In the United States, yes. There’s hardly widespread gender-based foeticide going on. That’s why context matters.

And yet many feminists still oppose controling abortion in india. why? becuse the overarching principle of the individuals right to autonomy over their own body transcends cultures.

but in the same breath they deny that others may have similar paradigms (like the fetus is a human fetus) that may trump the right of a woman to do what they like with their own body. unable to transcend their own framework (my framework also, btw) they reduce the opponents position to misogyny and/or false consciousness due to hegemony, adn go happily along their way in their ideologically certion world like the marxists of old…who were the founders of hegemony theories.

in this sense, progressive politics begins to resemble old fashioned racism, (just read jyotsana’s, who coming from the same paradigm, unhinged and racist attacks on a black and latina commentator on the “My PUMA is flummoxed by Palin thread”) as the deny woman and POC the very diversity whites and men take for granted.

average White working class person or average South Asian working class person in the u.s. more likely to be accommadating to socialism, strikes, and other anti-establishment activities? Is the average desi upper class person more or less likely than the average upper class white person in the u.s. to be accommodating to ideas like anti-imperialism, anti-zionism, or marxism? Again, these are vast generalizations – and the answers are complex, but I don’t think that the straightforward characterizations made by Ravi (and reinforced by you) are on the right track.

are you defining working class as non white collar? I would lump simple data-entry jobs into this category as well. Now think of the general small business owner population, mainly small-time contractors, owner-operator transportation, hospitality and retail, and ask yourself whether these are the people with the time to mock up a “W.T.0–Kapitalist Pigs Killing Poor People” sign, drive to the latest protest (with numbers inflated/deflated depending on whether you favor CNN or alternet) in a major city, join up with their pink lingerie wearing, issue-intersectionality-deprived comrades and develop pneumonia while listening to Sean Penn/Al Sharpton/Medea Benjamin yap about the vast capitalist conspiracy to slyly reduce the happiness of the people by way of employing them and thus tainting the economic herrenvolk with the profit-driven spoor of aforementioned Pigs.

The people i hope you’re thinking about, especially those who have to spend most of their time keeping their business running (and hopefully growing), don’t have time for the socialist’s idle pursuits, especially something that is NOW so clearly unproductive as symbolic action (protests and the like).

This is basically the opposite of what I understand hegemony to mean in contemporary America. It means the control of public opinion (esp through the media) and thereby the creation of a real “choice” but a meaningless one whose outcome serves capital either way (more or less, over time). The only substantive choice is to emotionally opt out and then reengage.

well, if you want stats take abortion. now, i’m more or less aligned with the feminists on this one, as i see abortion as a matter of individual autonomy and its illegality as a remnant of the patriarchy. but stats show women favor abortion only about 58-42%. that’s a pretty significant minorty. do they hate themselves? are they anti-women as some feminists are complaining about palin.

You’re confusing patriarchy with social identity. Patriarchy demands that women’s bodies are controlled, and it affects everyone, including women. A good South Asian example is the power that mother-in-laws wield over women marrying into the family. And that’s setting aside the question of whether people are single-identity voters (especially lgbt people and women who are oppressed on the basis of their individual identities rather than group identity).

is it so hard to see a feminist justification for the pro-life position, as fetus become women too?

In the United States, yes. There’s hardly widespread gender-based foeticide going on. That’s why context matters.

with friends like these…what exactly did I say that you agreed with? That hegemony exists and ruling elites attempt to convince people that the status quo is in their interests? And you choose to link this to an argument based on anecdotal encounter with Black South Africans that implies that there are some who supported the apartheid regime? Not exactly good faith, but good trolling

well, if you want stats take abortion. now, i’m more or less aligned with the feminists on this one, as i see abortion as a matter of individual autonomy and its illegality as a remnant of the patriarchy. but stats show women favor abortion only about 58-42%. that’s a pretty significant minorty. do they hate themselves? are they anti-women as some feminists are complaining about palin.

or do they just see the world thru a differnt paradigm. is it so hard to see a feminist justification for the pro-life position, as fetus become women too?

sure, hegemony may partially explain why some cubans love castro and communism, why stalin and mao and remain popular in some quaters, why indians support socialism. but over reliance on hegemony arguments is one of the reasons communism descended into an orwellian nightmare. opinions were treated as facts and squashing dissent thus justified. politcs is not an exact science, its more like stock-picking where facts create parameters but within those parameters there are only degress of certainty. so i’m never really surprsed when peoples opinons on what they consider their self interst appear to contradict what I think is really best for them.

i’m sorta with dr a on this. ever since i met black south africans who weren’t so opposed to apartheid and chastised me for criticizing Buthelezi, I’ve been very careful about drawing conclusions. the oppressed often have a different relationship with their oppression than we think they should. there’s a reason machiavelli warned future dictators that the goodwill of the people is their most valuable resource.

with friends like these…what exactly did I say that you agreed with? That hegemony exists and ruling elites attempt to convince people that the status quo is in their interests? And you choose to link this to an argument based on anecdotal encounter with Black South Africans that implies that there are some who supported the apartheid regime? Not exactly good faith, but good trolling

Go read up on your Gramsci; the new prince is better than the old one.

In the short to medium term, we’re headed towards centralized, static decision making structures (be it raising federal/capital gains taxes, universal healthcare, universal child care etc etc) whereby all decisions will be made in Washington DC.

dont worry, moornam. just like the bush admin spent profligately and increased the deficit in order to speed up the forthcoming libertarian revolution (and i am sure you will agree that their overextending on wiretapping, egregious privacy violations and torture was to the same end), barack’s socialized medicine plan is only to demonstrate that we will all be better off under moron paul’s fend-for-yourself healthcare plan (but i am sure that as president, he will deliver all american babies for free).

It’s a strange conclusion to draw from the strategy I laid out (again) to say that I don’t believe there are any appreciable differences between the candidates or party. If that were the case, wouldn’t I be advocating ALL voters to vote for a third party? And yes, voters are ill-informed – not because they’re stupid people, but because that’s how hegemony functions, because people dont’ have much time, because they get bought off through political rents, and because of myriad other reasons. That doesn’t mean I think that it’s smart to “believe” in a Democratic agenda that is emphasizing “smart” imperialism over stupid imperialism.

Ravi is right in saying that desi immigrants would be wary of any hints of market altering government intervention, because they are working (to feed/clothe/home themselves/family etc.) and would like to continue making a life they don’t feel is possible back in desh.

Okay since apparently we’re trading in generalizations despite both of our criticisms of them, here’s a thought experiment – is the average White working class person or average South Asian working class person in the u.s. more likely to be accommadating to socialism, strikes, and other anti-establishment activities? Is the average desi upper class person more or less likely than the average upper class white person in the u.s. to be accommodating to ideas like anti-imperialism, anti-zionism, or marxism? Again, these are vast generalizations – and the answers are complex, but I don’t think that the straightforward characterizations made by Ravi (and reinforced by you) are on the right track.

fluid, decentralized decision-making structures, and I think we’re headed in that direction, over the long term,

In the long term, we’re all dead. Or so I’ve heard…

In the short to medium term, we’re headed towards centralized, static decision making structures (be it raising federal/capital gains taxes, universal healthcare, universal child care etc etc) whereby all decisions will be made in Washington DC.

M. Nam

But who gets to make the decision as to which approach to be used when and how resources will be distributed across different problems?

Me, of course. (But seriously, I am in favor of fluid, decentralized decision-making structures, and I think we’re headed in that direction, over the long term, whether anybody likes it or not. That’s why I pay more attention to local races than the big party convention farces.)