Comments on: We are not models…here is data http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/06/10/we_are_not_mode/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Camille http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/06/10/we_are_not_mode/comment-page-1/#comment-206126 Camille Sat, 14 Jun 2008 17:08:34 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5243#comment-206126 <p>Abhi, I'm not sure I'm following your argument. Is it that AA's really are model minorities, and that those pesky backwards PIs are dragging us down?</p> Abhi, I’m not sure I’m following your argument. Is it that AA’s really are model minorities, and that those pesky backwards PIs are dragging us down?

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By: Malathi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/06/10/we_are_not_mode/comment-page-1/#comment-205869 Malathi Thu, 12 Jun 2008 21:15:57 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5243#comment-205869 <p>The article, published in 1980, is extremely interesting but, I suspect, for completely different reasons than those that arose in the context of this sub-thread. You can access it in its entirety <a href="http://www.jstor.org/stable/1043029?seq=2">here</a>.</p> <p>The statistic above is based on 1977-78 data from UGC, Delhi: "There are about 180,000 academics in India spread through some 3,000 colleges, 105 universities, and a number of specialized institutions for technology, engineering, management, and other fields. Responsible for the education of 2,500,000 students, they constitute the third largest academic community in the world."</p> <p>In other words, given our population, it is surprising we are not the 2nd largest in the world. A more interesting use of the statistic would be to see how we do in the rankings with respect to teacher:student ratio or the number of academics per million population, etc. Any indicator adjusting for population.</p> <p>The article makes no claims about Indian academics outside of India.</p> The article, published in 1980, is extremely interesting but, I suspect, for completely different reasons than those that arose in the context of this sub-thread. You can access it in its entirety here.

The statistic above is based on 1977-78 data from UGC, Delhi: “There are about 180,000 academics in India spread through some 3,000 colleges, 105 universities, and a number of specialized institutions for technology, engineering, management, and other fields. Responsible for the education of 2,500,000 students, they constitute the third largest academic community in the world.”

In other words, given our population, it is surprising we are not the 2nd largest in the world. A more interesting use of the statistic would be to see how we do in the rankings with respect to teacher:student ratio or the number of academics per million population, etc. Any indicator adjusting for population.

The article makes no claims about Indian academics outside of India.

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By: Manju http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/06/10/we_are_not_mode/comment-page-1/#comment-205863 Manju Thu, 12 Jun 2008 20:38:28 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5243#comment-205863 <blockquote>Secondly, where the heck did you get the idea that indians are over-represented in global academia?</blockquote> <p>"<a href="http://ann.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/448/1/139?ck=nck">Indian academics constitute the third largest academic community in the world</a>. As university graduates in a country in which 70 percent of the population is illiterate, and as heirs to one of the most ancient traditions of learning, they are a highly privileged elite. As guardians of the intellectual and political formation of youth in one of the world's largest democracies and developing nations they hold a unique position of influence and power in the Third World."</p> <blockquote>No indian college is ranked in the top 100 of the international rankings.</blockquote> <p>true but, <a href="http://www.topuniversities.com/worlduniversityrankings/results/2007/subject_rankings/technology">IIT ranks among the top tech colleges</a> and anecdotally, ranks right up there with MIT when it comes to recruiting for silicon valley, tech vc, and quant trading on wall street.</p> Secondly, where the heck did you get the idea that indians are over-represented in global academia?

Indian academics constitute the third largest academic community in the world. As university graduates in a country in which 70 percent of the population is illiterate, and as heirs to one of the most ancient traditions of learning, they are a highly privileged elite. As guardians of the intellectual and political formation of youth in one of the world’s largest democracies and developing nations they hold a unique position of influence and power in the Third World.”

No indian college is ranked in the top 100 of the international rankings.

true but, IIT ranks among the top tech colleges and anecdotally, ranks right up there with MIT when it comes to recruiting for silicon valley, tech vc, and quant trading on wall street.

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By: Salil Maniktahla http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/06/10/we_are_not_mode/comment-page-1/#comment-205838 Salil Maniktahla Thu, 12 Jun 2008 16:22:39 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5243#comment-205838 <p>Quinn (29)</p> <blockquote>"We are not models.......we are losers" that is what leftists want to hear. Leftists are wondering why Asian americans are not climbing on the victims of white America gravy train.</blockquote> <p>Troll alert.</p> <p><em>yawn</em></p> Quinn (29)

“We are not models…….we are losers” that is what leftists want to hear. Leftists are wondering why Asian americans are not climbing on the victims of white America gravy train.

Troll alert.

yawn

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By: Sachin http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/06/10/we_are_not_mode/comment-page-1/#comment-205804 Sachin Wed, 11 Jun 2008 23:25:01 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5243#comment-205804 <p>loved that last comment, razib...lol</p> loved that last comment, razib…lol

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By: razib http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/06/10/we_are_not_mode/comment-page-1/#comment-205785 razib Wed, 11 Jun 2008 21:42:05 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5243#comment-205785 <p>vyasa = macaca roach.</p> vyasa = macaca roach.

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By: Vyasa http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/06/10/we_are_not_mode/comment-page-1/#comment-205777 Vyasa Wed, 11 Jun 2008 21:07:20 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5243#comment-205777 <p><i>33 · <b>louiecypher</b> <a href="http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/005243.html#comment205770">said</a></i></p> <blockquote> The Indian elites always valued education but they thought that the peasants/untouchables were unworthy and excluded them. I am not sure how this self-deluded but in any case I invite you to f*ck off. </blockquote> <p>Who are these "indian elites"? The indian elite that historically monopolized education was the brahmin caste and the education it valued involved their priestly profession, not the secular, scientific education that is being discussed here. Of course it is seriously delusional of you to claim that indians are over-represented in international academia. The indian group (caste) that you are extolling here is over-represented in <b>indian</b> academia but is that something to be proud of considering how shabby indian education is? No indian college is ranked in the top 100 of the international rankings. Secondly, these educated indian "elite" have proved by their accomplishments that they rank among the most corrupt and incompetent college graduates in the entire world.</p> 33 · louiecypher said

The Indian elites always valued education but they thought that the peasants/untouchables were unworthy and excluded them. I am not sure how this self-deluded but in any case I invite you to f*ck off.

Who are these “indian elites”? The indian elite that historically monopolized education was the brahmin caste and the education it valued involved their priestly profession, not the secular, scientific education that is being discussed here. Of course it is seriously delusional of you to claim that indians are over-represented in international academia. The indian group (caste) that you are extolling here is over-represented in indian academia but is that something to be proud of considering how shabby indian education is? No indian college is ranked in the top 100 of the international rankings. Secondly, these educated indian “elite” have proved by their accomplishments that they rank among the most corrupt and incompetent college graduates in the entire world.

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By: louiecypher http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/06/10/we_are_not_mode/comment-page-1/#comment-205774 louiecypher Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:45:43 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5243#comment-205774 <p>Oh and Vyasa you tard... I said "some groups", so don't just simply divide 1 billion Indians by all of humanity and go off on one of you rants about how we are hardly 1/6th of Nobel prize winners etc.</p> Oh and Vyasa you tard… I said “some groups”, so don’t just simply divide 1 billion Indians by all of humanity and go off on one of you rants about how we are hardly 1/6th of Nobel prize winners etc.

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By: louiecypher http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/06/10/we_are_not_mode/comment-page-1/#comment-205770 louiecypher Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:41:00 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5243#comment-205770 <p>Vyasa: You are slave to a particular meme I see. The Indian elites always valued education but they thought that the peasants/untouchables were unworthy and excluded them. I am not sure how this self-deluded but in any case I invite you to f*ck off.</p> Vyasa: You are slave to a particular meme I see. The Indian elites always valued education but they thought that the peasants/untouchables were unworthy and excluded them. I am not sure how this self-deluded but in any case I invite you to f*ck off.

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By: Vyasa http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/06/10/we_are_not_mode/comment-page-1/#comment-205768 Vyasa Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:33:02 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5243#comment-205768 <p>louiecypher:</p> <blockquote>This isn't hubris on my part, Indian culture (which holds education as sacred and many to be spiritually unclean) explains both why you have some groups that are overrepresented in global academia</blockquote> <p>This is both hubris and self-delusion. A culture that holds education in high esteem wouldnt have the world's largest concentration of illiterates even after 60 years of "independence" from its colonial masters. Secondly, where the heck did you get the idea that indians are over-represented in global academia?</p> louiecypher:

This isn’t hubris on my part, Indian culture (which holds education as sacred and many to be spiritually unclean) explains both why you have some groups that are overrepresented in global academia

This is both hubris and self-delusion. A culture that holds education in high esteem wouldnt have the world’s largest concentration of illiterates even after 60 years of “independence” from its colonial masters. Secondly, where the heck did you get the idea that indians are over-represented in global academia?

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