment-223765 Jobless Sun, 07 Dec 2008 03:53:08 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5546#comment-223765 <p>The fact is recession in America(if that's what it is officially now) or the general mess <em>is</em> affecting India, either through loss of American clients or due to tightening up of credit for business in India, I don't know.... I can speak of jobs; I am graduating from one of the IITs this year and the campus placement is in season..... companies which <b>are</b> visiting campus this year are recruiting about a fifth or sixth of last year's numbers(and lots of cos aren't visiting at all) and average salaries are down as well..... mass recruiters of yesteryears are coming up with good ones like "we're only visiting this year to maintain our long standing relationship with the institute"</p> The fact is recession in America(if that’s what it is officially now) or the general mess is affecting India, either through loss of American clients or due to tightening up of credit for business in India, I don’t know…. I can speak of jobs; I am graduating from one of the IITs this year and the campus placement is in season….. companies which are visiting campus this year are recruiting about a fifth or sixth of last year’s numbers(and lots of cos aren’t visiting at all) and average salaries are down as well….. mass recruiters of yesteryears are coming up with good ones like “we’re only visiting this year to maintain our long standing relationship with the institute”

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By: Rahul http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/12/05/trickle_down_re/comment-page-1/#comment-223763 Rahul Sun, 07 Dec 2008 03:41:23 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5546#comment-223763 <p>Nayagan, I think it comes down to a difference of perspective on his works. My first exposure to his work was through "Animal Liberation" which is seriously argued on empirical grounds of animal suffering, does not tend to make extreme claims, and does begin with a moderate and carefully written summary of our "specieism" as well as our inconsistency in showing compassion to animals. I tend to look at some of his work that is considered more outrageous not as bald statements of his belief, but as logical endpoints of his thought, which he doesn't necessarily expect people to emulate, but serve as an invitation to think about the choices we make in various facets of life, often without any introspection. This might be a more charitable interpretation than they deserve, but that's how I think of him since I began reading him starting with more serious, moderate and reasonable essays. As for his views on giving, again, while some of his earliest essays were radical, he seems to have moderated many of his ideas substantially into guidelines that regular people can actually follow, without going to the extremes of his earlier posited utilitarian ideas. You might be interested in his essay in the NYT magazine a few years ago: <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/17/magazine/17charity.t.html">What Should a Billionaire Give – and What Should You?</a></p> Nayagan, I think it comes down to a difference of perspective on his works. My first exposure to his work was through “Animal Liberation” which is seriously argued on empirical grounds of animal suffering, does not tend to make extreme claims, and does begin with a moderate and carefully written summary of our “specieism” as well as our inconsistency in showing compassion to animals. I tend to look at some of his work that is considered more outrageous not as bald statements of his belief, but as logical endpoints of his thought, which he doesn’t necessarily expect people to emulate, but serve as an invitation to think about the choices we make in various facets of life, often without any introspection. This might be a more charitable interpretation than they deserve, but that’s how I think of him since I began reading him starting with more serious, moderate and reasonable essays. As for his views on giving, again, while some of his earliest essays were radical, he seems to have moderated many of his ideas substantially into guidelines that regular people can actually follow, without going to the extremes of his earlier posited utilitarian ideas. You might be interested in his essay in the NYT magazine a few years ago: What Should a Billionaire Give – and What Should You?

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