Comments on: The Beginning of the End: Groundviews http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/03/03/the_beginning_o/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Exiled http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/03/03/the_beginning_o/comment-page-2/#comment-207134 Exiled Sat, 28 Jun 2008 11:24:50 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5068#comment-207134 <p>It is not true about groundviews not entertaining criticism on the LTTE. Personally, I have commented many times on the atrocities of the LTTE in response to published articles and have also pointed out the whole issue of the diaspora phenomenon. I must say I am also a bit worried about the whole censorship allegations I have been reading about groundviews. it is really sad if this is all true and it undermines the effect of groundviews. I have also had people telling me about submitted content not being included. This is a bit sad, because groundviews sometimes publishes articles of very poor quality i.e. CHA. Despite the fact that it does attempt to carry real stories highlighting the ground situ, the quality of these articles are really not up to the mark. So the question arises whether 'groundviews' is really 'citizen journalism' or a platform for 'popular personalities/ organisations' using this as a propaganda tool. Nevertheless, I must say that 'groundviews' is truly a superb initiative and must strive to uphold their attempts at 'citizen journalism'.</p> <p>People who are interested in reading more about Sri Lanka especially in terms of the whole Diaspora issue should have a look at this blog site, http://sahasamvada-forum.blogspot.com/</p> It is not true about groundviews not entertaining criticism on the LTTE. Personally, I have commented many times on the atrocities of the LTTE in response to published articles and have also pointed out the whole issue of the diaspora phenomenon. I must say I am also a bit worried about the whole censorship allegations I have been reading about groundviews. it is really sad if this is all true and it undermines the effect of groundviews. I have also had people telling me about submitted content not being included. This is a bit sad, because groundviews sometimes publishes articles of very poor quality i.e. CHA. Despite the fact that it does attempt to carry real stories highlighting the ground situ, the quality of these articles are really not up to the mark. So the question arises whether ‘groundviews’ is really ‘citizen journalism’ or a platform for ‘popular personalities/ organisations’ using this as a propaganda tool. Nevertheless, I must say that ‘groundviews’ is truly a superb initiative and must strive to uphold their attempts at ‘citizen journalism’.

People who are interested in reading more about Sri Lanka especially in terms of the whole Diaspora issue should have a look at this blog site, http://sahasamvada-forum.blogspot.com/

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By: Lankapura http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/03/03/the_beginning_o/comment-page-2/#comment-196594 Lankapura Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:27:27 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5068#comment-196594 <p>Amar Chitra Kathas.</p> Amar Chitra Kathas.

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By: ptr_vivek http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/03/03/the_beginning_o/comment-page-2/#comment-196591 ptr_vivek Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:18:43 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5068#comment-196591 <p><i>55 · <b>Lankapura</b> <a href="http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/005068.html#comment196589">said</a></i></p> <blockquote>Whatever the case, like I mentioned earlier, supporting a "range of views and voices" is the last thing that Groundviews does.</blockquote> <p>What do you like to read?</p> 55 · Lankapura said

Whatever the case, like I mentioned earlier, supporting a “range of views and voices” is the last thing that Groundviews does.

What do you like to read?

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By: Lankapura http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/03/03/the_beginning_o/comment-page-2/#comment-196589 Lankapura Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:14:33 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5068#comment-196589 <p>Really Kettikili? Perhaps it's different for you, but for me it sure seems as if V.V. is going gaa gaa over Groundviews in her original post. It's pretty much a promo piece for Groundviews -- without mentioning all the other rather unsavoury bits that people have brought up about the site and its editor in the proceeding comments. What exactly are the "few critical analysis" of Tamil nationalism you're talking about? Wait, are you talking about that solitary "ethnos or demos question" article? The one that is bashed in reply? And exactly how many replies to all the other articles on Groundviews have been published? Heck, even the comments are heavily censored to suit the editorial line. The site certainly does not denounce the LTTE or terrorism half as much as it denounces everything else. Where are the interviews with the Sinhalese civilian whose whole family was blown to bits on a bus bomb? The Muslim civilian who was ethnically cleansed from Jaffna? The Tamil civilian whose father was shot dead because he was considered a "traitor" to the Tamil cause? Or how about life under the LTTE? Not groundviews stuff I suppose? No comment about the fact the only mono-ethnic areas in Sri Lanka are those under the LTTE? I guess according to Groundviews the LTTE is a small, itsy bitsy participant in the conflict that has ravaged the island for the past 20+ years. Funny that. Apparently its the last thing on the minds of Sri Lankans. And sorry to burst your bubble, but I have been following the blog since its onset when it went on an advertising blitzkrieg and Sanjana Hatottuwa was using his column in the Daily Mirror to promote the website. Did I make assumptions about the commentators on Groundviews? Or is it you who has jumped to that assumption? Whatever the case, like I mentioned earlier, supporting a "range of views and voices" is the last thing that Groundviews does.</p> Really Kettikili? Perhaps it’s different for you, but for me it sure seems as if V.V. is going gaa gaa over Groundviews in her original post. It’s pretty much a promo piece for Groundviews — without mentioning all the other rather unsavoury bits that people have brought up about the site and its editor in the proceeding comments. What exactly are the “few critical analysis” of Tamil nationalism you’re talking about? Wait, are you talking about that solitary “ethnos or demos question” article? The one that is bashed in reply? And exactly how many replies to all the other articles on Groundviews have been published? Heck, even the comments are heavily censored to suit the editorial line. The site certainly does not denounce the LTTE or terrorism half as much as it denounces everything else. Where are the interviews with the Sinhalese civilian whose whole family was blown to bits on a bus bomb? The Muslim civilian who was ethnically cleansed from Jaffna? The Tamil civilian whose father was shot dead because he was considered a “traitor” to the Tamil cause? Or how about life under the LTTE? Not groundviews stuff I suppose? No comment about the fact the only mono-ethnic areas in Sri Lanka are those under the LTTE? I guess according to Groundviews the LTTE is a small, itsy bitsy participant in the conflict that has ravaged the island for the past 20+ years. Funny that. Apparently its the last thing on the minds of Sri Lankans. And sorry to burst your bubble, but I have been following the blog since its onset when it went on an advertising blitzkrieg and Sanjana Hatottuwa was using his column in the Daily Mirror to promote the website. Did I make assumptions about the commentators on Groundviews? Or is it you who has jumped to that assumption? Whatever the case, like I mentioned earlier, supporting a “range of views and voices” is the last thing that Groundviews does.

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By: rob http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/03/03/the_beginning_o/comment-page-2/#comment-196573 rob Tue, 11 Mar 2008 05:30:47 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5068#comment-196573 <blockquote>39 · Aut Viam Inveniam Aut Faciam c) Next, the point about: why don't you create your own website? Again, I find this argument to be facile . . . . Groundviews has the funding and infrastructure from a variety of organizations, including CPA which in turn receives money from bilateral and international donor agencies. Groundviews has a responsibility to the citizens of Sri Lanka to use that money appropriately and responsibly. And it takes money, and staff to market, increase outreach, and penetrate the right user base. The concept of creating an alternate, duplicate site would be useful in abundant societies, but not in scarcity-ridden Sri Lanka. </blockquote> <p>How about not a <i>duplicate</i> site, but more of a simple site, like, e.g., "GroundviewsWatch," where you could provide textual commentary on what you feel are Groundviews's omissions/what have you?</p> 39 · Aut Viam Inveniam Aut Faciam c) Next, the point about: why don’t you create your own website? Again, I find this argument to be facile . . . . Groundviews has the funding and infrastructure from a variety of organizations, including CPA which in turn receives money from bilateral and international donor agencies. Groundviews has a responsibility to the citizens of Sri Lanka to use that money appropriately and responsibly. And it takes money, and staff to market, increase outreach, and penetrate the right user base. The concept of creating an alternate, duplicate site would be useful in abundant societies, but not in scarcity-ridden Sri Lanka.

How about not a duplicate site, but more of a simple site, like, e.g., “GroundviewsWatch,” where you could provide textual commentary on what you feel are Groundviews’s omissions/what have you?

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By: kettikili http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/03/03/the_beginning_o/comment-page-2/#comment-196572 kettikili Tue, 11 Mar 2008 05:22:03 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5068#comment-196572 <p>A N N A (#50), I think we'll have to agree to disagree about the function of short vs long comments. After what you've said, I understand where you're coming from, but take issue with the way the policy was initially conveyed. I also generally have a hard time reading and responding to long comments, but I think they can have a place, when the points behind them are intricately connected.</p> <blockquote>:( No one is perfect, but we give this forum everything (what little) we have.</blockquote> <p>And I recognize that. Leaving a couple of comments aside, if SL threads continue in this vein, I'll have to retract my previous statement. :)</p> <p>That would've been my last word in this thread, to let V.V. move on with the business of her follow-up post... but it seems almost criminal to let the following be the final word in a relatively nuanced thread:</p> <blockquote>It's not surprising that quite a few Srilankan Tamils are going gaa gaa over Groundviews seeing as it has absolutely zero criticism of the LTTE or Tamil nationalism, but oodles of it for the Government and Sinhalese nationalism.</blockquote> <p>And now an obvious rationale for <a href="http://www.passtheroti.com/?p=645#comment-211662">AVIAF's reluctance to provide identifying information</a> becomes abundantly clear.</p> <p>Lankapura, first of all, nobody is going "gaa gaa." There are criticisms throughout this thread and elsewhere. Secondly, you've obviously missed the point of Sanjana's comment (#34)-- after linking to a few critical analyses of Tamil nationalism published on Groundviews, he goes on to explain why the site focuses on the government-- it is clear to anyone who can read between the lines that it is a denunciation of LTTE tactics, and the use of those very same tactics by the government (hello, paramilitary proxies). But of course, you aren't reading what is being said. You haven't bothered to step out of your box to think why Tamils who write under their own names scrutinize every word they put out there, and why so many express their positions under pseudonyms. Instead, you're ascribing political positions to the commenters solely on the basis of your <em>assumptions</em> about their identities. So Tamil = Tiger or Tiger supporter.</p> <p>Ironically, the LTTE's political leadership and its most ardent supporters prescribe exactly the same view.</p> <p>Funny that.</p> A N N A (#50), I think we’ll have to agree to disagree about the function of short vs long comments. After what you’ve said, I understand where you’re coming from, but take issue with the way the policy was initially conveyed. I also generally have a hard time reading and responding to long comments, but I think they can have a place, when the points behind them are intricately connected.

:( No one is perfect, but we give this forum everything (what little) we have.

And I recognize that. Leaving a couple of comments aside, if SL threads continue in this vein, I’ll have to retract my previous statement. :)

That would’ve been my last word in this thread, to let V.V. move on with the business of her follow-up post… but it seems almost criminal to let the following be the final word in a relatively nuanced thread:

It’s not surprising that quite a few Srilankan Tamils are going gaa gaa over Groundviews seeing as it has absolutely zero criticism of the LTTE or Tamil nationalism, but oodles of it for the Government and Sinhalese nationalism.

And now an obvious rationale for AVIAF’s reluctance to provide identifying information becomes abundantly clear.

Lankapura, first of all, nobody is going “gaa gaa.” There are criticisms throughout this thread and elsewhere. Secondly, you’ve obviously missed the point of Sanjana’s comment (#34)– after linking to a few critical analyses of Tamil nationalism published on Groundviews, he goes on to explain why the site focuses on the government– it is clear to anyone who can read between the lines that it is a denunciation of LTTE tactics, and the use of those very same tactics by the government (hello, paramilitary proxies). But of course, you aren’t reading what is being said. You haven’t bothered to step out of your box to think why Tamils who write under their own names scrutinize every word they put out there, and why so many express their positions under pseudonyms. Instead, you’re ascribing political positions to the commenters solely on the basis of your assumptions about their identities. So Tamil = Tiger or Tiger supporter.

Ironically, the LTTE’s political leadership and its most ardent supporters prescribe exactly the same view.

Funny that.

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By: Lankapura http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/03/03/the_beginning_o/comment-page-2/#comment-196431 Lankapura Sun, 09 Mar 2008 21:40:34 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5068#comment-196431 <p>It's not surprising that quite a few Srilankan Tamils are going gaa gaa over Groundviews seeing as it has absolutely zero criticism of the LTTE or Tamil nationalism, but oodles of it for the Government and Sinhalese nationalism. It's getting harder and harder these days to justify suicide bombings (including those carried out by pregnant women as they are in Sri Lanka), child soldiers, bombs on buses, extortion, and intra-ethnic Tamil-on-Tamil violence. So Groundviews comes as a welcome respite to those who wish to whitewash the Tamil Tigers and rail against the Evil Genocidal Government (incidentally the LTTE prohibited the Tamil populace under its control from voting in the last elections - no hand wringing by Groundviews on that issue surprise surprise).</p> <p>Citizen journalism? Please. It's run by a member of the Centre For Policy Alternatives; supporting a "range of views and voices" is the last thing it does. If Groundviews is representative of ordinary Sri Lankan citizens they would have already voted in an uber-liberal-colombo-elite government, granted Tamil Eelam on a platter and be toasting the LTTE by drinking arrack and dancing to loud baila music.</p> It’s not surprising that quite a few Srilankan Tamils are going gaa gaa over Groundviews seeing as it has absolutely zero criticism of the LTTE or Tamil nationalism, but oodles of it for the Government and Sinhalese nationalism. It’s getting harder and harder these days to justify suicide bombings (including those carried out by pregnant women as they are in Sri Lanka), child soldiers, bombs on buses, extortion, and intra-ethnic Tamil-on-Tamil violence. So Groundviews comes as a welcome respite to those who wish to whitewash the Tamil Tigers and rail against the Evil Genocidal Government (incidentally the LTTE prohibited the Tamil populace under its control from voting in the last elections – no hand wringing by Groundviews on that issue surprise surprise).

Citizen journalism? Please. It’s run by a member of the Centre For Policy Alternatives; supporting a “range of views and voices” is the last thing it does. If Groundviews is representative of ordinary Sri Lankan citizens they would have already voted in an uber-liberal-colombo-elite government, granted Tamil Eelam on a platter and be toasting the LTTE by drinking arrack and dancing to loud baila music.

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By: V.V. Ganeshananthan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/03/03/the_beginning_o/comment-page-2/#comment-196405 V.V. Ganeshananthan Sat, 08 Mar 2008 21:42:10 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5068#comment-196405 <p>K, I don't consider myself maligned, and I appreciate your lengthy response. (As you know, since my lengthier response went to your inbox.) I hope it's obvious why I'm trying (failing?) to move on to another post. But before I do: AVIAF, retorts, ptr_vivek, rob, kageru, whoever... I hope you will debate and discuss, and I will do my best to respond without being defensive. This is of course extremely personal and not personal at all... the touchiest kind of debate.</p> <p>I'm not a particular authority and am happy to hear from those with different opinions. Nor do I mean to suggest that Groundviews is above criticism: like any editorial product, of course it has its flaws. But my aims include giving them what credit I think they're due--and steering criticisms towards things that are actually <i>actionable</i>, like K's suggestion of an acknowledgment of awareness of limitations. My preference is for the pragmatic rather than the abstract, and that's the first good suggestion I've seen. I find her idea actually very interesting and wonder how specifically it might be implemented. Where on the site would it go? What language might it use?</p> <p>AVIAF, I wasn't trying to attack you by asking about your identity... I merely wished to point out that anonymity doesn't necessarily protect you from people ascribing guesses to you. It's more of that damned if you do, damned if you don't business. Ah, Sri Lanka... Anyway, orneriness might be your style, but it's not mine, so thank-you-come-again... seriously.</p> K, I don’t consider myself maligned, and I appreciate your lengthy response. (As you know, since my lengthier response went to your inbox.) I hope it’s obvious why I’m trying (failing?) to move on to another post. But before I do: AVIAF, retorts, ptr_vivek, rob, kageru, whoever… I hope you will debate and discuss, and I will do my best to respond without being defensive. This is of course extremely personal and not personal at all… the touchiest kind of debate.

I’m not a particular authority and am happy to hear from those with different opinions. Nor do I mean to suggest that Groundviews is above criticism: like any editorial product, of course it has its flaws. But my aims include giving them what credit I think they’re due–and steering criticisms towards things that are actually actionable, like K’s suggestion of an acknowledgment of awareness of limitations. My preference is for the pragmatic rather than the abstract, and that’s the first good suggestion I’ve seen. I find her idea actually very interesting and wonder how specifically it might be implemented. Where on the site would it go? What language might it use?

AVIAF, I wasn’t trying to attack you by asking about your identity… I merely wished to point out that anonymity doesn’t necessarily protect you from people ascribing guesses to you. It’s more of that damned if you do, damned if you don’t business. Ah, Sri Lanka… Anyway, orneriness might be your style, but it’s not mine, so thank-you-come-again… seriously.

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By: A N N A http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/03/03/the_beginning_o/comment-page-1/#comment-196379 A N N A Sat, 08 Mar 2008 01:46:50 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5068#comment-196379 <p><i>49 · <b><a href="http://www.passtheroti.com" rel="nofollow">kettikili</a></b> <a href="http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/005068.html#comment196372">said</a></i></p> <blockquote>Damned if you do, damned if you don't...And I especially didn't want to malign my friend, who was the original writer of that post. She's an amazing person, and one of the few people who (IMHO) <b>has said anything sane</b> on the subject <b>in that forum.</b></blockquote> <p>Huh. That's how I feel about my imperfect but well-intentioned attempts to post about Sri Lanka-- (very) damned if I do, (a little less) damned if I don't. :\</p> <blockquote>Why is one lengthy comment (that tries to think through the issues at hand) seen to bury discussion, while 100 silly comments are not?</blockquote> <p>But why isn't that sort of thoughtful mega-comment more appropriate as a post? Why is that such a terrible idea? I think that if AVIAF started a blog, they'd immediately have an audience, just based on the feedback on this thread. It's not a question of burying a discussion or a preference for death by a thousand comments, it's the pursuit of manageable comment threads; it really is difficult to read super-long comments on tiny screens. It's hard to refute or discuss specific points, when they are buried among two-dozen other contentions...unless you write a mega-comment of your own...and that just exacerbates the situation.</p> <p>I didn't come up with the rule, but I understand it and I try to follow it myself. I'm sorry that you find it arbitrary or stupid.</p> <blockquote>This is my basic problem with the way the forum is run.</blockquote> <p>:( No one is perfect, but we give this forum everything (what little) we have.</p> <blockquote>If something is important to me, and I'm trying to work through it, soundbites don't suffice.</blockquote> <p>I agree, completely. But how does discouraging long comments automatically equal "only soundbites" are allowed? Where's the middle path? All we ask for is comments of a reasonable length. Is that evil of us?</p> 49 · kettikili said

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t…And I especially didn’t want to malign my friend, who was the original writer of that post. She’s an amazing person, and one of the few people who (IMHO) has said anything sane on the subject in that forum.

Huh. That’s how I feel about my imperfect but well-intentioned attempts to post about Sri Lanka– (very) damned if I do, (a little less) damned if I don’t. :\

Why is one lengthy comment (that tries to think through the issues at hand) seen to bury discussion, while 100 silly comments are not?

But why isn’t that sort of thoughtful mega-comment more appropriate as a post? Why is that such a terrible idea? I think that if AVIAF started a blog, they’d immediately have an audience, just based on the feedback on this thread. It’s not a question of burying a discussion or a preference for death by a thousand comments, it’s the pursuit of manageable comment threads; it really is difficult to read super-long comments on tiny screens. It’s hard to refute or discuss specific points, when they are buried among two-dozen other contentions…unless you write a mega-comment of your own…and that just exacerbates the situation.

I didn’t come up with the rule, but I understand it and I try to follow it myself. I’m sorry that you find it arbitrary or stupid.

This is my basic problem with the way the forum is run.

:( No one is perfect, but we give this forum everything (what little) we have.

If something is important to me, and I’m trying to work through it, soundbites don’t suffice.

I agree, completely. But how does discouraging long comments automatically equal “only soundbites” are allowed? Where’s the middle path? All we ask for is comments of a reasonable length. Is that evil of us?

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By: kettikili http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/03/03/the_beginning_o/comment-page-1/#comment-196372 kettikili Sat, 08 Mar 2008 00:10:20 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5068#comment-196372 <p>Pondatti, my snark may seem unwarranted, and if that's all you see to that post, I'm sorry, because that wasn't the point. I do find SM Intern's complaint (#40, 42, 45) to be ridiculous, and if you care to see an explanation, <a href="http://www.passtheroti.com/?p=645#comment-211660">I've replied in a comment to "layman,"</a> which I'm cutting-and-pasting here:</p> <blockquote>Didn't mean for this entire post to come across as petty-- if anything, it was venting some frustrations I have about South Asian blogging on Sri Lanka. (A lot of those unassigned frustrations actually apply to this blog too. Maybe even especially so.) I meant to link to the Sepia Mutiny thread right off the bat, but why I didn't name them is, well, I actually thought <i>that</i> might come off the wrong way. (Damned if you do, damned if you don't, but now that I look at it again, I am more inclined to see what you said.) And I especially didn't want to malign my friend, who was the original writer of that post. She's an amazing person, and one of the few people who (IMHO) has said anything sane on the subject in that forum. You are right insofar as my snark about comment length was directed towards <a href="http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/005068.html#comment196274">SM Intern's response to AVIAF</a>. I understand the point in not posting a lengthy comment if the writer wants it to be read-- just as this post isn't likely to find too many readers. But the idea that a comment that tries to respond to another comment should follow some unspecified rule of length, to me, is ridiculous-- and I don't buy the rationale behind it. Why is one lengthy comment (that tries to think through the issues at hand) seen to bury discussion, while 100 silly comments are not? This is my basic problem with the way the forum is run. If something is important to me, and I'm trying to work through it, soundbites don't suffice. Sorry if that rubs the wrong way.</blockquote> <p>There you have it. I've said my piece, as I wanted it said, and it works for me.</p> Pondatti, my snark may seem unwarranted, and if that’s all you see to that post, I’m sorry, because that wasn’t the point. I do find SM Intern’s complaint (#40, 42, 45) to be ridiculous, and if you care to see an explanation, I’ve replied in a comment to “layman,” which I’m cutting-and-pasting here:

Didn’t mean for this entire post to come across as petty– if anything, it was venting some frustrations I have about South Asian blogging on Sri Lanka. (A lot of those unassigned frustrations actually apply to this blog too. Maybe even especially so.) I meant to link to the Sepia Mutiny thread right off the bat, but why I didn’t name them is, well, I actually thought that might come off the wrong way. (Damned if you do, damned if you don’t, but now that I look at it again, I am more inclined to see what you said.) And I especially didn’t want to malign my friend, who was the original writer of that post. She’s an amazing person, and one of the few people who (IMHO) has said anything sane on the subject in that forum. You are right insofar as my snark about comment length was directed towards SM Intern’s response to AVIAF. I understand the point in not posting a lengthy comment if the writer wants it to be read– just as this post isn’t likely to find too many readers. But the idea that a comment that tries to respond to another comment should follow some unspecified rule of length, to me, is ridiculous– and I don’t buy the rationale behind it. Why is one lengthy comment (that tries to think through the issues at hand) seen to bury discussion, while 100 silly comments are not? This is my basic problem with the way the forum is run. If something is important to me, and I’m trying to work through it, soundbites don’t suffice. Sorry if that rubs the wrong way.

There you have it. I’ve said my piece, as I wanted it said, and it works for me.

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