Comments on: Saffron Servitude and Kipling’s Unbearable Burden http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/02/05/saffron_servitu/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Zachary Latif http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/02/05/saffron_servitu/comment-page-1/#comment-277663 Zachary Latif Sat, 21 Aug 2010 15:15:05 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5008#comment-277663 <p>Great optimistic article, which was linked earlier. Moving up in Mumbai btw.http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB119524399469296009.html</p> <p>Its really sad that pan-South Asian cooperation seems so low; I'm not only mentioned Indo-Pak relations but just generally. I like the Gujral doctrine; thinks its a great way forward.</p> Great optimistic article, which was linked earlier. Moving up in Mumbai btw.http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB119524399469296009.html

Its really sad that pan-South Asian cooperation seems so low; I’m not only mentioned Indo-Pak relations but just generally. I like the Gujral doctrine; thinks its a great way forward.

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By: Zachary Latif http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/02/05/saffron_servitu/comment-page-1/#comment-277662 Zachary Latif Sat, 21 Aug 2010 15:12:33 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5008#comment-277662 <p>Great article and commentary; I think the article was honest though I can see the opposing point of view.</p> <p>Perhaps reform of servitude rather than outright (and impractical abolishment). I remember the practice of child servants in Islamabad. To be fair our chattering classes were more enlightened, they wouldn't hire them, but it was the middle classes who did.</p> <p>It has to be a shift in attitude; domestic help is a great boon but perhaps training and apprenticeships is what's needed. A nudge in the right direction, I remember that the idea of an "Academy for Servants", which would increase their market value.</p> <p>Like most things in South Asia; I think reform is going to be the way forward not drastic changes (which our collective inefficient govts. can't do). We need a strong civil and unified South Asia; chattering classes unite!</p> Great article and commentary; I think the article was honest though I can see the opposing point of view.

Perhaps reform of servitude rather than outright (and impractical abolishment). I remember the practice of child servants in Islamabad. To be fair our chattering classes were more enlightened, they wouldn’t hire them, but it was the middle classes who did.

It has to be a shift in attitude; domestic help is a great boon but perhaps training and apprenticeships is what’s needed. A nudge in the right direction, I remember that the idea of an “Academy for Servants”, which would increase their market value.

Like most things in South Asia; I think reform is going to be the way forward not drastic changes (which our collective inefficient govts. can’t do). We need a strong civil and unified South Asia; chattering classes unite!

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By: narayan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/02/05/saffron_servitu/comment-page-1/#comment-192847 narayan Fri, 08 Feb 2008 22:08:22 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5008#comment-192847 <p>Nayagan : My apologies for this quibble ... (from the Mac on-line dictionary)</p> <p>litany |ˈlitn-Ä“| noun ( pl. -nies) a series of petitions for use in church services or processions, usually recited by the clergy and responded to in a recurring formula by the people. • a tedious recital or repetitive series : a litany of complaints. ORIGIN Middle English : from Old French letanie, via ecclesiastical Latin from Greek litaneia ‘prayer,’ from litÄ“ ‘supplication.’</p> Nayagan : My apologies for this quibble … (from the Mac on-line dictionary)

litany |ˈlitn-ē| noun ( pl. -nies) a series of petitions for use in church services or processions, usually recited by the clergy and responded to in a recurring formula by the people. • a tedious recital or repetitive series : a litany of complaints. ORIGIN Middle English : from Old French letanie, via ecclesiastical Latin from Greek litaneia ‘prayer,’ from litē ‘supplication.’

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By: SM Intern http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/02/05/saffron_servitu/comment-page-1/#comment-192755 SM Intern Thu, 07 Feb 2008 23:41:14 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5008#comment-192755 <p><b>Mai-Baap</b></p> <p>PG,</p> <p>do not attempt to spam this thread. I will be watching.</p> Mai-Baap

PG,

do not attempt to spam this thread. I will be watching.

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By: Mai-Baap http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/02/05/saffron_servitu/comment-page-1/#comment-192738 Mai-Baap Thu, 07 Feb 2008 22:18:35 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5008#comment-192738 <p>How about a white woman's burden?</p> <p>I feel a strong solidarity with women everywhere, and a deep concern for women's issues, wherever I go.</p> <p>Do we have to check out humanity in at customs once we land at Indira Gandhi International airport?</p> <p>Unless the whole world, regardless of gender, color or nationality, decides to do something to HELP each other, guess what is going to happen?</p> <p>More of <a href="http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23162752-601,00.html">this</a></p> How about a white woman’s burden?

I feel a strong solidarity with women everywhere, and a deep concern for women’s issues, wherever I go.

Do we have to check out humanity in at customs once we land at Indira Gandhi International airport?

Unless the whole world, regardless of gender, color or nationality, decides to do something to HELP each other, guess what is going to happen?

More of this

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By: bidi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/02/05/saffron_servitu/comment-page-1/#comment-192737 bidi Thu, 07 Feb 2008 22:17:45 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5008#comment-192737 <p>I really enjoyed this, as well as your previous, post. To reply to a few comments and not the article specifically, I think it is true a lot of older or first generation Indian individuals, esp those who have immigrated recently and happen to be from a "higher" caste may say things like the author's friends however I have not anecdotally seen it to be common in the 2nd generation or even people my parents age who have learned that America is not a place of caste...although it is a place of class.</p> <p>As far as paying people more, it seems to be on a sliding scale. Everyone has a bai and maybe she is supporting a drunk husband or living in an extended family situation that requires extra financial assistance. Whatever the situation one should pay what they can, but as SP says, lets not pretend we haven't tried to pay as little as possible for products or services elsewhere. I think the most jarring part of the experience is the extreme deference of domestic help to the "client".</p> <p>Lastly, as far as this being a continuing situation leading to patronage, again anecdotally, one side of my family has had the same "driver"/ guy who runs every random errand ever for my entire life. I have never met his wife or kids and to be honest I hope I never do...not within the confines of my family's home because I'd like to assume that his kids will have a better life. That all his work and running of random errands and being treated as just a kid to be told what to do will pay off for the next generation. The majority of the world's wealth is generational, drastic movement in one's lifetime is quite difficult. I'd at least like to see it in two.</p> I really enjoyed this, as well as your previous, post. To reply to a few comments and not the article specifically, I think it is true a lot of older or first generation Indian individuals, esp those who have immigrated recently and happen to be from a “higher” caste may say things like the author’s friends however I have not anecdotally seen it to be common in the 2nd generation or even people my parents age who have learned that America is not a place of caste…although it is a place of class.

As far as paying people more, it seems to be on a sliding scale. Everyone has a bai and maybe she is supporting a drunk husband or living in an extended family situation that requires extra financial assistance. Whatever the situation one should pay what they can, but as SP says, lets not pretend we haven’t tried to pay as little as possible for products or services elsewhere. I think the most jarring part of the experience is the extreme deference of domestic help to the “client”.

Lastly, as far as this being a continuing situation leading to patronage, again anecdotally, one side of my family has had the same “driver”/ guy who runs every random errand ever for my entire life. I have never met his wife or kids and to be honest I hope I never do…not within the confines of my family’s home because I’d like to assume that his kids will have a better life. That all his work and running of random errands and being treated as just a kid to be told what to do will pay off for the next generation. The majority of the world’s wealth is generational, drastic movement in one’s lifetime is quite difficult. I’d at least like to see it in two.

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By: jyotsana http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/02/05/saffron_servitu/comment-page-1/#comment-192666 jyotsana Thu, 07 Feb 2008 06:55:55 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5008#comment-192666 <p>I am not sure if the essay, merely, is up to the science of criticism developed by Frye. Jerry Rao of course is well read. But I am not sure if he thought he penning criticism or drawing comparisons. Kipling as all of us know spoke Hindi fluently all his life, and started speaking in English late in childhood, because as some say, he would simply not reply to anything said in English.</p> I am not sure if the essay, merely, is up to the science of criticism developed by Frye. Jerry Rao of course is well read. But I am not sure if he thought he penning criticism or drawing comparisons. Kipling as all of us know spoke Hindi fluently all his life, and started speaking in English late in childhood, because as some say, he would simply not reply to anything said in English.

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By: SSK http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/02/05/saffron_servitu/comment-page-1/#comment-192562 SSK Thu, 07 Feb 2008 01:56:16 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5008#comment-192562 <p><i>16 · <b>jyotsana</b>Kim can be seen as the retelling of the Krishna legend.</b></i></a> </blockquote> Hah, interesting comment. Northrop Frye would be proud.</p> 16 · jyotsanaKim can be seen as the retelling of the Krishna legend. Hah, interesting comment. Northrop Frye would be proud.

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By: jyotsana http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/02/05/saffron_servitu/comment-page-1/#comment-192515 jyotsana Wed, 06 Feb 2008 20:02:54 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5008#comment-192515 <p>A very different perspective <a href="http://preview.tinyurl.com/yvkepg">on Kipling from Jerry Rao. <i><b>Whether he acknowledged it fully or not, Kipling was a child of India and his writings are literally drenched with India. Kim can be seen as the retelling of the Krishna legend.</b></i></a></p> A very different perspective on Kipling from Jerry Rao. Whether he acknowledged it fully or not, Kipling was a child of India and his writings are literally drenched with India. Kim can be seen as the retelling of the Krishna legend.

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By: Amrita http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/02/05/saffron_servitu/comment-page-1/#comment-192514 Amrita Wed, 06 Feb 2008 20:01:28 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=5008#comment-192514 <p>I found it exhausting and irritating to read, so thank you for deconstructing it, Nayagan.</p> I found it exhausting and irritating to read, so thank you for deconstructing it, Nayagan.

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