I’m actually pretty hopeful that either Obama or McCain will stop this torture nonsense. Maybe I’m still being naive, though I think I’m right.

Perhaps if they had been a little more diligent on using ‘torture’ prior to 9/11, twin towers might still be standing, and Iraq war may not have been necessary. Criticize Bush all you want, he has kept the country safe from attacks after 9/11. Life under either of the two presidential choices we have will make us ‘long’ for the Bush years. We are headed towards a socialist cesspool of double digit unemployment, inflation and a stagnant or declining economy.

Who are you referring to when you say “they” in the first sentence? Who are “they”? Just wondering. Should the Bush administration been a little more diligent (on using torture, etc) since Bush was in office during the tragic events of 9/11/01?

I think Bush and his folks like Cheney, Bernanke etc. are responsible for giving the US economy a great head start toward a “socialist cesspool of double digit unemployment, inflation and a stagnant or declining economy.” The US economy/job situation under Bill Clinton was way better, even though he (and others) intially had to deal with a messed up economy courtesy of the older Bush administration. I actually “long” for the last 2 years of the Clinton Presidency. Jobs were plentiful, food and fuel prices were reasonable for most Americans during those times. Now, the media is drowning us in headlines like “Homes in Foreclosure Top One Million” (Cnnmoney.com), one trillion dollars unaccounted for or “lost” in the Pentagon, and food, fuel & oil prices skyrocketing and so on. Obama, McCain or even Senator Clinton will be much better than what we have now. Personally, now I am leaning towards McCain but keeping an open mind on Obama.

The next President and his/her administration will probably not have the time or resources to deal with the issue of floating Guantanamos in the Indian Ocean. Don’t count on Bush and his guys seriously investigating cases of land or sea or interplanetary etc torture, either. Unfortunately, most Americans are apathetic and don’t worry about war/torture issues unless it affects them personally. (The average American is probably struggling with an uncertain economy and job situation and tightening their belts, and so forth.) There may be a few morally correct and ethical groups like the CCR lawyers that Former Krishna Kid mentioned in Post #15, but again, challenging these atrocities/torture cases may not get much media attention. Thank goodness for sites like Sepia Mutiny who are bold enough to cover a wide variety of important topics not covered in the usual media outlets like CNN, FOX etc. I am not trying to be depressing but this is what I have observed. Most likely, the next US administration will concentrate on economic issues.

Torturing innocent people may not be the best way to get allies on our side. It can cause resentment in the people treated inhumanely. There is no easy solution since it is difficult to determine who is a terrorist, and who is just a regular law abiding person.

There is therefore no question that torture is a crime. However Guantanamo and ships at sea pose the question of who has jurisdiction to enforce the law. Additionally, and unsurprisingly, the US has not admitted to a policy of torture but rather only “enhanced interrogation techniques”. A lot of information is available on the web, but you might want to start with the Center for Constitutional Rights whose lawyers are among those trying to hold the Bush Administration accountable despite the secrecy and legal gymnastics (such as the infamous Yoo Memorandums) surrounding the administrations actions. There is also this campaign to make rejection of torture an issue in the presidential campaign.

I’d also recommend these books.

Abhi, I could be wrong, but I’ve heard that part of the reason for holding people in ships (or basically, floating prisons) is also to avoid legal regimes. I know that sounds nuts, but the impression I’ve gotten is that a mixture of American and non-American prisoners (or suspects, since they aren’t charged with anything) are held indefinitely on these ships, subjected to similar torture techniques as we see in Gitmo, but that they are also so “off the grid” that it is nearly impossible for their families to locate and free them. I think the decision to do this out in the ocean indicates an understanding that there’s a fundamental wrong here — it’s an attempt to avoid specific court systems, due process, etc. While I know some of this stuff has existed covertly, the sheer scale and the public nature of this insanity under this administration is mind-boggling.

You are 100% correct and your explanation is very logical. This (taking the evil business of torture to the seas) is a very creative way to get away with torturing people. Are there any (international) law experts out there who can tell if this legal or any internation rules against this type of activity?

Dude, way to be a buzzkill.