Comments on: Fatima Bhutto on Musharraf’s Exit http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/08/18/fatima_bhutto_o_1/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Mohammad Ayaz Khan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/08/18/fatima_bhutto_o_1/comment-page-1/#comment-243765 Mohammad Ayaz Khan Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:40:17 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5352#comment-243765 <p>as a Pakistani who is not very fond of pakistani politicians b/c of their hunger for wealth and power and complete callousness to public welfare, you would be amazed to note that Pakistan only developed during 40,s, 60's, 80's, and then early 2000's during Musharraf rule. except the 40's all the other three decades saw military in power. all major dams, major projects both civilian and military were developed during these times except 2 motorways. During the time of democracy and politian's rule mainly in 70's and 90's we suffered like crazy with debt mounting w/o a trace of economic development. The politicians got richer, the country poorer.</p> <p>actually for nascent countries, a mix of democracy9people power), technocracy, bureaucracy and armed Forces and also State Bank economists gives a better govt rather than every thing being run by people's representatives...especially when 70% population is illiterate.</p> <p>Anyway.....as for Musharraf..the educated and the balanced people in Pakistan like him especially who understand strategic isues and World economics...Those who don't and who are in majority support the two parties...PPP and PML N.......they just want their party in power no matter what it does.</p> <p>as for relationship with India, Pakistan is the only country in the world today that has multiple security threats emanating from all sides.......Those who are against Musharraf's support to US in 2001 do not know that our nuclear installations and perhaps our major infrastructure would not be there today had he not taken this bold decision...and time has proven it was the right decision......taliban are evil and now many Pakistanis agree.</p> <p>as for US intervention after 2001, its the fault of al qaeda and Taleban and not Musharraf...Who created Al Qaeda and Taleban....uS had brought in 25000 Arabs from Middle Easat to afghanistan and asked Pakistan to train them and KSA to finance them....As for Taliban they were created during Benazir Bhutto's time theough her favorite General Nasirullah Babur and her favorite Mullah Fazlurrehman...........o i don't know why the heat on Musharraf.......He is responsible for Pakistan's survival in 2001......Not a singlre country would have helped us then trust me had US attacked Pakistan......</p> <p>as for fatima Bhutto, she seems like a nice and educated person who can rise above family linkages to see reality and truth. She has got those guts. Let'sse how she gets along with politics in future.</p> as a Pakistani who is not very fond of pakistani politicians b/c of their hunger for wealth and power and complete callousness to public welfare, you would be amazed to note that Pakistan only developed during 40,s, 60′s, 80′s, and then early 2000′s during Musharraf rule. except the 40′s all the other three decades saw military in power. all major dams, major projects both civilian and military were developed during these times except 2 motorways. During the time of democracy and politian’s rule mainly in 70′s and 90′s we suffered like crazy with debt mounting w/o a trace of economic development. The politicians got richer, the country poorer.

actually for nascent countries, a mix of democracy9people power), technocracy, bureaucracy and armed Forces and also State Bank economists gives a better govt rather than every thing being run by people’s representatives…especially when 70% population is illiterate.

Anyway…..as for Musharraf..the educated and the balanced people in Pakistan like him especially who understand strategic isues and World economics…Those who don’t and who are in majority support the two parties…PPP and PML N…….they just want their party in power no matter what it does.

as for relationship with India, Pakistan is the only country in the world today that has multiple security threats emanating from all sides…….Those who are against Musharraf’s support to US in 2001 do not know that our nuclear installations and perhaps our major infrastructure would not be there today had he not taken this bold decision…and time has proven it was the right decision……taliban are evil and now many Pakistanis agree.

as for US intervention after 2001, its the fault of al qaeda and Taleban and not Musharraf…Who created Al Qaeda and Taleban….uS had brought in 25000 Arabs from Middle Easat to afghanistan and asked Pakistan to train them and KSA to finance them….As for Taliban they were created during Benazir Bhutto’s time theough her favorite General Nasirullah Babur and her favorite Mullah Fazlurrehman………..o i don’t know why the heat on Musharraf…….He is responsible for Pakistan’s survival in 2001……Not a singlre country would have helped us then trust me had US attacked Pakistan……

as for fatima Bhutto, she seems like a nice and educated person who can rise above family linkages to see reality and truth. She has got those guts. Let’sse how she gets along with politics in future.

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By: Maliha http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/08/18/fatima_bhutto_o_1/comment-page-1/#comment-213443 Maliha Mon, 25 Aug 2008 20:22:18 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5352#comment-213443 <p>Hi all,</p> <p>Its quite thought-provoking to witness the anti-Pakistan attitude and Pakistan-centric obsession amongst Indians in this day and age. While, majority of us are moderate and believe in peaceful co-existence, we wish if you guys would leave us on our own. Live & let live and long live Pakistan:-)</p> <pre><code> - Peace loving Pakistanis </code></pre> Hi all,

Its quite thought-provoking to witness the anti-Pakistan attitude and Pakistan-centric obsession amongst Indians in this day and age. While, majority of us are moderate and believe in peaceful co-existence, we wish if you guys would leave us on our own. Live & let live and long live Pakistan:-)

                                                                                                    - Peace loving Pakistanis
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By: Mewa Singh http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/08/18/fatima_bhutto_o_1/comment-page-1/#comment-213076 Mewa Singh Thu, 21 Aug 2008 02:08:49 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5352#comment-213076 <p>JGandhi,</p> <p>You're right, but your analysis of Hamas is far too simplistic. Plus the whole America "supports democracy" idea rings hollow. America only supports those democracies that "we" like.</p> JGandhi,

You’re right, but your analysis of Hamas is far too simplistic. Plus the whole America “supports democracy” idea rings hollow. America only supports those democracies that “we” like.

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By: Kabir http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/08/18/fatima_bhutto_o_1/comment-page-1/#comment-213066 Kabir Wed, 20 Aug 2008 23:41:40 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5352#comment-213066 <p>As a young Pakistani-American, I have to say that I am very happy that Musharraf has resigned. Although Zardari and Sharif are certainly not paragons of virtue, they have been elected by the people (insofar as any election in Pak is truely free and fair). I agree with those posters above who note that democracy is something that should be unequivocally supported (of course there is a difference between true democracy and the "democracy" that Bush wanted to support in Iraq). I think that removing a military dictator from office is an extremely significant step for Pakistan and as a Pakistani I am proud to see this day.</p> <p>Kabir</p> As a young Pakistani-American, I have to say that I am very happy that Musharraf has resigned. Although Zardari and Sharif are certainly not paragons of virtue, they have been elected by the people (insofar as any election in Pak is truely free and fair). I agree with those posters above who note that democracy is something that should be unequivocally supported (of course there is a difference between true democracy and the “democracy” that Bush wanted to support in Iraq). I think that removing a military dictator from office is an extremely significant step for Pakistan and as a Pakistani I am proud to see this day.

Kabir

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By: Topcat http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/08/18/fatima_bhutto_o_1/comment-page-1/#comment-213059 Topcat Wed, 20 Aug 2008 22:53:32 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5352#comment-213059 <p>Oops, I meant Democracy in Pak is as difficult as growing hair on Bruce Willis's head :)</p> Oops, I meant Democracy in Pak is as difficult as growing hair on Bruce Willis’s head :)

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By: Topcat http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/08/18/fatima_bhutto_o_1/comment-page-1/#comment-213058 Topcat Wed, 20 Aug 2008 22:48:13 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5352#comment-213058 <blockquote>To me a democratic Pakistan means more attacks on India because I see a popular mandate for hostility towards us. </blockquote> <p>Democracy in Pak is as difficult as growing because Islam does not allow freedom of thought, speech or action within muslims and non-muslims(kafirs) However, the various attempts to restore democracy in Pak is really commendable and reflects the relatively liberal of the Pakistanis. Unfortunately, that liberal side of Pak only manifests as beautiful Fashion models and some very good sufi singers but never in politics. In Pak politics as it is said, you have to hate India to survive. Even Benazir Bhutto, with all her western education, accent and liberal upbringing played to the tune of appeasing the hardliners by saying some nasty things about India.</p> To me a democratic Pakistan means more attacks on India because I see a popular mandate for hostility towards us.

Democracy in Pak is as difficult as growing because Islam does not allow freedom of thought, speech or action within muslims and non-muslims(kafirs) However, the various attempts to restore democracy in Pak is really commendable and reflects the relatively liberal of the Pakistanis. Unfortunately, that liberal side of Pak only manifests as beautiful Fashion models and some very good sufi singers but never in politics. In Pak politics as it is said, you have to hate India to survive. Even Benazir Bhutto, with all her western education, accent and liberal upbringing played to the tune of appeasing the hardliners by saying some nasty things about India.

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By: JGandhi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/08/18/fatima_bhutto_o_1/comment-page-1/#comment-213057 JGandhi Wed, 20 Aug 2008 22:24:43 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5352#comment-213057 <p><i>34 · <B><A href="http://thelangarhall.com" rel=nofollow>Mewa Singh</A></B> <a href="http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/005352.html#comment212932">said</a></i></p> <blockquote>GW stated that he stood for democracy, but his actions and policies often were the opposite. Approve or disapprove, Hamas was democratically elected. Bush hardly recognized them and has done everything possible to undermine the democratic decision of the people in the West Bank.</blockquote> <p>Palestinians have the right to elect their leaders democratically, but they also must accept the consequences of their political decisions. Hamas launches terrorist attacks against Israelis and Westerners. Just because Hamas won an election doesn't mean the West has to ignore its terrorism and accept it. Just as the Palestinians have a right to elect Hamas, the West has the right to take the position that they will not negotiate with groups that commit terrorism against Westerners.</p> 34 · Mewa Singh said

GW stated that he stood for democracy, but his actions and policies often were the opposite. Approve or disapprove, Hamas was democratically elected. Bush hardly recognized them and has done everything possible to undermine the democratic decision of the people in the West Bank.

Palestinians have the right to elect their leaders democratically, but they also must accept the consequences of their political decisions. Hamas launches terrorist attacks against Israelis and Westerners. Just because Hamas won an election doesn’t mean the West has to ignore its terrorism and accept it. Just as the Palestinians have a right to elect Hamas, the West has the right to take the position that they will not negotiate with groups that commit terrorism against Westerners.

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By: blueplath http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/08/18/fatima_bhutto_o_1/comment-page-1/#comment-213053 blueplath Wed, 20 Aug 2008 21:25:00 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5352#comment-213053 <blockquote>To me a democratic Pakistan means more attacks on India because I see a popular mandate for hostility towards us. </blockquote> <p>my good man, you're very off in your conjecture that that popular mandate has anti-indian connotations. with a conflict raging on one border, and threat of attack by a superpower hell bent on its scam war on terror, and internal terrorist attacks, and economic turmoil, that quite a thing to say that the popular mandate is anti-indian. i believe the pakistanis have much more on their minds right now.</p> To me a democratic Pakistan means more attacks on India because I see a popular mandate for hostility towards us.

my good man, you’re very off in your conjecture that that popular mandate has anti-indian connotations. with a conflict raging on one border, and threat of attack by a superpower hell bent on its scam war on terror, and internal terrorist attacks, and economic turmoil, that quite a thing to say that the popular mandate is anti-indian. i believe the pakistanis have much more on their minds right now.

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By: louiecypher http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/08/18/fatima_bhutto_o_1/comment-page-1/#comment-213038 louiecypher Wed, 20 Aug 2008 16:24:16 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5352#comment-213038 <p>When did the legal penguins start to show some spine? When the US started pushing for the rageaholic beardos to be grounded ? Where were they before? Clearly Pakistan was not a bastion of civil liberties before the the US started getting "hands on" or the Mush putsch.</p> When did the legal penguins start to show some spine? When the US started pushing for the rageaholic beardos to be grounded ? Where were they before? Clearly Pakistan was not a bastion of civil liberties before the the US started getting “hands on” or the Mush putsch.

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By: Mewa Singh http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/08/18/fatima_bhutto_o_1/comment-page-1/#comment-213030 Mewa Singh Wed, 20 Aug 2008 15:26:58 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5352#comment-213030 <p>Highlighting the importance of the resignation, Pakistani-American blogger and South Asian graduate student Manan Ahmed writes:</p> <blockquote>Well. Pakistan just had a slow-burning, people-powered, secular revolution and they forced a sitting dictator - who had the complete confidence and support of the only superpower in the world - out. Peacefully. Without any bloodshed. Without any crazy mullah grabbing the nukes and blowing up the world. Without inflation hitting 10,000,000%. Without any riots. With suicide bombings in Lahore. With two regions embroiled in near civil-war. With the same corrupt politicians in charge. With the unshakeable faith, the belief, that they deserved justice. That they deserved the right to have the power to act. That they were citizens of their country, not keeps. <b>This is unprecedented. This is historic. This is a momentous time in the history of this nation. It has successfully forced accountability - through peaceful and legal means - on its leaders. The people of Pakistan - lawyers and all - have exercised their agency</b>.[<a href="http://icga.blogspot.com/2008/08/agency.html">link</a>]</blockquote> Highlighting the importance of the resignation, Pakistani-American blogger and South Asian graduate student Manan Ahmed writes:

Well. Pakistan just had a slow-burning, people-powered, secular revolution and they forced a sitting dictator – who had the complete confidence and support of the only superpower in the world – out. Peacefully. Without any bloodshed. Without any crazy mullah grabbing the nukes and blowing up the world. Without inflation hitting 10,000,000%. Without any riots. With suicide bombings in Lahore. With two regions embroiled in near civil-war. With the same corrupt politicians in charge. With the unshakeable faith, the belief, that they deserved justice. That they deserved the right to have the power to act. That they were citizens of their country, not keeps. This is unprecedented. This is historic. This is a momentous time in the history of this nation. It has successfully forced accountability – through peaceful and legal means – on its leaders. The people of Pakistan – lawyers and all – have exercised their agency.[link]
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