I wonder what would happen if this conversation was allowed to continue endlessly. We’ve already Godwinned it, and that doesn’t have seem to have done anything – though maybe Godwins’ law is eurocentric I think either we would come to some profound agreement / disagreement, or it would go on endlessly, in circles, to the last syllable of recorded time. Are we talking to each other or talking to ourselves? Both?

No need to wonder. Mercy-closed.

Since people are mostly pretty dumb Occam would say that it is more probable that you are a fool.

What a complete idiot! Based on your asinine reasoning you are probably a fool yourself. Actually your irrational posts, and the fact that you didnt realize that that argument applies to you as well, make it a certainty.

Wow, you certainly know yourself very well. A very succinct and accurate description of your contributions to this thread.

Who else but a fool would claim that Switzerland which mandates and subsidizes education, health care and military service is the most admirably libertarian nation he can think of??

And where did I say that Switzerland is the apotheosis of libertarianism? It goes a long way and it has some ways to go. Atleast far better than what “community organizer” of your ilk hope for.

you still don’t understand the difference between “community organizers” which suck at the govt teat like ACORN and those which depend solely on private donations and grants.

Here is news for you genius: all leaders whether political, military, religious etc, are community organizers.

Ergo my handle. And also so was Sarah Palin as the mayor of Wasilla. But she was right when he said she had actual responsibilities mandated by law which organizers of your ilk don’t. It just funny to see your and Obama’s hubris that you guys consider yourself equivalent to Jesus and MK Gandhi. “Gidar chale sher ki chaal!!”

The generals and CEOs of the military industrial complex sucking at the “govt teat” are also community organizers. Why dont you have a problem with these teat suckers? Lets be consistent here.

CEOs, definitely. Eisenhower was very prescient when he talked about the Military Industrial complex.

I do not suck on society’s teats.

Thats a shameless, outrageous lie. Based on your own selfish libertarian reasoning, you are indeed sucking on society’s teats. If you want protection for your little convenience store hire your own security. Why should tax payers who rarely or never need the services of the police have to pay for your protection?

As a taxpayer in good standing with Uncle Sam and since the taxes I pay go to police and maintenance of law and order, which is a legitimate function of government (as I have said time and time again, and which you have not understood due to your poor comprehension skills), I do have a greater right to call upon their service compared to a good for nothing, lazy waste of space like you. Thankfully until now I have not needed their service and I hope I never will. Given your cavalier attitude to taxes it is obvious you have never filed a tax return on your life. And obviously you don’t need to since you have never done an honest day’s work. You are one of the ilk of the professionnal protestors bused into New Delhi for a big rally. I am still waiting for the answer to my question on why you can’t do what you do with private donations and grants. I am becoming increasingly convinced that you have no answer.

237 · Dr AmNonymous said

I wonder what would happen if this conversation was allowed to continue endlessly. We’ve already Godwinned it, and that doesn’t have seem to have done anything – though maybe Godwins’ law is eurocentric I think either we would come to some profound agreement / disagreement, or it would go on endlessly, in circles, to the last syllable of recorded time. Are we talking to each other or talking to ourselves? Both?

Huh? Anyway, I think you answered my question. Carry on!!!!

Discuss.

(until the hall monitor gets here

Dude, this thread was godwinned nearly 2 hrs before you made your first contribution here Look at comment #13.

because private armies lead to heterosexism, white supremacy, patriarchy and male-dominated privilege.

What a complete idiot! Based on your asinine reasoning you are probably a fool yourself. Actually your irrational posts, and the fact that you didnt realize that that argument applies to you as well, make it a certainty.

Who else but a fool would claim that Switzerland which mandates and subsidizes education, health care and military service is the most admirably libertarian nation he can think of??

you still don’t understand the difference between “community organizers” which suck at the govt teat like ACORN and those which depend solely on private donations and grants.

Here is news for you genius: all leaders whether political, military, religious etc, are community organizers. The generals and CEOs of the military industrial complex sucking at the “govt teat” are also community organizers. Why dont you have a problem with these teat suckers? Lets be consistent here.

I do not suck on society’s teats.

Thats a shameless, outrageous lie. Based on your own selfish libertarian reasoning, you are indeed sucking on society’s teats. If you want protection for your little convenience store hire your own security. Why should tax payers who rarely or never need the services of the police have to pay for your protection?

Please read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Switzerland. Everybody has to BUY health insurance. The govt does not give it away for free and neither is it supported by confiscatory taxes.

More ignorant nonsense. Unfortunately for your delusions about the swiss being libertarians, here is the reality:

http://healthcare-economist.com/2007/11/27/swiss-healthcare-system/

“The Swiss government mandates that all individuals purchase health insurance. While the insurance is subsidized by the government“and more heavily subsidized for poor Swiss individuals“most Swiss pay a large percentage of their insurance premiums. The government pays 25% of the premium while the individual pays the rest.

Well atleast everybody has to pay quite a decent size amount (75% of their premiums). That is not too shabby compared to a Universal Health Coverage scheme where presumably the govt will be paying the premiums. Not perfect but not too ugly.

For a small country conscription may be necessary

Explain why? And explain why you think Switzerland is libertarian despite conscription, despite mandating health care and subsidizing the premium of the poor citizens, and despite having official religions. How does a good locale and tax incentives for foreign investors override these gross violations of libertarian ideology?

As long as the official religion is not forced down non-believer’s throats its fine. Anyways the official religion is finance only by the adherents’ taxes which is pretty good so it doesn’t even come close to “official religion” You asked me to name a society today which comes close and I named Switzerland, Rahul named some more, some which I agree with and some which I disagree. Its not perfect but then again Rome was not built in a day Switzerland comes close enough, though it still has some ways to go. And low taxes go pretty far in keeping the govt small and does not let it become too powerful.

I wonder what would happen if this conversation was allowed to continue endlessly. We’ve already Godwinned it, and that doesn’t have seem to have done anything – though maybe Godwins’ law is eurocentric I think either we would come to some profound agreement / disagreement, or it would go on endlessly, in circles, to the last syllable of recorded time. Are we talking to each other or talking to ourselves? Both?

Discuss.

(until the hall monitor gets here Dude, this thread was godwinned nearly 2 hrs before you made your first contribution here Look at comment #13.

you sure are easy to fool then.

Wouldnt it be more accurate to say that you lied? Now the very purpose of a lie is to fool people isnt it? Either you have a problem with community organizers or you dont. Which is it?

Since people are mostly pretty dumb Occam would say that it is more probable that you are a fool. Especially since you still don’t understand the difference between “community organizers” which suck at the govt teat like ACORN and those which depend solely on private donations and grants. (Of course I won’t deny that I have done foolish things too )

It would have been helpful if you had put “for their ends” on a separate line. It seems as if I said that.

Actually you did say that. That is a direct quote. Why did you say that and why are you now lying that that you did not say that?

See my previous comment

And what is wrong in having laws and the instruments to maintain them which will allow me to enjoy the fruits of MY labour as I see fit? It seems to me you have a problem with that. Is it because the fruits of your labour are too meager (for whatever reason, say lack of effort/intelligence etc) that you want the govt to take away my rightful property and redistribute it to your benefit?

It is all about you, you, you eh? As if you earned in a vacuum. And dont flatter yourself, you arent that intelligent. For your information most taxes are paid not by selfish and greedy people such as yourself. In a democracy if the majority of people were like you, you wouldn’t need to whine like this.

Yes, because it is my effort. And I have not earned it in a vacuum. The other people around me have also earned the fruit of their labours and is theirs to enjoy as they see fit, not yours or mine. Unfortunately in this back and forth you have exposed your lack of intelligence and comprehension. Taxes are paid by everybody who works and makes money, you may be the most selfish bastard in the world or you may be the Jesus, Buddha, Muhammad, Danveer Karna combined but you will HAVE to pay your taxes. Taxes are not voluntary my friend. I would like to see a taxpayer who does not whine about paying taxes. You definitely don’t, but I guess that is because you don’t pay any taxes in the first place (for whatever reason).

Why not go the private charity/foundation route?

Why not go for private security and national defense by the same logic? Why do you want to suck on the teats of those citizens who dont want the services of police, jails, armies as much as you do?

Two reasons: 1. As a taxpayer, by definiton, unlike you I do not suck on society’s teats. The police, jails and military are partly financed by my taxes. 2. Government is in the end a dispute resolution mechanism. People give up their claim on force and give the monopoly to government so that disputes can be handled fairly. Otherwise, if I was richer than you, I can hire a bigger army than you and have a better chance of preventing you from enjoying your rights and property.

he needs to get over palin. my advice: attack progressive misogyny (sorry, dr a, this will hurt). identity politics has long mimicked traditional bigotry by reducing women to a narrow set of beliefs, as opposed to feminism being an over-arching inclusive princple most women probably could identify with. take on wendy donnigers claim that palin’s “greatest hypocrisy is in her pretense that she is a woman.” slam South Carolina Democratic chairwoman Carol Fowler for saying John McCain had chosen a running mate “whose primary qualification seems to be that she hasn’t had an abortion.” attack NOW for saying palin is “more a conservative man than she is a woman on woman’s issues.” point out the factual inaccuracy of steinem’s claim that Palin “opposes just about every issue that women support by a majority or plurality.”

most americans will find these comments incendiary, sexist even. obama will look chivalrous and this will help with elder women and pumas. he neutralizes palin while simultaneously triangulating like clinton successfully did (“bean counters”). by taking on his own extremists he blunts the underlying charge of the community organizer” mocking, that he’s a radical.

political winner and principled. no brainer.

Not if Hitler/Nazi was in the alias.