Comments on: Indian Literature: Translation Stories http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/02/15/indian_literatu_1/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: juzep http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/02/15/indian_literatu_1/comment-page-1/#comment-225494 juzep Thu, 18 Dec 2008 07:50:18 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5033#comment-225494 <p>can you give me a reaction about the indian literature..thank you</p> can you give me a reaction about the indian literature..thank you

]]> By: Likhari http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/02/15/indian_literatu_1/comment-page-1/#comment-195838 Likhari Tue, 04 Mar 2008 13:50:00 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5033#comment-195838 <p>The British Punjabi writer Roop Dhillon wrote Bharind simultaneuosly in English and Punjabi. Neither was an exact word for word rendering. Yest the meaninsg were the same. When asked, he responded that the spirit was more important, as emotional context could otherwise get lost in a literal translation. For example in Neela Noor ਨੀਲਾ ਨੂਰ He said Dusray dee thali vich ladoo sonhnaa lagda, but ranslated it in English as Grass is greener on the other side.</p> The British Punjabi writer Roop Dhillon wrote Bharind simultaneuosly in English and Punjabi. Neither was an exact word for word rendering. Yest the meaninsg were the same. When asked, he responded that the spirit was more important, as emotional context could otherwise get lost in a literal translation. For example in Neela Noor ਨੀਲਾ ਨੂਰ He said Dusray dee thali vich ladoo sonhnaa lagda, but ranslated it in English as Grass is greener on the other side.

]]> By: ptr_vivek http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/02/15/indian_literatu_1/comment-page-1/#comment-194000 ptr_vivek Sun, 17 Feb 2008 04:30:28 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5033#comment-194000 <p>dabak = onomatopoeia</p> <p>like thideer, or both.</p> dabak = onomatopoeia

like thideer, or both.

]]> By: Ponniyin Selvan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/02/15/indian_literatu_1/comment-page-1/#comment-193961 Ponniyin Selvan Sat, 16 Feb 2008 15:52:58 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5033#comment-193961 <p>Meaningless words are used to represent sounds (I think in many languages). There is even a grammatical term in Tamil called "irattai kilavi" if two meaningless words are used in succession, like "sala-sala", "vazha-vazha" to qualify something. kinda like an adjective in association but cannot survive as a single word.</p> Meaningless words are used to represent sounds (I think in many languages). There is even a grammatical term in Tamil called “irattai kilavi” if two meaningless words are used in succession, like “sala-sala”, “vazha-vazha” to qualify something. kinda like an adjective in association but cannot survive as a single word.

]]> By: brownelf http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/02/15/indian_literatu_1/comment-page-1/#comment-193960 brownelf Sat, 16 Feb 2008 15:05:52 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5033#comment-193960 <p>Even without reading the original passage (which I wouldn't be able to do -- I speak fluent Tamil but cannot read or write), I can tell it's been translated beautifully. It reads like excellent storytelling in its own right. "Dabak" is a word that features very prominently in an anecdote my own family likes to tell, about a relative who came to the house and slipped on a puddle of rice-water outside the window through which they used to drain the rice. "DaBAKunnu vizhunthaan!" Just like Girija (#3) said, except we pronounce "fell" a bit differently.</p> <p>But I'm rambling -- thanks, Amardeep, for a great post and for the link to The Literary Saloon, which I hadn't heard of.</p> Even without reading the original passage (which I wouldn’t be able to do — I speak fluent Tamil but cannot read or write), I can tell it’s been translated beautifully. It reads like excellent storytelling in its own right. “Dabak” is a word that features very prominently in an anecdote my own family likes to tell, about a relative who came to the house and slipped on a puddle of rice-water outside the window through which they used to drain the rice. “DaBAKunnu vizhunthaan!” Just like Girija (#3) said, except we pronounce “fell” a bit differently.

But I’m rambling — thanks, Amardeep, for a great post and for the link to The Literary Saloon, which I hadn’t heard of.

]]> By: Ponniyin Selvan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/02/15/indian_literatu_1/comment-page-1/#comment-193959 Ponniyin Selvan Sat, 16 Feb 2008 14:14:57 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5033#comment-193959 <blockquote>I know a reasonable amount of Tamil—albeit a Sri Lankan dialect—and I don't recall having ever heard the word dabak.</blockquote> <p>'dabak' is not a meaningful tamil word, but used to represent the "sound" like the other preceding words ( "ooomm-oosh" are not meaningful English words either)</p> I know a reasonable amount of Tamil—albeit a Sri Lankan dialect—and I don’t recall having ever heard the word dabak.

‘dabak’ is not a meaningful tamil word, but used to represent the “sound” like the other preceding words ( “ooomm-oosh” are not meaningful English words either)

]]> By: Deep http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/02/15/indian_literatu_1/comment-page-1/#comment-193956 Deep Sat, 16 Feb 2008 08:09:34 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5033#comment-193956 <p>In translations, I find ideas more frankly represented than the voice itself, which I am aware has mutated. These thoughts I wonder now and again, be the text translations of Sebald, Levi, Grass, Gilde, Goscinny and Uderzo, or even Pamuk. I have read pieces by O.V. Vijayan, translated into English from Malayalam by the author himself, if I remember right, and I could tell the man had done his all to squeeze the Malayaleeness out of the English he toyed with. But even I could tell it wasn't the same. I came away impressed with his ideas, no less daring than a Marquez or a Kafka. I did not expect him to reinvent the language he was using to translate his own work, even though I hoped it could be done to aid me in understanding his Malayalee voice better (in English).</p> <p>Surya's attempt to duplicate the pre-betel high before post-betel high I would label fair, even though I haven't read the Tamil draft (I could be wrong). I think she may have reigned in the soul of the deed quite well, but the writer's voice (I believe), albeit cloned by the translator, has died a certain death in the translation. What we are reading is as much her voice is it is the writer's -- so does she deserve as much credit? It isn't her fault. There probably isn't a satisfactory answer. But an attempt was probably made to have some fun with English instead of forcefeeding it Tamil. A translated text is always going to be a mutant, but in which voice this mutant speaks when I read it is what I am most interested in.</p> <p>Aside: If I sort of understand the translated text in its original tongue (not as read, but more as spoken), I am more inclined to play the academic, after kicking myself in the ass for not paying more attention when Urdu, Hindi, Malayalam, Tamil, and Arabic was spoken around me (Let us not forget the French lessons). When it's a tongue I barely came in contact with, I have no choice but to trust the translator, and so I do.</p> In translations, I find ideas more frankly represented than the voice itself, which I am aware has mutated. These thoughts I wonder now and again, be the text translations of Sebald, Levi, Grass, Gilde, Goscinny and Uderzo, or even Pamuk. I have read pieces by O.V. Vijayan, translated into English from Malayalam by the author himself, if I remember right, and I could tell the man had done his all to squeeze the Malayaleeness out of the English he toyed with. But even I could tell it wasn’t the same. I came away impressed with his ideas, no less daring than a Marquez or a Kafka. I did not expect him to reinvent the language he was using to translate his own work, even though I hoped it could be done to aid me in understanding his Malayalee voice better (in English).

Surya’s attempt to duplicate the pre-betel high before post-betel high I would label fair, even though I haven’t read the Tamil draft (I could be wrong). I think she may have reigned in the soul of the deed quite well, but the writer’s voice (I believe), albeit cloned by the translator, has died a certain death in the translation. What we are reading is as much her voice is it is the writer’s — so does she deserve as much credit? It isn’t her fault. There probably isn’t a satisfactory answer. But an attempt was probably made to have some fun with English instead of forcefeeding it Tamil. A translated text is always going to be a mutant, but in which voice this mutant speaks when I read it is what I am most interested in.

Aside: If I sort of understand the translated text in its original tongue (not as read, but more as spoken), I am more inclined to play the academic, after kicking myself in the ass for not paying more attention when Urdu, Hindi, Malayalam, Tamil, and Arabic was spoken around me (Let us not forget the French lessons). When it’s a tongue I barely came in contact with, I have no choice but to trust the translator, and so I do.

]]> By: V.V. Ganeshananthan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/02/15/indian_literatu_1/comment-page-1/#comment-193953 V.V. Ganeshananthan Sat, 16 Feb 2008 05:55:11 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5033#comment-193953 <p>I know a reasonable amount of Tamil—albeit a Sri Lankan dialect—and I don't recall having ever heard the word <i>dabak</i>. But I totally agree that what is necessary is evident from context. Much was made of Vikram Chandra's use, in <i>Sacred Games</i>, of loads of Hindi, some of it slang. But this technique—just putting the words in, no explanations required—has been in use for some time. This is how most people acquire most of their vocabulary in any language, anyway—from context. Hearing it, reading it...</p> <p>Agreed also: You can see the difference between a good translation and a tedious one in plenty of languages. Look at the English translations of the Russians! A bad translation is really the kiss of death, as the books tend to be so long...</p> I know a reasonable amount of Tamil—albeit a Sri Lankan dialect—and I don’t recall having ever heard the word dabak. But I totally agree that what is necessary is evident from context. Much was made of Vikram Chandra’s use, in Sacred Games, of loads of Hindi, some of it slang. But this technique—just putting the words in, no explanations required—has been in use for some time. This is how most people acquire most of their vocabulary in any language, anyway—from context. Hearing it, reading it…

Agreed also: You can see the difference between a good translation and a tedious one in plenty of languages. Look at the English translations of the Russians! A bad translation is really the kiss of death, as the books tend to be so long…

]]> By: Ponniyin Selvan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/02/15/indian_literatu_1/comment-page-1/#comment-193946 Ponniyin Selvan Sat, 16 Feb 2008 04:10:34 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5033#comment-193946 <blockquote>Much of the article rehearses the trend we might expect -- Hindi literature is in trouble because of the growing emphasis on English in Indian cities. On the other hand, things look quite different once you get out of the big metros, so perhaps the situation isn't really that dire:</blockquote> <p>I won't be as optimistic at least for "Tamil literature".</p> <blockquote>The translator throws her voice so skilfully that the truth of a text originally written in an Indian language is “heard” in English. Here is Vasantha Surya translating the Tamil writer Ki Rajanarayanan: “Taking out the betel leaves one by one as if he were taking things out of a pooja box, he would lay them out with the devotion due to objects of worship. . . Next he would sniff the broken areca nut. Then he would blow on it. This sniffing and blowing procedure was repeated several times, his hand transporting the areca nut from nose to mouth, nose to mouth, more and more rapidly until ooomm-oosh, ooomm-oosh, ooomm-oosh, dabak! Into his mouth the areca nut would go, having been noisily purified.” Which Indian — educated in English, unable to read his mother tongue or born of a mother other than Tamil — will not thrill to such a retelling?</blockquote> <p>I have read "Ki Rajanarayanan"'s "karisal kaattu kathaigal", bunch of lovely short stories woven around the region called "karisal" , a few districts of southern Tamilnadu. It's good that some one is making an effort to translate "Ki Rajanarayanan". I think there are similar writers in other Indian languages and it is nice to know about this. Thanks.</p> Much of the article rehearses the trend we might expect — Hindi literature is in trouble because of the growing emphasis on English in Indian cities. On the other hand, things look quite different once you get out of the big metros, so perhaps the situation isn’t really that dire:

I won’t be as optimistic at least for “Tamil literature”.

The translator throws her voice so skilfully that the truth of a text originally written in an Indian language is “heard” in English. Here is Vasantha Surya translating the Tamil writer Ki Rajanarayanan: “Taking out the betel leaves one by one as if he were taking things out of a pooja box, he would lay them out with the devotion due to objects of worship. . . Next he would sniff the broken areca nut. Then he would blow on it. This sniffing and blowing procedure was repeated several times, his hand transporting the areca nut from nose to mouth, nose to mouth, more and more rapidly until ooomm-oosh, ooomm-oosh, ooomm-oosh, dabak! Into his mouth the areca nut would go, having been noisily purified.” Which Indian — educated in English, unable to read his mother tongue or born of a mother other than Tamil — will not thrill to such a retelling?

I have read “Ki Rajanarayanan”‘s “karisal kaattu kathaigal”, bunch of lovely short stories woven around the region called “karisal” , a few districts of southern Tamilnadu. It’s good that some one is making an effort to translate “Ki Rajanarayanan”. I think there are similar writers in other Indian languages and it is nice to know about this. Thanks.

]]> By: Sharmishtha http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/02/15/indian_literatu_1/comment-page-1/#comment-193942 Sharmishtha Sat, 16 Feb 2008 03:29:02 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5033#comment-193942 <p>I wonder what is up with Katha, the literature project that translates regional language works into English (and vice versa?). It used to be fairly well-known, but then I haven't been following its fortunes recently.</p> I wonder what is up with Katha, the literature project that translates regional language works into English (and vice versa?). It used to be fairly well-known, but then I haven’t been following its fortunes recently.

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