Comments on: What’s wrong with medicine http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/03/16/whats_wrong_wit/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Laju K. http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/03/16/whats_wrong_wit/comment-page-2/#comment-197694 Laju K. Sat, 22 Mar 2008 21:08:14 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5096#comment-197694 <p>What's wrong is that for most part everyone, including physicians, seem to be overworked. Everyone has to succeed, do well, etc. before they can retire. It's not that the health care providers do not wish to follow a checklist, which includes washing hands, etc. it's just that they seem to get away with it a little more easily. At the end of the day (I am not referring to the literal end of the day), the physician will perhaps still have a publication, a fancy conference etc to attend or present a medical paper. Whereas if a basic life science researcher, such as a biochemist, microbiologist, or an immunologist does not follow a protocol or a checklist, the scientist might never have any meaningful results in the lab that can be presented. The scientist might have nothing to show for in terms of an accomplishment. Whereas an health care provider can move on from a patient to patient. An infection caused due to negligence cannot be pinned on any one staff member at an hospital, whereas it is not the same in case of a scientist. Therein lies the difference! Laju K.http://lajuk.blogspot.com</p> What’s wrong is that for most part everyone, including physicians, seem to be overworked. Everyone has to succeed, do well, etc. before they can retire. It’s not that the health care providers do not wish to follow a checklist, which includes washing hands, etc. it’s just that they seem to get away with it a little more easily. At the end of the day (I am not referring to the literal end of the day), the physician will perhaps still have a publication, a fancy conference etc to attend or present a medical paper. Whereas if a basic life science researcher, such as a biochemist, microbiologist, or an immunologist does not follow a protocol or a checklist, the scientist might never have any meaningful results in the lab that can be presented. The scientist might have nothing to show for in terms of an accomplishment. Whereas an health care provider can move on from a patient to patient. An infection caused due to negligence cannot be pinned on any one staff member at an hospital, whereas it is not the same in case of a scientist. Therein lies the difference! Laju K.http://lajuk.blogspot.com

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By: Ennis http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/03/16/whats_wrong_wit/comment-page-2/#comment-197624 Ennis Fri, 21 Mar 2008 21:00:03 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5096#comment-197624 <p>Some of these mistakes are pretty brutal:</p> <blockquote>A 78-year-old woman in a German hospital for leg surgery underwent an unnecessary operation on her anus instead. [<a href="http://www.boingboing.net/2008/03/21/surgeons-perform-err.html">Link</a>]</blockquote> <p>There's really no reason for something like that to happen, it's fully preventable.</p> Some of these mistakes are pretty brutal:

A 78-year-old woman in a German hospital for leg surgery underwent an unnecessary operation on her anus instead. [Link]

There’s really no reason for something like that to happen, it’s fully preventable.

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By: le poisson http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/03/16/whats_wrong_wit/comment-page-2/#comment-197569 le poisson Fri, 21 Mar 2008 09:27:47 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5096#comment-197569 <p>very interesting discussion string... I haven't read all of it, but to answer meena's question, although I don't know the exact context, I think that part of the "highest quality care" available in the US is that we offer the most aggressive treatments, without consideration of ability to pay. This, as we have learned now, although rooted in the All-American ethos of rooting for the underdog, or turning a blind eye to class, or in the modern day, ability to pay. Although the rich in America probably get better care, it is marginally so because even the homeless man who sustains a trauma gets, rather has the right to, be an inpatient at America's finest medical institutions. Is this wrong? No...America allows us in some ways to be true to our Hippocratic oaths, however we are doing it in a way that is not sustainable. This, as well as the push to get away from anecdotal medicine, and practice evidence-based medicine I hope is guiding your doctor's prescription decisions.</p> <p>Back to the topic of the looming health care crisis, there are some things for which we as doctors definitely must take responsbility. I agree that the impact of a simple checklist is remarkable, and simple, and doesn't take any additional time. But don't think that some of the "mistakes" aren't actually misconceptions and misunderstandings on the part of the general public. Take, for example, if I have a postop patient who normally takes a certain number of medications at home. In the acute postop setting, many are not that important to have taken, for example zocor, or even antihypertensives. Would I mind if the patient gets them? Not particularly, but I didn't order them because they aren't that important.</p> <p>This, to hawkish family or patients, is seen as a "mistake." Whereas in fact, it is more of a "misperception." This is a very mundane example, but as many things that we are not doing that we should, rest assured that there are just as many if not more things we are being forced to do that we shouldn't. Does anyone ever study the time or efficiency lost in that?</p> very interesting discussion string… I haven’t read all of it, but to answer meena’s question, although I don’t know the exact context, I think that part of the “highest quality care” available in the US is that we offer the most aggressive treatments, without consideration of ability to pay. This, as we have learned now, although rooted in the All-American ethos of rooting for the underdog, or turning a blind eye to class, or in the modern day, ability to pay. Although the rich in America probably get better care, it is marginally so because even the homeless man who sustains a trauma gets, rather has the right to, be an inpatient at America’s finest medical institutions. Is this wrong? No…America allows us in some ways to be true to our Hippocratic oaths, however we are doing it in a way that is not sustainable. This, as well as the push to get away from anecdotal medicine, and practice evidence-based medicine I hope is guiding your doctor’s prescription decisions.

Back to the topic of the looming health care crisis, there are some things for which we as doctors definitely must take responsbility. I agree that the impact of a simple checklist is remarkable, and simple, and doesn’t take any additional time. But don’t think that some of the “mistakes” aren’t actually misconceptions and misunderstandings on the part of the general public. Take, for example, if I have a postop patient who normally takes a certain number of medications at home. In the acute postop setting, many are not that important to have taken, for example zocor, or even antihypertensives. Would I mind if the patient gets them? Not particularly, but I didn’t order them because they aren’t that important.

This, to hawkish family or patients, is seen as a “mistake.” Whereas in fact, it is more of a “misperception.” This is a very mundane example, but as many things that we are not doing that we should, rest assured that there are just as many if not more things we are being forced to do that we shouldn’t. Does anyone ever study the time or efficiency lost in that?

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By: Meena http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/03/16/whats_wrong_wit/comment-page-2/#comment-197419 Meena Wed, 19 Mar 2008 23:27:52 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5096#comment-197419 <p>One thing I have noticed it seems that US doctors are generally less conservative with the type of meds they prescribe than the docs in my country. E.g. I have an auto-immune disease and was started on some lighter meds first of which the dosis was steadily increased if my body did not respond. I haven't had to resort to steroids yet. On the other hand when I speak with US patients for some reason even during their first attack they are started on Prednisone right away. From where this difference? It would seem rather more expensive to prescribe corticosteroids rather than anti-inflammatory drugs.</p> One thing I have noticed it seems that US doctors are generally less conservative with the type of meds they prescribe than the docs in my country. E.g. I have an auto-immune disease and was started on some lighter meds first of which the dosis was steadily increased if my body did not respond. I haven’t had to resort to steroids yet. On the other hand when I speak with US patients for some reason even during their first attack they are started on Prednisone right away. From where this difference? It would seem rather more expensive to prescribe corticosteroids rather than anti-inflammatory drugs.

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By: portmanteau http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/03/16/whats_wrong_wit/comment-page-2/#comment-197355 portmanteau Wed, 19 Mar 2008 15:19:44 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5096#comment-197355 <p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/19/fashion/19beauty.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin">NY Times article today on trends in choosing medical residencies ('Specialties in Vogue'), and why they might be problematic</a>:</p> <blockquote> It is an unfortunate circumstance that you can spend an hour with a patient treating them for diabetes and hypertension and make $100, or you can do Botox and make $2,000 in the same time," said Dr. Eric C. Parlette, 35, a dermatologist in Chestnut Hill, Mass., who chose his field because he wanted to perform procedures, like skin-cancer surgery and cosmetic treatments, while keeping regular hours and earning a rewarding salary. <b>Medical school professors and administrators say such discrepancies are dissuading some top students at American medical schools from entering fields, like family medicine, that manage the most prevalent serious illnesses...</b></blockquote> NY Times article today on trends in choosing medical residencies (‘Specialties in Vogue’), and why they might be problematic:

It is an unfortunate circumstance that you can spend an hour with a patient treating them for diabetes and hypertension and make $100, or you can do Botox and make $2,000 in the same time,” said Dr. Eric C. Parlette, 35, a dermatologist in Chestnut Hill, Mass., who chose his field because he wanted to perform procedures, like skin-cancer surgery and cosmetic treatments, while keeping regular hours and earning a rewarding salary. Medical school professors and administrators say such discrepancies are dissuading some top students at American medical schools from entering fields, like family medicine, that manage the most prevalent serious illnesses…
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By: rob's friend http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/03/16/whats_wrong_wit/comment-page-2/#comment-197344 rob's friend Wed, 19 Mar 2008 05:33:00 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5096#comment-197344 <p>Ok, sorry if I went over the top with the USSR comment, but I think that statements like "for profit parties taking a piece of the health care pie" are extreme on the other side.</p> Ok, sorry if I went over the top with the USSR comment, but I think that statements like “for profit parties taking a piece of the health care pie” are extreme on the other side.

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By: Opka naam kya hai? http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/03/16/whats_wrong_wit/comment-page-2/#comment-197341 Opka naam kya hai? Wed, 19 Mar 2008 04:27:55 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5096#comment-197341 <p>Jauhar argues that poor incentives lead to gigantic amounts of waste in almost all medical practices:</p> <p>Jauhar is the name given to the act of mass suicide committed at the time of partition of India, isn't it? "The women committed jauhar".</p> <p>Thought it an interesting point since there's another topic of the same on here right now.</p> Jauhar argues that poor incentives lead to gigantic amounts of waste in almost all medical practices:

Jauhar is the name given to the act of mass suicide committed at the time of partition of India, isn’t it? “The women committed jauhar”.

Thought it an interesting point since there’s another topic of the same on here right now.

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By: melbourne desi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/03/16/whats_wrong_wit/comment-page-2/#comment-197316 melbourne desi Wed, 19 Mar 2008 01:40:42 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5096#comment-197316 <blockquote>North american food is totally cheep.</blockquote> <p>certainly food is way cheaper in the USA than in Europe or Australia. First time I went to the USA I was astounded that one had to get an appointment to see a specialist - Pure supply and demand mismatch.? If you want to look at a free market in healthcare - india comes pretty close although it does have government hospitals. A few govt hospitals are excellent while the rest are atrocious. As everywhere, the upper class get better healthcare although it is debatable if they are healthier than the lower middle class.</p> North american food is totally cheep.

certainly food is way cheaper in the USA than in Europe or Australia. First time I went to the USA I was astounded that one had to get an appointment to see a specialist – Pure supply and demand mismatch.? If you want to look at a free market in healthcare – india comes pretty close although it does have government hospitals. A few govt hospitals are excellent while the rest are atrocious. As everywhere, the upper class get better healthcare although it is debatable if they are healthier than the lower middle class.

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By: ms1 http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/03/16/whats_wrong_wit/comment-page-2/#comment-197291 ms1 Tue, 18 Mar 2008 23:52:59 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5096#comment-197291 <p><i>14 · <b>JGandhi</b> <a href="http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/005096.html#comment197153">said</a></i></p> <blockquote><i>11 · <b><a href="http://www.scienceblogs.com/gnxp">razib</a></b> <a href="http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/005096.html#comment197149">said</a></i> <blockquote>s noted in the USA today article groups like the AMA have a vested interest in doctors not being too plentiful lest the premium on their skills be de-valued.</blockquote> This is a losing battle. The AMA can restrict all they want but alternative professions and pathways are cropping up. Podiatrists, dentists, optometrists, clinical psychologists, naturopaths, nurses and physician assistants are slowly given more and more leeway to practice medicine that once only MD doctors had permission to practice. Osteopathic medicine is now considered as legitimate as traditional allopathic medicine and new DO schools are opening all over the place. </blockquote> <p>As a first year brown med student at an osteopathic school i'd like to point out that we receive an identical education to that of md schools and can practice in every speciality from neurosurgery to pediatrics as well as attending the exact same residencies. (just a clarification, we're fighting the same battle as the mds against midlevels as we are both physicians one and the same).</p> 14 · JGandhi said

11 · razib said
s noted in the USA today article groups like the AMA have a vested interest in doctors not being too plentiful lest the premium on their skills be de-valued.
This is a losing battle. The AMA can restrict all they want but alternative professions and pathways are cropping up. Podiatrists, dentists, optometrists, clinical psychologists, naturopaths, nurses and physician assistants are slowly given more and more leeway to practice medicine that once only MD doctors had permission to practice. Osteopathic medicine is now considered as legitimate as traditional allopathic medicine and new DO schools are opening all over the place.

As a first year brown med student at an osteopathic school i’d like to point out that we receive an identical education to that of md schools and can practice in every speciality from neurosurgery to pediatrics as well as attending the exact same residencies. (just a clarification, we’re fighting the same battle as the mds against midlevels as we are both physicians one and the same).

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By: bess http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/03/16/whats_wrong_wit/comment-page-2/#comment-197271 bess Tue, 18 Mar 2008 21:41:37 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5096#comment-197271 <p>khoofia, are you not doing strength exercises with the parents? out hiking the wilds of cananda with the geese? Oh well, who doesn't love a walrus coo coo kachoo?</p> <p>As for good food on a budget there's nothing like a bit of beans and rice esp. if it's frijoles negros! Leave out the animal fat and bring on the vinegar.</p> <p>Topically, at my local hospital I know for a fact that at orientation everyone is asked to wash their hands and afterwards shown -using a special light- just how dirty their hands still are...mostly around the fingernails. You think you've done enough to wash the things but no, apparently one needs to be vigorous and patient to get the hands clean.</p> khoofia, are you not doing strength exercises with the parents? out hiking the wilds of cananda with the geese? Oh well, who doesn’t love a walrus coo coo kachoo?

As for good food on a budget there’s nothing like a bit of beans and rice esp. if it’s frijoles negros! Leave out the animal fat and bring on the vinegar.

Topically, at my local hospital I know for a fact that at orientation everyone is asked to wash their hands and afterwards shown -using a special light- just how dirty their hands still are…mostly around the fingernails. You think you’ve done enough to wash the things but no, apparently one needs to be vigorous and patient to get the hands clean.

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