Comments on: Sonal Shah’s statement http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/11/11/sonal_shahs_sta/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Ennis http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/11/11/sonal_shahs_sta/comment-page-2/#comment-220941 Ennis Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:56:09 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5513#comment-220941 <p>Anil,</p> <p>I put most of my views up front. I think she's talented and experienced. I also think that her statement should allay most people's doubts about her involvement in the transition team, especially given that there is no evidence to contradict it. I said that everything I have heard about Sonal and her family has been positive, and I believe it.</p> <p>But I think as a community we have to come to grips with the consequences our diasporic activities have for our political activities in America. Amardeep's post was about Sonal Shah the person. My post was about the important political lessons that Sonal Shah's story has to offer for other ABDs.</p> Anil,

I put most of my views up front. I think she’s talented and experienced. I also think that her statement should allay most people’s doubts about her involvement in the transition team, especially given that there is no evidence to contradict it. I said that everything I have heard about Sonal and her family has been positive, and I believe it.

But I think as a community we have to come to grips with the consequences our diasporic activities have for our political activities in America. Amardeep’s post was about Sonal Shah the person. My post was about the important political lessons that Sonal Shah’s story has to offer for other ABDs.

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By: Ponniyin Selvan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/11/11/sonal_shahs_sta/comment-page-2/#comment-220940 Ponniyin Selvan Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:49:16 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5513#comment-220940 <blockquote>The Indian Army's corroboration in the state sponsored genocide of Kashmiris and now the Bengali Muslims of Assam has been chronicled by numerous intellectuals. I suggest you read Arundhati Roy or attend S.A.R Geelani's seminars at Delhi University. And please, try being a human being first and a Hindu later. </blockquote> <p>yeah right. I guess time for Obama's army to goto war against the Indian Army. BTW, what's up with the caste name. isn't that uncool ?. :-)</p> The Indian Army’s corroboration in the state sponsored genocide of Kashmiris and now the Bengali Muslims of Assam has been chronicled by numerous intellectuals. I suggest you read Arundhati Roy or attend S.A.R Geelani’s seminars at Delhi University. And please, try being a human being first and a Hindu later.

yeah right. I guess time for Obama’s army to goto war against the Indian Army. BTW, what’s up with the caste name. isn’t that uncool ?. :-)

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By: Pagal_Aadmi_for_debauchery http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/11/11/sonal_shahs_sta/comment-page-2/#comment-220939 Pagal_Aadmi_for_debauchery Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:47:55 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5513#comment-220939 <p><i>We are also bringing on Vijay Prashad to make his argument about Ms Shah's participation (not mere association)to fueling communalism, through speaking engagements at HSS Youth Conferences</i></p> <p>HSS? Whats that? Hitler Youth or something?</p> We are also bringing on Vijay Prashad to make his argument about Ms Shah’s participation (not mere association)to fueling communalism, through speaking engagements at HSS Youth Conferences

HSS? Whats that? Hitler Youth or something?

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By: Anil http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/11/11/sonal_shahs_sta/comment-page-2/#comment-220938 Anil Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:41:13 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5513#comment-220938 <blockquote>But at the same time, I do think there are some very important political issues that are raised, and I was interested in discussing how they will play out.</blockquote> <p>Ennis, by writing this post you are actively contributing to how those "very important political issues" play out - and to some extent that seems your point. Especially if you're going to contribute to letting someone's reputation dangle like this, perhaps you ought to make your own stand perfectly clear, rather than treating your punditry is merely detached "prediction." You seem to have opinions about all of this. If you're willing to say as much as you already have, calling people's judgment into question and all the rest, then perhaps it makes sense to just say what <i>you</i> think more directly, rather than filtering those views through the lens of what you think might be important to unnamed lawmakers.</p> <blockquote>Politics is about the way things are at this moment. And at this moment, there is a very strong precedent, and there is a reason for Americans to be concerned with the VHP.</blockquote> <p>Politics is most assuredly <i>not</i> just "about the way things are at this moment." We just spent an entire political campaign establishing otherwise. For you to characterize a controversial set of practices as a "very strong precedent" doesn't make it so, and doesn't mean that it should be. Are you accepting at face value the way in which Muslim charities and people connected to them <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/23/AR2007102301805.html">have been targeted</a> in recent years? How much else that has happened over the last eight years are you willing to assume away as "very strong precedents" to be applied to new situations, rather than as things to be assessed more critically? The questions you say that you're not engaging are not peripheral, they're crucial. None of this is a spectator sport.</p> <p>As for Sonal Shah herself, I'm with Siddhartha's comments. Judge her based on her words and actions in the context of her actual responsibilities -- she's made clear she doesn't endorse the Sangh's political views, which don't seem relevant to her role in the transition in any event. I'm glad she's spoken to these questions, and I don't think they're unimportant or irrelevant. But I think we can now all move on and evaluate her based on her actions and record. The discussion we need to have as a community on these questions implicates a lot of individuals who are perfectly well-meaning and decent people in lots of ways, and doesn't easily reduce to the question of Sonal Shah's individual judgment or anyone else's. We should have that conversation, and individual responsibility isn't altogether irrelevant, but I'm not convinced that we advance the ball very far by emphasizing questions about her judgment while downplaying the substance of what she has said. We would all do well to reread the President-Elect's "<a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23690567/">More Perfect Union</a>" speech on Rev. Wright before judging her as harshly as some of us are prepared to.</p> But at the same time, I do think there are some very important political issues that are raised, and I was interested in discussing how they will play out.

Ennis, by writing this post you are actively contributing to how those “very important political issues” play out – and to some extent that seems your point. Especially if you’re going to contribute to letting someone’s reputation dangle like this, perhaps you ought to make your own stand perfectly clear, rather than treating your punditry is merely detached “prediction.” You seem to have opinions about all of this. If you’re willing to say as much as you already have, calling people’s judgment into question and all the rest, then perhaps it makes sense to just say what you think more directly, rather than filtering those views through the lens of what you think might be important to unnamed lawmakers.

Politics is about the way things are at this moment. And at this moment, there is a very strong precedent, and there is a reason for Americans to be concerned with the VHP.

Politics is most assuredly not just “about the way things are at this moment.” We just spent an entire political campaign establishing otherwise. For you to characterize a controversial set of practices as a “very strong precedent” doesn’t make it so, and doesn’t mean that it should be. Are you accepting at face value the way in which Muslim charities and people connected to them have been targeted in recent years? How much else that has happened over the last eight years are you willing to assume away as “very strong precedents” to be applied to new situations, rather than as things to be assessed more critically? The questions you say that you’re not engaging are not peripheral, they’re crucial. None of this is a spectator sport.

As for Sonal Shah herself, I’m with Siddhartha’s comments. Judge her based on her words and actions in the context of her actual responsibilities — she’s made clear she doesn’t endorse the Sangh’s political views, which don’t seem relevant to her role in the transition in any event. I’m glad she’s spoken to these questions, and I don’t think they’re unimportant or irrelevant. But I think we can now all move on and evaluate her based on her actions and record. The discussion we need to have as a community on these questions implicates a lot of individuals who are perfectly well-meaning and decent people in lots of ways, and doesn’t easily reduce to the question of Sonal Shah’s individual judgment or anyone else’s. We should have that conversation, and individual responsibility isn’t altogether irrelevant, but I’m not convinced that we advance the ball very far by emphasizing questions about her judgment while downplaying the substance of what she has said. We would all do well to reread the President-Elect’s “More Perfect Union” speech on Rev. Wright before judging her as harshly as some of us are prepared to.

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By: amy http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/11/11/sonal_shahs_sta/comment-page-2/#comment-220937 amy Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:39:17 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5513#comment-220937 <p>To those trying to uphold the best of democratic practice/possibility in India and the U.S. (not quickly pass judgment), the offer still stands. This is not Gotcha style journalism - but an attempt to bring into conversation advocates on both sides, given that this may not be a story that is picked up by mainstream media outlets. PEACE</p> To those trying to uphold the best of democratic practice/possibility in India and the U.S. (not quickly pass judgment), the offer still stands. This is not Gotcha style journalism – but an attempt to bring into conversation advocates on both sides, given that this may not be a story that is picked up by mainstream media outlets. PEACE

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By: kayastha_lady http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/11/11/sonal_shahs_sta/comment-page-1/#comment-220934 kayastha_lady Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:28:55 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5513#comment-220934 <p>Meanwhile, Assam burns, and the Indian Army is being accused of harboring Hindu terrorists. __</p> <p>That the Indian Army is an instrument of state oppression was always known to the cognoscenti, for general people however, its recent involvement in the Malegaon Holocaust in league with the Saffron Brigade would be an eye-opener. But wait, you say they are being 'accused' of harboring terrorists. 4 people were killed by an ex-army man's syndicate, and you think the Army is not involved? Either you don't follow the English Media or have a craving need to give everything your own Saffron twist. The Indian Army's corroboration in the state sponsored genocide of Kashmiris and now the Bengali Muslims of Assam has been chronicled by numerous intellectuals. I suggest you read Arundhati Roy or attend S.A.R Geelani's seminars at Delhi University. And please, try being a human being first and a Hindu later.</p> Meanwhile, Assam burns, and the Indian Army is being accused of harboring Hindu terrorists. __

That the Indian Army is an instrument of state oppression was always known to the cognoscenti, for general people however, its recent involvement in the Malegaon Holocaust in league with the Saffron Brigade would be an eye-opener. But wait, you say they are being ‘accused’ of harboring terrorists. 4 people were killed by an ex-army man’s syndicate, and you think the Army is not involved? Either you don’t follow the English Media or have a craving need to give everything your own Saffron twist. The Indian Army’s corroboration in the state sponsored genocide of Kashmiris and now the Bengali Muslims of Assam has been chronicled by numerous intellectuals. I suggest you read Arundhati Roy or attend S.A.R Geelani’s seminars at Delhi University. And please, try being a human being first and a Hindu later.

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By: delurker http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/11/11/sonal_shahs_sta/comment-page-1/#comment-220932 delurker Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:08:30 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5513#comment-220932 <p><i>43 · <B><A href="mailto:amytpaul@hotmail.com" rel=nofollow>amy</A></B> <a href="http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/005513.html#comment220923">said</a></i></p> <blockquote>trying to understand the allegations on both sides behind sonal shah. I'm doing a story for Asia Pacific Forum Radio tonight8pm and am seeking someone can make the case for Sonal Shah. We are also bringing on Vijay Prashad to make his argument about Ms Shah's participation (not mere association) to fueling communalism, through speaking engagements at HSS Youth Conferences, serving as VHP National Coordinator of earthquake relief efforts and accepting an awards (via her brother) in the presence of Narendra Modi, who has documented blood on his hand. please contact: amytpaul at hotmail dot come</blockquote> <p>Hmmmm. It seems to me that whoever is available to present Ms. Shah's side will be subjected to a series of "when did stop beating your wife?" type questions about this. Anyone in camp Shah would be well-advised to avoid this forum. I think the Fox News definition of "fair and balanced" has reached other media.</p> 43 · amy said

trying to understand the allegations on both sides behind sonal shah. I’m doing a story for Asia Pacific Forum Radio tonight8pm and am seeking someone can make the case for Sonal Shah. We are also bringing on Vijay Prashad to make his argument about Ms Shah’s participation (not mere association) to fueling communalism, through speaking engagements at HSS Youth Conferences, serving as VHP National Coordinator of earthquake relief efforts and accepting an awards (via her brother) in the presence of Narendra Modi, who has documented blood on his hand. please contact: amytpaul at hotmail dot come

Hmmmm. It seems to me that whoever is available to present Ms. Shah’s side will be subjected to a series of “when did stop beating your wife?” type questions about this. Anyone in camp Shah would be well-advised to avoid this forum. I think the Fox News definition of “fair and balanced” has reached other media.

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By: Amrita http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/11/11/sonal_shahs_sta/comment-page-1/#comment-220930 Amrita Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:04:35 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5513#comment-220930 <blockquote>trying to understand the allegations on both sides behind sonal shah. I'm doing a story for Asia Pacific Forum Radio tonight8pm and am seeking someone can make the case for Sonal Shah. We are also bringing on Vijay Prashad to make his argument about Ms Shah's participation (not mere association)to fueling communalism, through speaking engagements at HSS Youth Conferences, serving as VHP National Coordinator of earthquake relief efforts and accepting an awards (via her brother)in the presence of Narendra Modi, who has documented blood on his hand.</blockquote> <p>Amy-</p> <p>What--you're <b><i>broadcasting</i></b> this BS? What crab in a bucket are you aggrandizing? Can you, instead, run a broadcast campaign against someone who has, say, accepted a award from George Bush, who has plenty of blood on his hands?</p> trying to understand the allegations on both sides behind sonal shah. I’m doing a story for Asia Pacific Forum Radio tonight8pm and am seeking someone can make the case for Sonal Shah. We are also bringing on Vijay Prashad to make his argument about Ms Shah’s participation (not mere association)to fueling communalism, through speaking engagements at HSS Youth Conferences, serving as VHP National Coordinator of earthquake relief efforts and accepting an awards (via her brother)in the presence of Narendra Modi, who has documented blood on his hand.

Amy-

What–you’re broadcasting this BS? What crab in a bucket are you aggrandizing? Can you, instead, run a broadcast campaign against someone who has, say, accepted a award from George Bush, who has plenty of blood on his hands?

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By: Pravin http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/11/11/sonal_shahs_sta/comment-page-1/#comment-220929 Pravin Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:03:17 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5513#comment-220929 <p>OK, I read the counterpunch article. While I am a liberal leaning libertarian of sorts, I find Counterpunch to be very useful reading to balance the mainstream press which tends to be too timid in attacking Israel for is faults and there needs to be someone to call bullshit on the excesses of our corporations. But counterpunch is not my entire reading because it can get tiring reading the same focus. They very rarely go after the middle eastern islamic countries with the exception of the Saudis. And they go easy on the marxist parties in India which are nothing but hypocritical outfits which have a servile attitude to the old USSR and China.</p> <p>Anyway, back to Sonal Shah. Reading the article, Prashad shows us little incisive analysis why he had to title the article THE MANY FACES OF SONAL SHAH. When he mentions Shah was member of VHP-A, ( a fact that doesn't seem 100% confirmed), why doesn't he give the non Desi reader the context of such a possible membership? Could it be that it was just the Indian way of just attending the local regional organization and the registration was routine? Can Prashad point to a single statement by Shah or her presence at a single meeting which condoned the inexplicable massacre of innocent muslims in the Gujarat riots? He even mentions she joined Anderson Consulting and uses a foreboding(they did the accounting for Enron) bullshit. once again, he fails to give context to such employment. Anderson Consulting was a freaking huge outfit. I doubt Shah was thinking "yes, this is my chance to do my part in corporate fraud" when she joined it. It probably was a good opportunity at furthering her career which gave her more money and power which enabled her to have the luxury of helping needy people via Indicorps.</p> <p>And then the rest of the article goes on about Obama. In the big scheme of things, even if you go by what Prashad wrote in that article, it is unclear why a counterpunch reader needs to read an article about the many faces of Sonal Shah. Obama has deal with people like Rahm Emanuel. Sonal Shah's "transgressions"(even if one were to adopt Prashad's outlook) are so minor compared to the typical political associate that one wonders why an article on Obama needed to focus on her.</p> <p>A very unfair article. I have know people like Prashad in my travels to India. I read their articles because they do highlight issues ignored by the traditional media.</p> OK, I read the counterpunch article. While I am a liberal leaning libertarian of sorts, I find Counterpunch to be very useful reading to balance the mainstream press which tends to be too timid in attacking Israel for is faults and there needs to be someone to call bullshit on the excesses of our corporations. But counterpunch is not my entire reading because it can get tiring reading the same focus. They very rarely go after the middle eastern islamic countries with the exception of the Saudis. And they go easy on the marxist parties in India which are nothing but hypocritical outfits which have a servile attitude to the old USSR and China.

Anyway, back to Sonal Shah. Reading the article, Prashad shows us little incisive analysis why he had to title the article THE MANY FACES OF SONAL SHAH. When he mentions Shah was member of VHP-A, ( a fact that doesn’t seem 100% confirmed), why doesn’t he give the non Desi reader the context of such a possible membership? Could it be that it was just the Indian way of just attending the local regional organization and the registration was routine? Can Prashad point to a single statement by Shah or her presence at a single meeting which condoned the inexplicable massacre of innocent muslims in the Gujarat riots? He even mentions she joined Anderson Consulting and uses a foreboding(they did the accounting for Enron) bullshit. once again, he fails to give context to such employment. Anderson Consulting was a freaking huge outfit. I doubt Shah was thinking “yes, this is my chance to do my part in corporate fraud” when she joined it. It probably was a good opportunity at furthering her career which gave her more money and power which enabled her to have the luxury of helping needy people via Indicorps.

And then the rest of the article goes on about Obama. In the big scheme of things, even if you go by what Prashad wrote in that article, it is unclear why a counterpunch reader needs to read an article about the many faces of Sonal Shah. Obama has deal with people like Rahm Emanuel. Sonal Shah’s “transgressions”(even if one were to adopt Prashad’s outlook) are so minor compared to the typical political associate that one wonders why an article on Obama needed to focus on her.

A very unfair article. I have know people like Prashad in my travels to India. I read their articles because they do highlight issues ignored by the traditional media.

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By: jyotsana http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/11/11/sonal_shahs_sta/comment-page-1/#comment-220928 jyotsana Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:49:50 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5513#comment-220928 <p><i>43 · <b><a href="mailto:amytpaul@hotmail.com" rel="nofollow">amy</a></b> <a href="http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/005513.html#comment220923">said</a></i></p> <blockquote>trying to understand the allegations on both sides behind sonal shah.</blockquote> <p>Your definition of "both sides" is weird. Are you planning to interview Sunita Williams as well who received an award of sorts from Narendra Modi? You want to <i>bring[ing] on Vijay Prashad to make his argument about Ms Shah's participation (not mere association) to (sic!) fueling communalism, through speaking engagements at HSS Youth Conferences,</i> All you have to do is ask for a xipt of Sonal's speeches. And BTW when are you plannin gthat feature on ISNA and CAIR? Funny isn't it how you folks ignore Daniel Pipes for a loon but lend so much credence to Vijay Prashad?</p> 43 · amy said

trying to understand the allegations on both sides behind sonal shah.

Your definition of “both sides” is weird. Are you planning to interview Sunita Williams as well who received an award of sorts from Narendra Modi? You want to bring[ing] on Vijay Prashad to make his argument about Ms Shah’s participation (not mere association) to (sic!) fueling communalism, through speaking engagements at HSS Youth Conferences, All you have to do is ask for a xipt of Sonal’s speeches. And BTW when are you plannin gthat feature on ISNA and CAIR? Funny isn’t it how you folks ignore Daniel Pipes for a loon but lend so much credence to Vijay Prashad?

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