Comments on: The Rat People http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/08/01/the_rat_people/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Anonymous http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/08/01/the_rat_people/comment-page-1/#comment-280488 Anonymous Mon, 20 Dec 2010 20:03:49 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5309#comment-280488 <p>Mr. Tamil IITan, looks like you are totally out of touch with reality. This year, i.e. 2010, students from A.P. bagged 7 out of top 10 ranks in the open/general category. (Ranks: 1,2, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9) and they constitute about 250 to 350 in top 500. The days of glory of tamilnadu, is long gone. After all how can they keep up the tradition, practically driving out all the Iyers and Iyengars from their state?</p> Mr. Tamil IITan, looks like you are totally out of touch with reality. This year, i.e. 2010, students from A.P. bagged 7 out of top 10 ranks in the open/general category. (Ranks: 1,2, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9) and they constitute about 250 to 350 in top 500. The days of glory of tamilnadu, is long gone. After all how can they keep up the tradition, practically driving out all the Iyers and Iyengars from their state?

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By: tamil iitian http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/08/01/the_rat_people/comment-page-1/#comment-210997 tamil iitian Mon, 04 Aug 2008 19:14:42 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5309#comment-210997 <blockquote>Atleast in IIT Chennai they are more than half the crowd, I think. </blockquote> <p>In my time, they were around a fifth or a quarter, <b>at most</b>, I think. Probably one of the biggest groups on campus, but nowhere near half.</p> <blockquote>. But AP is the number one state in sending students to IITs. </blockquote> <p>Those are interesting stats, thanks for the link. Don't know how the article defines "likely to get admission into various IITs", but JEE ranks over 6000 people, and admits around 5000, so this comes to a number of around 11% of the total admitted stats - which may not necessarily make them the single largest state (and also discounts per capita). Still significant and impressive, though. Certainly far better than the intake from Tamilnadu (which used to be mostly Chennai in my time, in any case.)</p> Atleast in IIT Chennai they are more than half the crowd, I think.

In my time, they were around a fifth or a quarter, at most, I think. Probably one of the biggest groups on campus, but nowhere near half.

. But AP is the number one state in sending students to IITs.

Those are interesting stats, thanks for the link. Don’t know how the article defines “likely to get admission into various IITs”, but JEE ranks over 6000 people, and admits around 5000, so this comes to a number of around 11% of the total admitted stats – which may not necessarily make them the single largest state (and also discounts per capita). Still significant and impressive, though. Certainly far better than the intake from Tamilnadu (which used to be mostly Chennai in my time, in any case.)

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By: Filmiholic http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/08/01/the_rat_people/comment-page-1/#comment-210976 Filmiholic Mon, 04 Aug 2008 17:59:45 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5309#comment-210976 <p>Rick Bragg <a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D02E6D71F31F93BA15753C1A9679C8B63&&scp=5&sq=rat%20people%20rick%20bragg&st=cse">wrote about this </a>back when he was in the region after 9/11.</p> Rick Bragg wrote about this back when he was in the region after 9/11.

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By: Ponniyin Selvan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/08/01/the_rat_people/comment-page-1/#comment-210779 Ponniyin Selvan Sun, 03 Aug 2008 02:54:42 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5309#comment-210779 <blockquote>apparently, the advent of coaching classes means that the top jee ranks (and by this i mean less than 500) are dominated by people from the north. even in my time, there were a lot of telugu folks, but it was nowhere near half. probably about a third to a quarter, at most.</blockquote> <p>I could have exaggerated a bit. Atleast in IIT Chennai they are more than half the crowd, I think. But AP is the number one state in sending students to IITs.</p> <p>http://www.hinduonnet.com/2007/05/31/stories/2007053104550600.htm</p> <blockquote>HYDERABAD: Students from Andhra Pradesh have reaped a rich harvest in the Indian Institutes of Technology-Joint Entrance Examination (IIT-JEE) this year and more than 600 students are likely to get admission into various IITs. </blockquote> apparently, the advent of coaching classes means that the top jee ranks (and by this i mean less than 500) are dominated by people from the north. even in my time, there were a lot of telugu folks, but it was nowhere near half. probably about a third to a quarter, at most.

I could have exaggerated a bit. Atleast in IIT Chennai they are more than half the crowd, I think. But AP is the number one state in sending students to IITs.

http://www.hinduonnet.com/2007/05/31/stories/2007053104550600.htm

HYDERABAD: Students from Andhra Pradesh have reaped a rich harvest in the Indian Institutes of Technology-Joint Entrance Examination (IIT-JEE) this year and more than 600 students are likely to get admission into various IITs.
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By: just curious http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/08/01/the_rat_people/comment-page-1/#comment-210778 just curious Sun, 03 Aug 2008 02:37:26 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5309#comment-210778 <p><i>34 · <b><a href="http://www.scienceblogs.com" rel="nofollow">razib</a></b> <a href="http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/005309.html#comment210770">said</a></i></p> <blockquote>p.s. i did a survey of IIT academics, tamils were overrepresented (i think like 30% or so).</blockquote> <p>could you post the link to the publication? or data set?</p> 34 · razib said

p.s. i did a survey of IIT academics, tamils were overrepresented (i think like 30% or so).

could you post the link to the publication? or data set?

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By: tamil iitian http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/08/01/the_rat_people/comment-page-1/#comment-210776 tamil iitian Sun, 03 Aug 2008 01:57:58 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5309#comment-210776 <p><i>35 · <b>Ponniyin Selvan</b> <a href="http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/005309.html#comment210775">said</a></i></p> <blockquote>Telugus dominate the IIT, around half the people who qualify for the IITs are from Andhra Pradesh, I think.</blockquote> <p>apparently, the advent of coaching classes means that the top jee ranks (and by this i mean less than 500) are dominated by people from the north. even in my time, there were a lot of telugu folks, but it was nowhere near half. probably about a third to a quarter, at most.</p> <blockquote><b>razib</b> said in 34: p.s. i did a survey of IIT academics, tamils were overrepresented (i think like 30% or so). i didn't check which were brahmins.</blockquote> <p>i am not sure what this (or the other iit stats in 21) proves. there are several social factors that lead to differing interest in iit among different communities. for example, tam brams in tamilnadu who want to get into engg know that state engg colleges are not really an option due to reservation. further, the desirability of an engg career is vastly different among different communities, so without normalizing or keeping other factors similar, i am not sure what these numbers prove. otherwise, it is just like bush's statement about indian overconsumption of food.</p> 35 · Ponniyin Selvan said

Telugus dominate the IIT, around half the people who qualify for the IITs are from Andhra Pradesh, I think.

apparently, the advent of coaching classes means that the top jee ranks (and by this i mean less than 500) are dominated by people from the north. even in my time, there were a lot of telugu folks, but it was nowhere near half. probably about a third to a quarter, at most.

razib said in 34: p.s. i did a survey of IIT academics, tamils were overrepresented (i think like 30% or so). i didn’t check which were brahmins.

i am not sure what this (or the other iit stats in 21) proves. there are several social factors that lead to differing interest in iit among different communities. for example, tam brams in tamilnadu who want to get into engg know that state engg colleges are not really an option due to reservation. further, the desirability of an engg career is vastly different among different communities, so without normalizing or keeping other factors similar, i am not sure what these numbers prove. otherwise, it is just like bush’s statement about indian overconsumption of food.

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By: Ponniyin Selvan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/08/01/the_rat_people/comment-page-1/#comment-210775 Ponniyin Selvan Sun, 03 Aug 2008 01:09:11 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5309#comment-210775 <blockquote>p.s. i did a survey of IIT academics, tamils were overrepresented (i think like 30% or so). i didn't check which were brahmins.</blockquote> <p>I guess, it's mostly Tamil Brahmins. But the scenario is changed over the last 10+ years or so. Telugus dominate the IIT, around half the people who qualify for the IITs are from Andhra Pradesh, I think.</p> <p>Still, cross cousin marriages (or atleast within close relatives) are the norm in rural Tamilnadu.</p> p.s. i did a survey of IIT academics, tamils were overrepresented (i think like 30% or so). i didn’t check which were brahmins.

I guess, it’s mostly Tamil Brahmins. But the scenario is changed over the last 10+ years or so. Telugus dominate the IIT, around half the people who qualify for the IITs are from Andhra Pradesh, I think.

Still, cross cousin marriages (or atleast within close relatives) are the norm in rural Tamilnadu.

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By: razib http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/08/01/the_rat_people/comment-page-1/#comment-210770 razib Sat, 02 Aug 2008 23:46:37 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5309#comment-210770 <p><i>What about the polygamous sect in texas (mormons) that recently appeared in the media? </i></p> <p>they have other serious rare diseases. inbreeding has the effect of reducing effective population size, which increases the stochastic aspect of change in gene frequencies, so you basically are cranking a population through a lot of genetic drift. so you have messed up stuff drifting up to fixation (or near). but what messed up stuff crops up is undetermined.</p> <p>p.s. i did a survey of IIT academics, tamils were overrepresented (i think like 30% or so). i didn't check which were brahmins.</p> What about the polygamous sect in texas (mormons) that recently appeared in the media?

they have other serious rare diseases. inbreeding has the effect of reducing effective population size, which increases the stochastic aspect of change in gene frequencies, so you basically are cranking a population through a lot of genetic drift. so you have messed up stuff drifting up to fixation (or near). but what messed up stuff crops up is undetermined.

p.s. i did a survey of IIT academics, tamils were overrepresented (i think like 30% or so). i didn’t check which were brahmins.

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By: Caramel http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/08/01/the_rat_people/comment-page-1/#comment-210760 Caramel Sat, 02 Aug 2008 18:19:44 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5309#comment-210760 <p>In North India your cousins are considered your brothers and sisters.</p> <p>But aunty fetish is OK.</p> In North India your cousins are considered your brothers and sisters.

But aunty fetish is OK.

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By: louiecypher http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/08/01/the_rat_people/comment-page-1/#comment-210758 louiecypher Sat, 02 Aug 2008 17:12:37 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5309#comment-210758 <blockquote>From what I know of hinduism, people are put into gotras (based on the 7 rishis?) and people from the same gotra cannot marry each other. The gotra is determined at birth (the natal chart). This is ofcourse not a fool-proof way of preventing inbreeding, but it does try to keep things mixed, although the super-set is the same (and maybe considered as inbred).</blockquote> <p>That's just it though.....there are many "Hinduisms" so you will always find exceptions if the norm is defined as Brahminical Hinduism. Regarding Gotras, some Tamil/Kannada non-Brahmin castes have equivalents called kootams or kulams and membership is defined paternally. You can't marry within the same gotra but cross cousins can marry. So the inbreeding still happens but just not on the paternal side of descent.</p> <p>As far as Tamil Brahmins go, I believe Iyers also allow cross cousin marriage (following the Tamil norm) but I believe Iyengars do not.</p> From what I know of hinduism, people are put into gotras (based on the 7 rishis?) and people from the same gotra cannot marry each other. The gotra is determined at birth (the natal chart). This is ofcourse not a fool-proof way of preventing inbreeding, but it does try to keep things mixed, although the super-set is the same (and maybe considered as inbred).

That’s just it though…..there are many “Hinduisms” so you will always find exceptions if the norm is defined as Brahminical Hinduism. Regarding Gotras, some Tamil/Kannada non-Brahmin castes have equivalents called kootams or kulams and membership is defined paternally. You can’t marry within the same gotra but cross cousins can marry. So the inbreeding still happens but just not on the paternal side of descent.

As far as Tamil Brahmins go, I believe Iyers also allow cross cousin marriage (following the Tamil norm) but I believe Iyengars do not.

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