Comments on: Suspect in Duke Murder Case Arrested http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/01/24/suspect_in_duke_1/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: hoju http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/01/24/suspect_in_duke_1/comment-page-2/#comment-193818 hoju Fri, 15 Feb 2008 05:03:56 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4985#comment-193818 <p>please visit my blog investigating grad student violence. i'm trying to compile a definitive list. any help is much appreciated.</p> <p>http://mr-hoju.blogspot.com/</p> please visit my blog investigating grad student violence. i’m trying to compile a definitive list. any help is much appreciated.

http://mr-hoju.blogspot.com/

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By: HMF http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/01/24/suspect_in_duke_1/comment-page-2/#comment-192821 HMF Fri, 08 Feb 2008 15:59:55 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4985#comment-192821 <p>Somewhat related:</p> <p>http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Student_found_dead_in_Kentucky_house/articleshow/2765590.cms</p> Somewhat related:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Student_found_dead_in_Kentucky_house/articleshow/2765590.cms

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By: the truman show http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/01/24/suspect_in_duke_1/comment-page-2/#comment-191234 the truman show Fri, 25 Jan 2008 20:57:34 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4985#comment-191234 <p>"YOu can argue for cp based on other ethical/moral factors but dont tell me it costs too much to keep them alive." Those aren't my figures, they are from Justice Policy Institute, an org that seems to be quite anti-cp. Since they are projected stats, of course they subject to adjustment. I think a better estimate would be what has already been spent on them. Thousands of perps have spent their last years on earth in jail. Quite honestly, when it comes to the type of criminal we're discussing, I don't care if they live or die as long as they don't get to do any more harm to the rest of us. I think the universe takes care of the rest, but that's the way I handle the sense of injustice. And yes, I think you could argue there are better uses for the money than keeping alive people like: http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/moors/index_1.html. For instance, if environment is responsible for at least some of the crime, then maybe putting kids in a better environment, with people who can guide them. It does take money.</p> “YOu can argue for cp based on other ethical/moral factors but dont tell me it costs too much to keep them alive.” Those aren’t my figures, they are from Justice Policy Institute, an org that seems to be quite anti-cp. Since they are projected stats, of course they subject to adjustment. I think a better estimate would be what has already been spent on them. Thousands of perps have spent their last years on earth in jail. Quite honestly, when it comes to the type of criminal we’re discussing, I don’t care if they live or die as long as they don’t get to do any more harm to the rest of us. I think the universe takes care of the rest, but that’s the way I handle the sense of injustice. And yes, I think you could argue there are better uses for the money than keeping alive people like: http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/moors/index_1.html. For instance, if environment is responsible for at least some of the crime, then maybe putting kids in a better environment, with people who can guide them. It does take money.

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By: melbourne desi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/01/24/suspect_in_duke_1/comment-page-2/#comment-191215 melbourne desi Fri, 25 Jan 2008 19:37:34 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4985#comment-191215 <blockquote>Yes and no, melbournedesi. I hope I don't start an academia-based flame-war,</blockquote> <p>thanks for the clarification. Australia has abolished the death penalty for 40 years but strangely continues to argue for the death penalty for the Bali terrorists ( beats me). I dont think statistics can or should be used in an non-recourse matter like capital punishment. Taking of life is a moral issue - not one easily amenable to statistics. Islamic Justice seems to be more practical in this case.</p> Yes and no, melbournedesi. I hope I don’t start an academia-based flame-war,

thanks for the clarification. Australia has abolished the death penalty for 40 years but strangely continues to argue for the death penalty for the Bali terrorists ( beats me). I dont think statistics can or should be used in an non-recourse matter like capital punishment. Taking of life is a moral issue – not one easily amenable to statistics. Islamic Justice seems to be more practical in this case.

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By: the truman show http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/01/24/suspect_in_duke_1/comment-page-2/#comment-191212 the truman show Fri, 25 Jan 2008 19:15:19 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4985#comment-191212 <p>"I'm sorry if I caused additional distress. I'll look forward to future exchanges, perhaps on topics that don't hit quite as close to home." You didn't cause the distress Camille. The murder of poor Abjihit Mahato caused my distress. I know I need to make myself more clear if I am going to comment however. We all have our touchy buttons. I've been lurking around Sepiamutiny and will continue to. It's one of the blogs that really does rate as debate and conversation and not irrational soundbites.</p> “I’m sorry if I caused additional distress. I’ll look forward to future exchanges, perhaps on topics that don’t hit quite as close to home.” You didn’t cause the distress Camille. The murder of poor Abjihit Mahato caused my distress. I know I need to make myself more clear if I am going to comment however. We all have our touchy buttons. I’ve been lurking around Sepiamutiny and will continue to. It’s one of the blogs that really does rate as debate and conversation and not irrational soundbites.

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By: HMF http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/01/24/suspect_in_duke_1/comment-page-2/#comment-191210 HMF Fri, 25 Jan 2008 19:01:45 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4985#comment-191210 <p><i>If you turn out to be innocent, then the state will be forced to pay you a very good backwages and damages for all the suffering you went through. I am shocked that a few states lack any mechanism to reward wrongly convicted prisoners with megadamages.</i></p> <p>This is actually a good point, there should be some retribution other than "sorry, we messed up" Like remember at the end of the movie Sneakers, where they all ask for free sh*t.</p> If you turn out to be innocent, then the state will be forced to pay you a very good backwages and damages for all the suffering you went through. I am shocked that a few states lack any mechanism to reward wrongly convicted prisoners with megadamages.

This is actually a good point, there should be some retribution other than “sorry, we messed up” Like remember at the end of the movie Sneakers, where they all ask for free sh*t.

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By: non-sequitur http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/01/24/suspect_in_duke_1/comment-page-2/#comment-191207 non-sequitur Fri, 25 Jan 2008 18:05:30 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4985#comment-191207 <blockquote>for non-seq. "According to a study by the Justice Policy Institute, taxpayers spend about $30,000 a year to imprison each person, including medical care. This amount increases with the age of each prisoner. People over the age of 55 cost approximately $50,000 to $75,000 a year to incarcerate. If they sit in prison from the age of about 20 and live a "full life" to 79.5 the cost would be ~$2,535,000. That of course is just an average. Now multiply that buy the number of men/women sitting in prison for life. http://www.justicepolicy.org/</blockquote> <p>Based on your numbers, it costs $2.5 million per person over 60 years (if they start at 20 and are in prison till 79.5 or 80. This is overstating it since all death row inmates dont start at 20 and all do not stay till 80). The cost per year is then $2.5 million/ 60 years or $41,667 per year. There are 3,350 death row inmates in the US as of Jan 2007 (deathpenaltyinfo.com). So the total cost per year to maintain death row inmates is $41,667 per year x 3,350 inmates per year = $140 million. As of Jan 2003 (the best data I could get quickly), there were 131 million americans who filed income taxes. So then cost per taxpayer is $140 million per year / 131 million taxpayers = $1.09 per taxpayer per year. The cost of a value meal at McDonalds.</p> <p>YOu can argue for cp based on other ethical/moral factors but dont tell me it costs too much to keep them alive.</p> for non-seq. “According to a study by the Justice Policy Institute, taxpayers spend about $30,000 a year to imprison each person, including medical care. This amount increases with the age of each prisoner. People over the age of 55 cost approximately $50,000 to $75,000 a year to incarcerate. If they sit in prison from the age of about 20 and live a “full life” to 79.5 the cost would be ~$2,535,000. That of course is just an average. Now multiply that buy the number of men/women sitting in prison for life. http://www.justicepolicy.org/

Based on your numbers, it costs $2.5 million per person over 60 years (if they start at 20 and are in prison till 79.5 or 80. This is overstating it since all death row inmates dont start at 20 and all do not stay till 80). The cost per year is then $2.5 million/ 60 years or $41,667 per year. There are 3,350 death row inmates in the US as of Jan 2007 (deathpenaltyinfo.com). So the total cost per year to maintain death row inmates is $41,667 per year x 3,350 inmates per year = $140 million. As of Jan 2003 (the best data I could get quickly), there were 131 million americans who filed income taxes. So then cost per taxpayer is $140 million per year / 131 million taxpayers = $1.09 per taxpayer per year. The cost of a value meal at McDonalds.

YOu can argue for cp based on other ethical/moral factors but dont tell me it costs too much to keep them alive.

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By: Camille http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/01/24/suspect_in_duke_1/comment-page-2/#comment-191206 Camille Fri, 25 Jan 2008 18:01:09 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4985#comment-191206 <blockquote>No problem Camille--I think you are a lawyer, n'est-ce pas?</blockquote> <p>I'm not -- I'm a political economist :) [similar "logical" argument style, though] Thanks,nonetheless, for your response -- I really do appreciate it. I'm sorry to hear that this is an issue that has affected you so directly, and I'm sorry if I caused additional distress. I'll look forward to future exchanges, perhaps on topics that don't hit quite as close to home.</p> No problem Camille–I think you are a lawyer, n’est-ce pas?

I’m not — I’m a political economist :) [similar "logical" argument style, though] Thanks,nonetheless, for your response — I really do appreciate it. I’m sorry to hear that this is an issue that has affected you so directly, and I’m sorry if I caused additional distress. I’ll look forward to future exchanges, perhaps on topics that don’t hit quite as close to home.

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By: the truman show http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/01/24/suspect_in_duke_1/comment-page-2/#comment-191202 the truman show Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:35:48 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4985#comment-191202 <p>for non-seq. "According to a study by the Justice Policy Institute, taxpayers spend about $30,000 a year to imprison each person, including medical care. This amount increases with the age of each prisoner. People over the age of 55 cost approximately $50,000 to $75,000 a year to incarcerate. If they sit in prison from the age of about 20 and live a "full life" to 79.5 the cost would be ~$2,535,000. That of course is just an average. Now multiply that buy the number of men/women sitting in prison for life. http://www.justicepolicy.org/</p> <p>Now even if the death penalty is imposed, it drags it out for 10-20 years, so what with the legal fees, it probably costs more in the long run than life-imprisonment."</p> <p>Camille. No problem Camille--I think you are a lawyer, n'est-ce pas? I have seen your comments and you do lay your positions out clearly and objectively, though I don't always agree. You are absolutely right about concentrating too much on murder, but let's face it, that's what brings out the cold sweat and attempted murder is something I personally experienced (not as perp). Few of us fret as much over the possibility that some corporate nonentity will steal our 401K. One reason there isn't more murder is because a lot of people arrange their lives around avoiding it. One must not let personal opinions cloud one's judgment and if my kid turned out to be a cold blooded remorseless killer, I'd feel the same justice should apply as to any cold blooded, remorseless killer. In fact if I ever kill anybody in cold blood, I hope they off me quickly. When you ask for stats I can only go so far because frankly looking too much at this subject is upsetting to me and perhaps I should not have engaged in this discussion. I go by what I have read in the past.</p> for non-seq. “According to a study by the Justice Policy Institute, taxpayers spend about $30,000 a year to imprison each person, including medical care. This amount increases with the age of each prisoner. People over the age of 55 cost approximately $50,000 to $75,000 a year to incarcerate. If they sit in prison from the age of about 20 and live a “full life” to 79.5 the cost would be ~$2,535,000. That of course is just an average. Now multiply that buy the number of men/women sitting in prison for life. http://www.justicepolicy.org/

Now even if the death penalty is imposed, it drags it out for 10-20 years, so what with the legal fees, it probably costs more in the long run than life-imprisonment.”

Camille. No problem Camille–I think you are a lawyer, n’est-ce pas? I have seen your comments and you do lay your positions out clearly and objectively, though I don’t always agree. You are absolutely right about concentrating too much on murder, but let’s face it, that’s what brings out the cold sweat and attempted murder is something I personally experienced (not as perp). Few of us fret as much over the possibility that some corporate nonentity will steal our 401K. One reason there isn’t more murder is because a lot of people arrange their lives around avoiding it. One must not let personal opinions cloud one’s judgment and if my kid turned out to be a cold blooded remorseless killer, I’d feel the same justice should apply as to any cold blooded, remorseless killer. In fact if I ever kill anybody in cold blood, I hope they off me quickly. When you ask for stats I can only go so far because frankly looking too much at this subject is upsetting to me and perhaps I should not have engaged in this discussion. I go by what I have read in the past.

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By: non-sequitur http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/01/24/suspect_in_duke_1/comment-page-2/#comment-191201 non-sequitur Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:13:25 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4985#comment-191201 <blockquote>Did you have a specific locality in mind, or the national average?</blockquote> <p>A national average (or national total) for the annual cost of maintenance of death row. I can just divide that by number of taxpayers to get an annual cost per taxpayer. (I am not sure if this is being too simplistic.). So if this is something like a few dollars per tax payer per year, it then removes the perception of undue burden on the taxpayer. Also, I didnt think of the cost of executions as you mentioned. So then I guess a net number would be most effective.</p> <p>(Annual cost of nationwide death row maintenance - cost of executions nationwide) / number of taxpayers.</p> <p>We could then compare this to things like (cost of war in Iraq per year)/number of taxpayers</p> Did you have a specific locality in mind, or the national average?

A national average (or national total) for the annual cost of maintenance of death row. I can just divide that by number of taxpayers to get an annual cost per taxpayer. (I am not sure if this is being too simplistic.). So if this is something like a few dollars per tax payer per year, it then removes the perception of undue burden on the taxpayer. Also, I didnt think of the cost of executions as you mentioned. So then I guess a net number would be most effective.

(Annual cost of nationwide death row maintenance – cost of executions nationwide) / number of taxpayers.

We could then compare this to things like (cost of war in Iraq per year)/number of taxpayers

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