Comments on: Outsourcing in equilibrium? http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/05/27/outsourcing_in/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: legal outsourcing http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/05/27/outsourcing_in/comment-page-1/#comment-229626 legal outsourcing Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:38:38 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5213#comment-229626 <p>American Discovery is the leading knowledge-based provider of legal process outsourcing providing corporations and law firms with increased quality controls and cost efficiencies. <a href="http://www.americandiscovery.com/ ">legal outsourcing</a></p> American Discovery is the leading knowledge-based provider of legal process outsourcing providing corporations and law firms with increased quality controls and cost efficiencies. legal outsourcing

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By: Sandeep Sood http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/05/27/outsourcing_in/comment-page-1/#comment-204454 Sandeep Sood Wed, 28 May 2008 09:07:18 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5213#comment-204454 <p>It is difficult to argue with a potential young entrepreneur who has a shot at making more in one year than his father made in the first 10 years of working. However, it is important that India begins establishing an innovative culture.</p> <p>The day labor and currency arbitrage vanish is the day that India BEGINS creating a culture of innovation in its software industry. And building that culture takes time.</p> <p>That doesn't mean that a business based on arbitrage isn't the smart thing to do...just that true innovation is necessary to sustain the industry for the next few decades.</p> It is difficult to argue with a potential young entrepreneur who has a shot at making more in one year than his father made in the first 10 years of working. However, it is important that India begins establishing an innovative culture.

The day labor and currency arbitrage vanish is the day that India BEGINS creating a culture of innovation in its software industry. And building that culture takes time.

That doesn’t mean that a business based on arbitrage isn’t the smart thing to do…just that true innovation is necessary to sustain the industry for the next few decades.

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By: RC http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/05/27/outsourcing_in/comment-page-1/#comment-204440 RC Wed, 28 May 2008 03:42:06 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5213#comment-204440 <p>I don't understand why people get all worked up about Indian entrepreneurs not making their own software products. They don't make new products not because they cant, but it does not make business sense to do so. Making a new product in software world means high initial investment and high risk and a moderate return. When there is easy, low risk, sure thing of labor and currency arbitrage available, no smart businessman would risk investing in a new product.</p> <p>The day labor and currency arbitrage vanishes (and it will, all arbitrages eventually go away. There is no exception) Indian software firms will get into the high initial investment, high risk game of product development.</p> I don’t understand why people get all worked up about Indian entrepreneurs not making their own software products. They don’t make new products not because they cant, but it does not make business sense to do so. Making a new product in software world means high initial investment and high risk and a moderate return. When there is easy, low risk, sure thing of labor and currency arbitrage available, no smart businessman would risk investing in a new product.

The day labor and currency arbitrage vanishes (and it will, all arbitrages eventually go away. There is no exception) Indian software firms will get into the high initial investment, high risk game of product development.

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By: Sandeep Sood http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/05/27/outsourcing_in/comment-page-1/#comment-204439 Sandeep Sood Wed, 28 May 2008 03:28:35 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5213#comment-204439 <p>At the risk of sounding like a shill (which I admittedly am), I disagree with Ennis and Sramana Mitra's claims of the death (or even an equilibrium) for Indian outsourcing. While I agree that there is a labor shortage, the industry is going through a maturation process that is good for the indian economy.</p> <p>Since Legal outsourcing is relatively new, Indian IT is a better example. An industry essentially built on Y2K paranoia, most Indian firms are still handling rudimentary tasks for their corporate clients. However, there has been a steady (albeit slow and clumsy) movement up the value chain. The same programmer that was only handling testing for a software application in 1999 is now making minor enhancements and managing the application. Next, his team might get the opportunity to write the next version. Those that learn how to perform at this level can and are demanding higher salaries. Fortunately, their US counterparts are demanding even higher salaries for the same tasks (and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future).</p> <p>This demand for better and better labor in the IT industry will get a response from the market...since it's India, the response will be slow and clumsy. But as skills improve, we may even see [gasp] entrepreneurs developing their own software products.</p> At the risk of sounding like a shill (which I admittedly am), I disagree with Ennis and Sramana Mitra’s claims of the death (or even an equilibrium) for Indian outsourcing. While I agree that there is a labor shortage, the industry is going through a maturation process that is good for the indian economy.

Since Legal outsourcing is relatively new, Indian IT is a better example. An industry essentially built on Y2K paranoia, most Indian firms are still handling rudimentary tasks for their corporate clients. However, there has been a steady (albeit slow and clumsy) movement up the value chain. The same programmer that was only handling testing for a software application in 1999 is now making minor enhancements and managing the application. Next, his team might get the opportunity to write the next version. Those that learn how to perform at this level can and are demanding higher salaries. Fortunately, their US counterparts are demanding even higher salaries for the same tasks (and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future).

This demand for better and better labor in the IT industry will get a response from the market…since it’s India, the response will be slow and clumsy. But as skills improve, we may even see [gasp] entrepreneurs developing their own software products.

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By: dipanjan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/05/27/outsourcing_in/comment-page-1/#comment-204436 dipanjan Wed, 28 May 2008 02:10:29 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5213#comment-204436 <p>A couple of interesting posts from Sramana Mitra's blog. [<a href="http://www.forbes.com/2008/02/29/mitra-india-outsourcing-tech-enter-cx_sm_0229outsource.html">death of indian outsourcing</a>] [<a href="http://sramanamitra.com/2008/04/03/wave-3-of-indian-outsourcing/">wave 3 of indian outsourcing</a>]</p> <blockquote>are moving manufacturing operations to the US because between rising labor costs and other transaction costs,</blockquote> <p>A new report from CIBC World Markets finds that escalating energy prices might reverse some of outsourced manufacturing. [<a href="http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/05-27-2008/0004820970&EDATE=">link</a>]</p> A couple of interesting posts from Sramana Mitra’s blog. [death of indian outsourcing] [wave 3 of indian outsourcing]

are moving manufacturing operations to the US because between rising labor costs and other transaction costs,

A new report from CIBC World Markets finds that escalating energy prices might reverse some of outsourced manufacturing. [link]

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By: rob http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/05/27/outsourcing_in/comment-page-1/#comment-204426 rob Tue, 27 May 2008 23:21:04 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5213#comment-204426 <blockquote>I suspect the work that these lawyers are doing is glorified paralegal work.</blockquote> <p>Spot on. The cream of the crop of Indian-trained lawyers are going to work for <a href="http://www.economist.com/business/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11090513">"virtual Indian practices,"</a> rather than doing the outsourced drone-work.</p> I suspect the work that these lawyers are doing is glorified paralegal work.

Spot on. The cream of the crop of Indian-trained lawyers are going to work for “virtual Indian practices,” rather than doing the outsourced drone-work.

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By: melbourne desi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/05/27/outsourcing_in/comment-page-1/#comment-204425 melbourne desi Tue, 27 May 2008 23:18:17 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5213#comment-204425 <blockquote>And wages in India for the most qualified workers has increased to the point where there are little to no cost savings for companies:</blockquote> <p>yes and no. It is the Indian middle level managers who will be hit really hard. The ones whose value addition is predominantly one of a post office - routing etc. At the higher end the value add is one of tech skills coupled with strong communication skills. Comms skills - an area where most Desi Managers are pretty weak as compared to their Western Counterparts. As early as 2004, the outsourcing arms of IBM / HPQ / MSFT had modelled moving a number of jobs to South Dakota / Montana. This is now coming to pass. Note : Call center jobs are McJobs and moving them around is relatively easy.</p> <p>Many friends and ex-colleagues in Management positions have moved out of companies that focus on overseas customers to ones that are desi focused. The trend will accelerate whereby one gains experience working in western focused firms and then leverage that experience into desi focused firms.</p> And wages in India for the most qualified workers has increased to the point where there are little to no cost savings for companies:

yes and no. It is the Indian middle level managers who will be hit really hard. The ones whose value addition is predominantly one of a post office – routing etc. At the higher end the value add is one of tech skills coupled with strong communication skills. Comms skills – an area where most Desi Managers are pretty weak as compared to their Western Counterparts. As early as 2004, the outsourcing arms of IBM / HPQ / MSFT had modelled moving a number of jobs to South Dakota / Montana. This is now coming to pass. Note : Call center jobs are McJobs and moving them around is relatively easy.

Many friends and ex-colleagues in Management positions have moved out of companies that focus on overseas customers to ones that are desi focused. The trend will accelerate whereby one gains experience working in western focused firms and then leverage that experience into desi focused firms.

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By: Ennis http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/05/27/outsourcing_in/comment-page-1/#comment-204424 Ennis Tue, 27 May 2008 23:13:59 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5213#comment-204424 <p>The client facing work that I can imagine being outsourced would be things like do it yourself wills, where they might be marketed as advisors or some such. That said, small time lawyers would legislate that sort of work out, pdq.</p> <p>Honestly, I don't even see this as being an area of much growth. The article claims that Indians can handle US commercial law b/c it's based on common law tradition. I suspect the work that these lawyers are doing is glorified paralegal work. It would take more experience to handle something tricky, and I don't think that the two legal systems are so similar that an Indian lawyer can automatically do a great job in an American context.</p> <p>Accounting is different because many accountants looking for work with multinationals are trained in American accounting standards from the start, and b/c accounting has a fair amount which is common. My cousin is studying accounting in India, and she'll come to America to sit for her CPA. That's the only certification she's looking for.</p> The client facing work that I can imagine being outsourced would be things like do it yourself wills, where they might be marketed as advisors or some such. That said, small time lawyers would legislate that sort of work out, pdq.

Honestly, I don’t even see this as being an area of much growth. The article claims that Indians can handle US commercial law b/c it’s based on common law tradition. I suspect the work that these lawyers are doing is glorified paralegal work. It would take more experience to handle something tricky, and I don’t think that the two legal systems are so similar that an Indian lawyer can automatically do a great job in an American context.

Accounting is different because many accountants looking for work with multinationals are trained in American accounting standards from the start, and b/c accounting has a fair amount which is common. My cousin is studying accounting in India, and she’ll come to America to sit for her CPA. That’s the only certification she’s looking for.

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By: Pagal_Aadmi_for_debauchery http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/05/27/outsourcing_in/comment-page-1/#comment-204423 Pagal_Aadmi_for_debauchery Tue, 27 May 2008 23:02:42 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5213#comment-204423 <p><i>Plus I am not sure if I agree with your description of Indian lawyers, please look up top Indian law firms and I am sure none of their lawyers in advisory fit your description.</i></p> <p>What description are you referring to? Are you suggesting that there can be no lawyer in India named S.P. Raju? You must be a Northie.</p> Plus I am not sure if I agree with your description of Indian lawyers, please look up top Indian law firms and I am sure none of their lawyers in advisory fit your description.

What description are you referring to? Are you suggesting that there can be no lawyer in India named S.P. Raju? You must be a Northie.

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By: umber desi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/05/27/outsourcing_in/comment-page-1/#comment-204422 umber desi Tue, 27 May 2008 22:55:33 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5213#comment-204422 <p>Plus I am not sure if I agree with your description of Indian lawyers, please look up top Indian law firms and I am sure none of their lawyers in advisory fit your description.</p> Plus I am not sure if I agree with your description of Indian lawyers, please look up top Indian law firms and I am sure none of their lawyers in advisory fit your description.

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