Comments on: “The Age of Shiva” — a Review http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/05/05/the_age_of_shiv/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Kate http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/05/05/the_age_of_shiv/comment-page-1/#comment-203029 Kate Sun, 11 May 2008 02:41:29 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5172#comment-203029 <p>Hi all, from the peanut gallery of the book group!! After reading DoV I got going on <b>White Tiger</b>,(Adiga) which seems to me a much better book, and also written in the second person. I think the reason the device works better here than in the DoV is that Suri writes "you" constantly to refer to the character he is addressing, which jumps off the page- and disturbs suspension of disbelief. In <b>White Tiger</b> the author addresses the second person character that the character he is narrating to by their name, or sir, etc. so the reader feels they are still observing and not being directly addressed. (The same goes for the novel <b>Reluctant Fundamentalist</b> by Mohsin Hamid).</p> <p>Lastly, I suddenly realized that the foot touching by the heroine reminds me of the re-take of the veil in neo-Islamic rebellious youth- nose thumbing to those liberal parents. A funny connection.</p> Hi all, from the peanut gallery of the book group!! After reading DoV I got going on White Tiger,(Adiga) which seems to me a much better book, and also written in the second person. I think the reason the device works better here than in the DoV is that Suri writes “you” constantly to refer to the character he is addressing, which jumps off the page- and disturbs suspension of disbelief. In White Tiger the author addresses the second person character that the character he is narrating to by their name, or sir, etc. so the reader feels they are still observing and not being directly addressed. (The same goes for the novel Reluctant Fundamentalist by Mohsin Hamid).

Lastly, I suddenly realized that the foot touching by the heroine reminds me of the re-take of the veil in neo-Islamic rebellious youth- nose thumbing to those liberal parents. A funny connection.

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By: chick pea http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/05/05/the_age_of_shiv/comment-page-1/#comment-203004 chick pea Sat, 10 May 2008 18:55:14 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5172#comment-203004 <p>this is a question for ak. Regarding books about delhi, have u read city of djinns by william dalrymple. he really brings the city alive. also manju kapur's books are very delhi especially "a married woman".</p> <p>sorry for going off the subject :)</p> this is a question for ak. Regarding books about delhi, have u read city of djinns by william dalrymple. he really brings the city alive. also manju kapur’s books are very delhi especially “a married woman”.

sorry for going off the subject :)

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By: chick pea http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/05/05/the_age_of_shiv/comment-page-1/#comment-203001 chick pea Sat, 10 May 2008 18:17:55 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5172#comment-203001 <p>I've only touched someone's feet on the one occasion and the person was my very old grandmother so I didn't mind. I didn't actually touch them but my hand kind of hovered over them like I've seen it done in hindi movies. But it is the oddest gesture. I'm sure that in the book it's symbolic of something. I'm not sure what but it could be Meera's subservient position or it could symbolize her resignation or surrender to her circumstances.</p> I’ve only touched someone’s feet on the one occasion and the person was my very old grandmother so I didn’t mind. I didn’t actually touch them but my hand kind of hovered over them like I’ve seen it done in hindi movies. But it is the oddest gesture. I’m sure that in the book it’s symbolic of something. I’m not sure what but it could be Meera’s subservient position or it could symbolize her resignation or surrender to her circumstances.

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By: sonia http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/05/05/the_age_of_shiv/comment-page-1/#comment-202580 sonia Wed, 07 May 2008 22:27:04 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5172#comment-202580 <p>Hi Meenakshi, I just wanted to chime in about your points. Spoiler-Alert Laden comment post.</p> <blockquote>1.) Starts up with Dev- to get back at her sister for her own insecurities on not being as beautiful as her. How is that strong? Its selfish and she didn't at all consider the consequences of her immature act. Her competition with her sister continues her whole life. When does she ever mature?</blockquote> <p>Meera starts up w/ Dev because she is in love with him. And only after her sister breaks up with him. Callously. Because she got someone rich. The sister doesn't even have the guts to talk to him directly. And she does consider the consequences of her act, because they stop before having sex, remember? In fact, she owns up to all of that was her fault in that part.</p> <p>Her competition with her sister certainly does not continue her whole life. Her sister comes up, sure, but quicky becomes a peripheral character as she always was. I don't know where you got that she competes w/ her throughout the book. In fact, it's her sister who consistently takes jabs at her. And Meera gets upset/angry, but that's not competition.</p> <blockquote>2.) Defies her father in that one moment- but in the long term shows her dependence by accepting the charity he gives her whole life?</blockquote> <p>I don't understand how you can dismiss that moment. It's that point when she could have taken all that financial support from her father and been out of her husband's house. She had everything that she wanted right there, and she rejected it purely for principal. How many of us do that? She is never dependent on her father. Her father controls and manipulates her, but she never capitalates to his whims. Remember that whole bit about life insurance? It's Dev who leeches off his father-in-law.</p> <blockquote>3.) Single mother in Mumbai- so what? Really didn't feel anything exceptional in terms of her struggle, someone was always there to back her up financially. Did she ever really worry about feeding her kid?</blockquote> <p>"Single mother in Mumbai? So what?" <i>What</i>? I don't really understand statements like that. Did we read the same book? No, somebody wasn't there always to back her up financially. Her father is constantly manipulating her, and one of the themes of the book centers around this control. She works throughout the book, and is independent for much of it. Even when Dev is around, he was jobless for much of it.</p> <blockquote>Anyways, everything is certainly up to interpretation, but the kind of crap put forth in the form of "strength of the female character" in both the Age of Vishnu and The Space Between Us for example, forgets the strength of truly strong female characters that authors like Bapsi Sidwa and Tagore have put forth and told their stories in a compelling manner. </blockquote> <p>I get easily annoyed by this term "strength of the female character" as well. Meera was a fully realized character with human flaws and strengths, and this apparently makes her weak. And what is "truly strong female characters"? What about Sidwa and Tagore's women did you find strong? What is strong?</p> Hi Meenakshi, I just wanted to chime in about your points. Spoiler-Alert Laden comment post.

1.) Starts up with Dev- to get back at her sister for her own insecurities on not being as beautiful as her. How is that strong? Its selfish and she didn’t at all consider the consequences of her immature act. Her competition with her sister continues her whole life. When does she ever mature?

Meera starts up w/ Dev because she is in love with him. And only after her sister breaks up with him. Callously. Because she got someone rich. The sister doesn’t even have the guts to talk to him directly. And she does consider the consequences of her act, because they stop before having sex, remember? In fact, she owns up to all of that was her fault in that part.

Her competition with her sister certainly does not continue her whole life. Her sister comes up, sure, but quicky becomes a peripheral character as she always was. I don’t know where you got that she competes w/ her throughout the book. In fact, it’s her sister who consistently takes jabs at her. And Meera gets upset/angry, but that’s not competition.

2.) Defies her father in that one moment- but in the long term shows her dependence by accepting the charity he gives her whole life?

I don’t understand how you can dismiss that moment. It’s that point when she could have taken all that financial support from her father and been out of her husband’s house. She had everything that she wanted right there, and she rejected it purely for principal. How many of us do that? She is never dependent on her father. Her father controls and manipulates her, but she never capitalates to his whims. Remember that whole bit about life insurance? It’s Dev who leeches off his father-in-law.

3.) Single mother in Mumbai- so what? Really didn’t feel anything exceptional in terms of her struggle, someone was always there to back her up financially. Did she ever really worry about feeding her kid?

“Single mother in Mumbai? So what?” What? I don’t really understand statements like that. Did we read the same book? No, somebody wasn’t there always to back her up financially. Her father is constantly manipulating her, and one of the themes of the book centers around this control. She works throughout the book, and is independent for much of it. Even when Dev is around, he was jobless for much of it.

Anyways, everything is certainly up to interpretation, but the kind of crap put forth in the form of “strength of the female character” in both the Age of Vishnu and The Space Between Us for example, forgets the strength of truly strong female characters that authors like Bapsi Sidwa and Tagore have put forth and told their stories in a compelling manner.

I get easily annoyed by this term “strength of the female character” as well. Meera was a fully realized character with human flaws and strengths, and this apparently makes her weak. And what is “truly strong female characters”? What about Sidwa and Tagore’s women did you find strong? What is strong?

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By: Malathi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/05/05/the_age_of_shiv/comment-page-1/#comment-202524 Malathi Wed, 07 May 2008 17:32:26 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5172#comment-202524 <p>I haven't read the book yet. It is on my list of things to do. But I wanted to share my thoughts on the act of touching feet that don't belong to the spouse.</p> <blockquote>...Then she would bend even lower to touch his feet—first the right, then the left. She would run the same hand over her head to bless herself as she began to rise. </blockquote> <p>I come from a very irreverent family. As far as I know, 3 generations of my kin have not lowered or bent their spines for another human; not once. So as an outsider looking in on adult-children expressing their love, gratitude and respect for their <u><b>parents</b></u>(or gurus, as in Bharatnatyam gurus, etc), I cannot help but wonder if I am missing out on a very unique and beautiful expression of the parent-child (or guru-sishya) relationship. When done right, the gesture is akin to an art form; the body expresses so much: complete surrender of the ego, near-rapturous attention, utter devotion.</p> <p>Of course, not everyone is picture-perfect enough to feed my romantic notions of this tradition. Some, especially the men, are as stiff and awkward as I will be if pushed onto the catwalk and expected to sashay in a seductive manner in front of hundreds of strangers.</p> <p>In my circle, the only times I get to witness similar uninhibited, gracious public displays of highly-esteemed relationships are when the adults are interacting with cuddly toddlers, brand new loves, potted plants and furry pets. And not necessarily in that order.</p> I haven’t read the book yet. It is on my list of things to do. But I wanted to share my thoughts on the act of touching feet that don’t belong to the spouse.

…Then she would bend even lower to touch his feet—first the right, then the left. She would run the same hand over her head to bless herself as she began to rise.

I come from a very irreverent family. As far as I know, 3 generations of my kin have not lowered or bent their spines for another human; not once. So as an outsider looking in on adult-children expressing their love, gratitude and respect for their parents(or gurus, as in Bharatnatyam gurus, etc), I cannot help but wonder if I am missing out on a very unique and beautiful expression of the parent-child (or guru-sishya) relationship. When done right, the gesture is akin to an art form; the body expresses so much: complete surrender of the ego, near-rapturous attention, utter devotion.

Of course, not everyone is picture-perfect enough to feed my romantic notions of this tradition. Some, especially the men, are as stiff and awkward as I will be if pushed onto the catwalk and expected to sashay in a seductive manner in front of hundreds of strangers.

In my circle, the only times I get to witness similar uninhibited, gracious public displays of highly-esteemed relationships are when the adults are interacting with cuddly toddlers, brand new loves, potted plants and furry pets. And not necessarily in that order.

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By: Meenakshi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/05/05/the_age_of_shiv/comment-page-1/#comment-202504 Meenakshi Wed, 07 May 2008 06:35:56 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5172#comment-202504 <p>Sonia, I am the one who spoke to her lack of strength.</p> <p>Here is my view take on your thoughts:</p> <p>1.) Starts up with Dev- to get back at her sister for her own insecurities on not being as beautiful as her. How is that strong? Its selfish and she didn't at all consider the consequences of her immature act. Her competition with her sister continues her whole life. When does she ever mature? 2.) Defies her father in that one moment- but in the long term shows her dependence by accepting the charity he gives her whole life? 3.) Single mother in Mumbai- so what? Really didn't feel anything exceptional in terms of her struggle, someone was always there to back her up financially. Did she ever really worry about feeding her kid?</p> <p>Anyways, everything is certainly up to interpretation, but the kind of crap put forth in the form of "strength of the female character" in both the Age of Vishnu and The Space Between Us for example, forgets the strength of truly strong female characters that authors like Bapsi Sidwa and Tagore have put forth and told their stories in a compelling manner.</p> Sonia, I am the one who spoke to her lack of strength.

Here is my view take on your thoughts:

1.) Starts up with Dev- to get back at her sister for her own insecurities on not being as beautiful as her. How is that strong? Its selfish and she didn’t at all consider the consequences of her immature act. Her competition with her sister continues her whole life. When does she ever mature? 2.) Defies her father in that one moment- but in the long term shows her dependence by accepting the charity he gives her whole life? 3.) Single mother in Mumbai- so what? Really didn’t feel anything exceptional in terms of her struggle, someone was always there to back her up financially. Did she ever really worry about feeding her kid?

Anyways, everything is certainly up to interpretation, but the kind of crap put forth in the form of “strength of the female character” in both the Age of Vishnu and The Space Between Us for example, forgets the strength of truly strong female characters that authors like Bapsi Sidwa and Tagore have put forth and told their stories in a compelling manner.

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By: kal http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/05/05/the_age_of_shiv/comment-page-1/#comment-202482 kal Tue, 06 May 2008 23:20:27 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5172#comment-202482 <p>Wondering!, if desi man is really a man! What sort of man has to declare that he is a man, even when no one questioned his manhood!</p> Wondering!, if desi man is really a man! What sort of man has to declare that he is a man, even when no one questioned his manhood!

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By: Al beruni http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/05/05/the_age_of_shiv/comment-page-1/#comment-202471 Al beruni Tue, 06 May 2008 20:38:26 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5172#comment-202471 <p>where did this "desi man" twit crawl out of? asli namoona hai yeh...</p> where did this “desi man” twit crawl out of? asli namoona hai yeh…

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By: ak http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/05/05/the_age_of_shiv/comment-page-1/#comment-202469 ak Tue, 06 May 2008 20:29:08 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5172#comment-202469 <blockquote>The term was used in July 2003 by British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw ("a complete Horlicks") to describe irregularities in the preparation and provenance of a dossier regarding weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.</blockquote> <p>he he. horlicks is supposed to be wholesome, no - wheat drink and all that?</p> <blockquote>whorlicks? what kind of a name is that for a children's energy drink! these multinational companies corrupting morals of impressionable indian children! it worms its way into their young minds like a subliminal mantra, and next they'll start refusing our wholesome and swadeshi chywanprash.</blockquote> <p>it's true - the kids in the chyanwanprash ads are always more 'healdhy' in the desi way. though, complan takes the cake - those are some serious hatta-khatta kids they use ;) (honestly, have you seen the fat and sugar content in complan? it's disgusting...)</p> <blockquote>ak, i haven't read this one yet -- but i am hoping to like it. special affection for books which have a place for delhi.</blockquote> <p>i take your comment in serious consideration, port, so i will put it on my list of books. btw, not that this is a book, but have you seen khosla ka ghosla - very delhi. love that film.</p> The term was used in July 2003 by British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw (“a complete Horlicks”) to describe irregularities in the preparation and provenance of a dossier regarding weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

he he. horlicks is supposed to be wholesome, no – wheat drink and all that?

whorlicks? what kind of a name is that for a children’s energy drink! these multinational companies corrupting morals of impressionable indian children! it worms its way into their young minds like a subliminal mantra, and next they’ll start refusing our wholesome and swadeshi chywanprash.

it’s true – the kids in the chyanwanprash ads are always more ‘healdhy’ in the desi way. though, complan takes the cake – those are some serious hatta-khatta kids they use ;) (honestly, have you seen the fat and sugar content in complan? it’s disgusting…)

ak, i haven’t read this one yet — but i am hoping to like it. special affection for books which have a place for delhi.

i take your comment in serious consideration, port, so i will put it on my list of books. btw, not that this is a book, but have you seen khosla ka ghosla – very delhi. love that film.

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By: sonia http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/05/05/the_age_of_shiv/comment-page-1/#comment-202465 sonia Tue, 06 May 2008 20:05:59 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5172#comment-202465 <blockquote>even between Meera and Sandhya (don't they have an almost lesbian moment. At least that is how I read it....or maybe I am just a horny toad).</blockquote> <p>Yes, they absolutely did have a lesbian moment,and it was beautifully written scene. Such good writing. Anyway, I wonder if the reason so many readers were put off by Meera is the sexuality evident between herself and her son. And I am wondering where that discomfirt comes from... I mean, did you not think Suri handled it competently? or is it an overall problem with putting sexuality, mother, son together in any way? Did you think it was sensationalist and un-needed? Not believable? I am just curious.</p> <p>I do agree that I found the second person narration somewhat jarring to read at first. But that's just because I am not used to reading second person, and once I did, it was fine.</p> <p>Also reply to this person:</p> <blockquote>She seemed insipid, dull, unable to take a strong decision in her life. Every one of her decisions were based upon what others imposed on her.</blockquote> <p><i>What</i>? No way. She was anything, but. She makes so many strong decisions in her life (spoiler alert), she starts up w/ Dev, orchestrates their courtship, essentially decides their future when she defies her father (albeit in complicated ways), and most importantly... she is a single mother living alone in Bombay! my god, if that by defination, is not strong... then I don't know what is.</p> <p>Also, I did agree that</p> even between Meera and Sandhya (don’t they have an almost lesbian moment. At least that is how I read it….or maybe I am just a horny toad).

Yes, they absolutely did have a lesbian moment,and it was beautifully written scene. Such good writing. Anyway, I wonder if the reason so many readers were put off by Meera is the sexuality evident between herself and her son. And I am wondering where that discomfirt comes from… I mean, did you not think Suri handled it competently? or is it an overall problem with putting sexuality, mother, son together in any way? Did you think it was sensationalist and un-needed? Not believable? I am just curious.

I do agree that I found the second person narration somewhat jarring to read at first. But that’s just because I am not used to reading second person, and once I did, it was fine.

Also reply to this person:

She seemed insipid, dull, unable to take a strong decision in her life. Every one of her decisions were based upon what others imposed on her.

What? No way. She was anything, but. She makes so many strong decisions in her life (spoiler alert), she starts up w/ Dev, orchestrates their courtship, essentially decides their future when she defies her father (albeit in complicated ways), and most importantly… she is a single mother living alone in Bombay! my god, if that by defination, is not strong… then I don’t know what is.

Also, I did agree that

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