Comments on: Greenspan: Desis Can Save Us http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/09/30/greenspan_desis/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Manju http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/09/30/greenspan_desis/comment-page-5/#comment-218480 Manju Tue, 14 Oct 2008 05:32:19 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5435#comment-218480 <p><i>216 · <B>oops i did it again</B> <a href="http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/005435.html#comment218477">said</a></i></p> <blockquote>it's ok, manju. don't take nationalization by komissar paulson so hard that you respond to a comment about volokh i never made :)</blockquote> <p>well, as an unprincipled opportunist, I can't say I'm taking the nationalization hard at all, especially with todays rally... though as an Obama supporter I am concerned a short-term stablization could give mccain an opening, though he probably needs one more event beyond that.</p> <p>But I pulled that Volokh quote from the very post you cited, from the poster himself in fact, not just a commentator, so it has more weight vis a vis the zeitgeist in libertarian world regarding Krugman's nobel (of which i have no opinion).</p> 216 · oops i did it again said

it’s ok, manju. don’t take nationalization by komissar paulson so hard that you respond to a comment about volokh i never made :)

well, as an unprincipled opportunist, I can’t say I’m taking the nationalization hard at all, especially with todays rally… though as an Obama supporter I am concerned a short-term stablization could give mccain an opening, though he probably needs one more event beyond that.

But I pulled that Volokh quote from the very post you cited, from the poster himself in fact, not just a commentator, so it has more weight vis a vis the zeitgeist in libertarian world regarding Krugman’s nobel (of which i have no opinion).

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By: oops i did it again http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/09/30/greenspan_desis/comment-page-5/#comment-218477 oops i did it again Tue, 14 Oct 2008 05:02:01 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5435#comment-218477 <p>it's ok, manju. don't take nationalization by komissar paulson so hard that you respond to a comment about volokh i never made :)</p> it’s ok, manju. don’t take nationalization by komissar paulson so hard that you respond to a comment about volokh i never made :)

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By: Suresh Colbert http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/09/30/greenspan_desis/comment-page-5/#comment-218472 Suresh Colbert Tue, 14 Oct 2008 04:48:19 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5435#comment-218472 <p><i>214 · <b>Manju</b> <a href="http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/005435.html#comment218470">said</a></i></p> <blockquote>Oops, what in the world does Krugman's analysis of trade patterns and location of economic activity have to do with Vinod's post?</blockquote> <p>I know! It's like people think there's some kind of politics to economic analysis, which we all know is absurd ;)</p> 214 · Manju said

Oops, what in the world does Krugman’s analysis of trade patterns and location of economic activity have to do with Vinod’s post?

I know! It’s like people think there’s some kind of politics to economic analysis, which we all know is absurd ;)

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By: Manju http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/09/30/greenspan_desis/comment-page-5/#comment-218470 Manju Tue, 14 Oct 2008 04:29:47 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5435#comment-218470 <p>Oops, what in the world does Krugman's analysis of trade patterns and location of economic activity have to do with Vinod's post? I mean, even the Volokh post you cite makes clear: "I believe Krugman's Nobel is well-deserved. He is clearly among the most important economists of his generation."</p> Oops, what in the world does Krugman’s analysis of trade patterns and location of economic activity have to do with Vinod’s post? I mean, even the Volokh post you cite makes clear: “I believe Krugman’s Nobel is well-deserved. He is clearly among the most important economists of his generation.”

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By: oops i did it again http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/09/30/greenspan_desis/comment-page-5/#comment-218464 oops i did it again Tue, 14 Oct 2008 03:15:45 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5435#comment-218464 <p>the comments on volokh are <a href="http://volokh.com/posts/1223906449.shtml">especially hilarious</a>. warning: they pose a major spit take hazard</p> the comments on volokh are especially hilarious. warning: they pose a major spit take hazard

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By: oops i did it again http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/09/30/greenspan_desis/comment-page-5/#comment-218438 oops i did it again Tue, 14 Oct 2008 01:49:05 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5435#comment-218438 <p>a <a href="http://crookedtimber.org/2008/10/13/the-name-of-this-band-is-exploding-heads/#comments">children's treasury of exploding heads</a> in response to krugman's nobel.</p> a children’s treasury of exploding heads in response to krugman’s nobel.

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By: oops i did it again http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/09/30/greenspan_desis/comment-page-5/#comment-218417 oops i did it again Tue, 14 Oct 2008 00:36:53 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5435#comment-218417 <p>well, in the presence of voodoo economics like that embodied in this post, what a great day it is for krugman, the voice of sensible leftist economics for the past 20 years or so, to have been awarded the nobel. once again, he has been proved right with his persistent calls for nationalization, where all his detractors have landed up with egg on their face. once again.</p> well, in the presence of voodoo economics like that embodied in this post, what a great day it is for krugman, the voice of sensible leftist economics for the past 20 years or so, to have been awarded the nobel. once again, he has been proved right with his persistent calls for nationalization, where all his detractors have landed up with egg on their face. once again.

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By: Manju http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/09/30/greenspan_desis/comment-page-5/#comment-218127 Manju Sun, 12 Oct 2008 04:34:34 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5435#comment-218127 <blockquote>Fannie and Freddie went from holding a high of 48 percent of the subprime loans that were sold into the secondary market to holding about 24 percent, </blockquote> <p>Wow! I didn't know their holdings went as high as 48%. I always read around 20-30%. And an implied govt backing for this. And this doesn't include their over-leveraged insurance biz that goes into the trillions. Vinod's right, "they vastly increased the size/scope of the bubble"</p> Fannie and Freddie went from holding a high of 48 percent of the subprime loans that were sold into the secondary market to holding about 24 percent,

Wow! I didn’t know their holdings went as high as 48%. I always read around 20-30%. And an implied govt backing for this. And this doesn’t include their over-leveraged insurance biz that goes into the trillions. Vinod’s right, “they vastly increased the size/scope of the bubble”

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By: GujuDude http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/09/30/greenspan_desis/comment-page-5/#comment-218118 GujuDude Sun, 12 Oct 2008 03:38:10 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5435#comment-218118 <p><a href="http://patdollard.com/2008/10/it-is-here-the-banned-snl-skit-cannot-hide-from-louie/">Some humor, an SNL skit that apparently got cut</a>(I'm not sure here, but if someone has information otherwise, please correct me).</p> Some humor, an SNL skit that apparently got cut(I’m not sure here, but if someone has information otherwise, please correct me).

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By: Dr Amonymous http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/09/30/greenspan_desis/comment-page-5/#comment-218098 Dr Amonymous Sat, 11 Oct 2008 23:37:25 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5435#comment-218098 <p>Just for the record, here's a thorough refutation of everything you believe in:</p> <blockquote><a href="http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/53802.html">Private sector loans, not Fannie or Freddie, triggered crisis</a> David Goldstein and Kevin G. Hall | McClatchy Newspapers last updated: October 11, 2008 04:56:24 PM WASHINGTON — As the economy worsens and Election Day approaches, a conservative campaign that blames the global financial crisis on a government push to make housing more affordable to lower-class Americans has taken off on talk radio and e-mail. Commentators say that's what triggered the stock market meltdown and the freeze on credit. They've specifically targeted the mortgage finance giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which the federal government seized on Sept. 6, contending that lending to poor and minority Americans caused Fannie's and Freddie's financial problems. Federal housing data reveal that the charges aren't true, and that the private sector, not the government or government-backed companies, was behind the soaring subprime lending at the core of the crisis. Subprime lending offered high-cost loans to the weakest borrowers during the housing boom that lasted from 2001 to 2007. Subprime lending was at its height vrom 2004 to 2006. Federal Reserve Board data show that: _ More than 84 percent of the subprime mortgages in 2006 were issued by private lending institutions. _ Private firms made nearly 83 percent of the subprime loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers that year. _ Only one of the top 25 subprime lenders in 2006 was directly subject to the housing law that's being lambasted by conservative critics. The "turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007," the President's Working Group on Financial Markets reported Friday. Conservative critics claim that the Clinton administration pushed Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to make home ownership more available to riskier borrowers with little concern for their ability to pay the mortgages. "I don't remember a clarion call that said Fannie and Freddie are a disaster. Loaning to minorities and risky folks is a disaster," said Neil Cavuto of Fox News. Fannie, the Federal National Mortgage Association, and Freddie, the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corp., don't lend money, to minorities or anyone else, however. They purchase loans from the private lenders who actually underwrite the loans. It's a process called securitization, and by passing on the loans, banks have more capital on hand so they can lend even more. This much is true. In an effort to promote affordable home ownership for minorities and rural whites, the Department of Housing and Urban Development set targets for Fannie and Freddie in 1992 to purchase low-income loans for sale into the secondary market that eventually reached this number: 52 percent of loans given to low-to moderate-income families. To be sure, encouraging lower-income Americans to become homeowners gave unsophisticated borrowers and unscrupulous lenders and mortgage brokers more chances to turn dreams of homeownership in nightmares. But these loans, and those to low- and moderate-income families represent a small portion of overall lending. And at the height of the housing boom in 2005 and 2006, Republicans and their party's standard bearer, President Bush, didn't criticize any sort of lending, frequently boasting that they were presiding over the highest-ever rates of U.S. homeownership. Between 2004 and 2006, when subprime lending was exploding, Fannie and Freddie went from holding a high of 48 percent of the subprime loans that were sold into the secondary market to holding about 24 percent, according to data from Inside Mortgage Finance, a specialty publication. One reason is that Fannie and Freddie were subject to tougher standards than many of the unregulated players in the private sector who weakened lending standards, most of whom have gone bankrupt or are now in deep trouble. During those same explosive three years, private investment banks — not Fannie and Freddie — dominated the mortgage loans that were packaged and sold into the secondary mortgage market. In 2005 and 2006, the private sector securitized almost two thirds of all U.S. mortgages, supplanting Fannie and Freddie, according to a number of specialty publications that track this data. In 1999, the year many critics charge that the Clinton administration pressured Fannie and Freddie, the private sector sold into the secondary market just 18 percent of all mortgages. Fueled by low interest rates and cheap credit, home prices between 2001 and 2007 galloped beyond anything ever seen, and that fueled demand for mortgage-backed securities, the technical term for mortgages that are sold to a company, usually an investment bank, which then pools and sells them into the secondary mortgage market. About 70 percent of all U.S. mortgages are in this secondary mortgage market, according to the Federal Reserve. Conservative critics also blame the subprime lending mess on the Community Reinvestment Act, a 31-year-old law aimed at freeing credit for underserved neighborhoods. Congress created the CRA in 1977 to reverse years of redlining and other restrictive banking practices that locked the poor, and especially minorities, out of homeownership and the tax breaks and wealth creation it affords. The CRA requires federally regulated and insured financial institutions to show that they're lending and investing in their communities. Conservative columnist Charles Krauthammer wrote recently that while the goal of the CRA was admirable, "it led to tremendous pressure on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — who in turn pressured banks and other lenders — to extend mortgages to people who were borrowing over their heads. That's called subprime lending. It lies at the root of our current calamity." Fannie and Freddie, however, didn't pressure lenders to sell them more loans; they struggled to keep pace with their private sector competitors. In fact, their regulator, the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight, imposed new restrictions in 2006 that led to Fannie and Freddie losing even more market share in the booming subprime market. What's more, only commercial banks and thrifts must follow CRA rules. The investment banks don't, nor did the now-bankrupt non-bank lenders such as New Century Financial Corp. and Ameriquest that underwrote most of the subprime loans. These private non-bank lenders enjoyed a regulatory gap, allowing them to be regulated by 50 different state banking supervisors instead of the federal government. And mortgage brokers, who also weren't subject to federal regulation or the CRA, originated most of the subprime loans. In a speech last March, Janet Yellen, the president of the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco, debunked the notion that the push for affordable housing created today's problems. "Most of the loans made by depository institutions examined under the CRA have not been higher-priced loans," she said. "The CRA has increased the volume of responsible lending to low- and moderate-income households." In a book on the sub-prime lending collapse published in June 2007, the late Federal Reserve Governor Ed Gramlich wrote that only one-third of all CRA loans had interest rates high enough to be considered sub-prime and that to the pleasant surprise of commercial banks there were low default rates. Banks that participated in CRA lending had found, he wrote, "that this new lending is good business." (e-mail: khall )at)mcclatchydc.com)</blockquote> Just for the record, here’s a thorough refutation of everything you believe in:

Private sector loans, not Fannie or Freddie, triggered crisis David Goldstein and Kevin G. Hall | McClatchy Newspapers last updated: October 11, 2008 04:56:24 PM WASHINGTON — As the economy worsens and Election Day approaches, a conservative campaign that blames the global financial crisis on a government push to make housing more affordable to lower-class Americans has taken off on talk radio and e-mail. Commentators say that’s what triggered the stock market meltdown and the freeze on credit. They’ve specifically targeted the mortgage finance giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which the federal government seized on Sept. 6, contending that lending to poor and minority Americans caused Fannie’s and Freddie’s financial problems. Federal housing data reveal that the charges aren’t true, and that the private sector, not the government or government-backed companies, was behind the soaring subprime lending at the core of the crisis. Subprime lending offered high-cost loans to the weakest borrowers during the housing boom that lasted from 2001 to 2007. Subprime lending was at its height vrom 2004 to 2006. Federal Reserve Board data show that: _ More than 84 percent of the subprime mortgages in 2006 were issued by private lending institutions. _ Private firms made nearly 83 percent of the subprime loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers that year. _ Only one of the top 25 subprime lenders in 2006 was directly subject to the housing law that’s being lambasted by conservative critics. The “turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007,” the President’s Working Group on Financial Markets reported Friday. Conservative critics claim that the Clinton administration pushed Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to make home ownership more available to riskier borrowers with little concern for their ability to pay the mortgages. “I don’t remember a clarion call that said Fannie and Freddie are a disaster. Loaning to minorities and risky folks is a disaster,” said Neil Cavuto of Fox News. Fannie, the Federal National Mortgage Association, and Freddie, the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corp., don’t lend money, to minorities or anyone else, however. They purchase loans from the private lenders who actually underwrite the loans. It’s a process called securitization, and by passing on the loans, banks have more capital on hand so they can lend even more. This much is true. In an effort to promote affordable home ownership for minorities and rural whites, the Department of Housing and Urban Development set targets for Fannie and Freddie in 1992 to purchase low-income loans for sale into the secondary market that eventually reached this number: 52 percent of loans given to low-to moderate-income families. To be sure, encouraging lower-income Americans to become homeowners gave unsophisticated borrowers and unscrupulous lenders and mortgage brokers more chances to turn dreams of homeownership in nightmares. But these loans, and those to low- and moderate-income families represent a small portion of overall lending. And at the height of the housing boom in 2005 and 2006, Republicans and their party’s standard bearer, President Bush, didn’t criticize any sort of lending, frequently boasting that they were presiding over the highest-ever rates of U.S. homeownership. Between 2004 and 2006, when subprime lending was exploding, Fannie and Freddie went from holding a high of 48 percent of the subprime loans that were sold into the secondary market to holding about 24 percent, according to data from Inside Mortgage Finance, a specialty publication. One reason is that Fannie and Freddie were subject to tougher standards than many of the unregulated players in the private sector who weakened lending standards, most of whom have gone bankrupt or are now in deep trouble. During those same explosive three years, private investment banks — not Fannie and Freddie — dominated the mortgage loans that were packaged and sold into the secondary mortgage market. In 2005 and 2006, the private sector securitized almost two thirds of all U.S. mortgages, supplanting Fannie and Freddie, according to a number of specialty publications that track this data. In 1999, the year many critics charge that the Clinton administration pressured Fannie and Freddie, the private sector sold into the secondary market just 18 percent of all mortgages. Fueled by low interest rates and cheap credit, home prices between 2001 and 2007 galloped beyond anything ever seen, and that fueled demand for mortgage-backed securities, the technical term for mortgages that are sold to a company, usually an investment bank, which then pools and sells them into the secondary mortgage market. About 70 percent of all U.S. mortgages are in this secondary mortgage market, according to the Federal Reserve. Conservative critics also blame the subprime lending mess on the Community Reinvestment Act, a 31-year-old law aimed at freeing credit for underserved neighborhoods. Congress created the CRA in 1977 to reverse years of redlining and other restrictive banking practices that locked the poor, and especially minorities, out of homeownership and the tax breaks and wealth creation it affords. The CRA requires federally regulated and insured financial institutions to show that they’re lending and investing in their communities. Conservative columnist Charles Krauthammer wrote recently that while the goal of the CRA was admirable, “it led to tremendous pressure on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — who in turn pressured banks and other lenders — to extend mortgages to people who were borrowing over their heads. That’s called subprime lending. It lies at the root of our current calamity.” Fannie and Freddie, however, didn’t pressure lenders to sell them more loans; they struggled to keep pace with their private sector competitors. In fact, their regulator, the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight, imposed new restrictions in 2006 that led to Fannie and Freddie losing even more market share in the booming subprime market. What’s more, only commercial banks and thrifts must follow CRA rules. The investment banks don’t, nor did the now-bankrupt non-bank lenders such as New Century Financial Corp. and Ameriquest that underwrote most of the subprime loans. These private non-bank lenders enjoyed a regulatory gap, allowing them to be regulated by 50 different state banking supervisors instead of the federal government. And mortgage brokers, who also weren’t subject to federal regulation or the CRA, originated most of the subprime loans. In a speech last March, Janet Yellen, the president of the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco, debunked the notion that the push for affordable housing created today’s problems. “Most of the loans made by depository institutions examined under the CRA have not been higher-priced loans,” she said. “The CRA has increased the volume of responsible lending to low- and moderate-income households.” In a book on the sub-prime lending collapse published in June 2007, the late Federal Reserve Governor Ed Gramlich wrote that only one-third of all CRA loans had interest rates high enough to be considered sub-prime and that to the pleasant surprise of commercial banks there were low default rates. Banks that participated in CRA lending had found, he wrote, “that this new lending is good business.” (e-mail: khall )at)mcclatchydc.com)
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