Comments on: Do India’s Stock Market Investors Lack Sophistication? http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/01/24/do_indias_stock/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Riding the Elephant http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/01/24/do_indias_stock/comment-page-1/#comment-219849 Riding the Elephant Thu, 30 Oct 2008 17:00:39 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4986#comment-219849 <p>Hi - I'm the writer of Riding the Elephant and am monoths late replying to this but yes, I was referring to investors in the Indian stock market, mainly but not exclusively from outside the country. Do visit my blog again - it left Fortune.com during some budget cuts in the summer and is now at http://ridingtheelephant.wordpress.com/ best wishes to all my old readers and comment writers - come and visit je</p> Hi – I’m the writer of Riding the Elephant and am monoths late replying to this but yes, I was referring to investors in the Indian stock market, mainly but not exclusively from outside the country. Do visit my blog again – it left Fortune.com during some budget cuts in the summer and is now at http://ridingtheelephant.wordpress.com/ best wishes to all my old readers and comment writers – come and visit je

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By: desiaynrand http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/01/24/do_indias_stock/comment-page-1/#comment-191330 desiaynrand Sat, 26 Jan 2008 03:07:08 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4986#comment-191330 <p>Every market has unsophisticated investors, US, developing countries and frontier markets. Elliot's article seems to imply that significant swings in market indices, despite a sustainable economic growth rate, points to investors being uneducated/unsophisticated. I agree with a previous mutineer's post that valuations are a subjective call and I believe that these swings in the Sensex have everything to do with more involvement by both foreign AND local investors, rather than the level of any one group's sophistication. In my opinion, the Indian market (as well as China, Russia and select other emerging markets) have been overvalued for more than 1 year. I believe that the growth in India is sound but many investors (particularly foreign funds) have not lived through the gut-wrenching corrections in past emerging markets crises and have been drawn into markets they may not be suited to invest by the multi-year strong returns. I think we are going to see more pain in the near term and the market swings will continue. The real education for both investors and journalists will begin then.</p> Every market has unsophisticated investors, US, developing countries and frontier markets. Elliot’s article seems to imply that significant swings in market indices, despite a sustainable economic growth rate, points to investors being uneducated/unsophisticated. I agree with a previous mutineer’s post that valuations are a subjective call and I believe that these swings in the Sensex have everything to do with more involvement by both foreign AND local investors, rather than the level of any one group’s sophistication. In my opinion, the Indian market (as well as China, Russia and select other emerging markets) have been overvalued for more than 1 year. I believe that the growth in India is sound but many investors (particularly foreign funds) have not lived through the gut-wrenching corrections in past emerging markets crises and have been drawn into markets they may not be suited to invest by the multi-year strong returns. I think we are going to see more pain in the near term and the market swings will continue. The real education for both investors and journalists will begin then.

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By: vishal http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/01/24/do_indias_stock/comment-page-1/#comment-191259 vishal Fri, 25 Jan 2008 22:15:59 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4986#comment-191259 <p>Wish John would just stick to music charts like the other <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missy_Elliott">Elliott</a> & not index plotting charts. "Arey Reliance ! paisa dalo !" , "Arey gira ! becho becho !" (We are like this only)</p> Wish John would just stick to music charts like the other Elliott & not index plotting charts. “Arey Reliance ! paisa dalo !” , “Arey gira ! becho becho !” (We are like this only)

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By: my_dog_jagat http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/01/24/do_indias_stock/comment-page-1/#comment-191186 my_dog_jagat Fri, 25 Jan 2008 12:56:21 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4986#comment-191186 <p>Can a <a href="http://www.latimes.com/business/investing/la-fi-frenchscandal25jan25,1,5185728.story">Societe Generale </a> happen in India? Better unsophisticated than a Societe Generale. My investment approach is very unsophisticated and the money in my SG account is still there. Just checked.</p> Can a Societe Generale happen in India? Better unsophisticated than a Societe Generale. My investment approach is very unsophisticated and the money in my SG account is still there. Just checked.

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By: my_dog_jagat http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/01/24/do_indias_stock/comment-page-1/#comment-191184 my_dog_jagat Fri, 25 Jan 2008 11:48:15 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4986#comment-191184 <p>India has unsophisticated lovers-- yes. Indians are unsophisticated in relationships -- yes maybe. And Indians are unsophisticated investors--maybe. But as someone (#15) pointed out, not any more than someone buying Google now.</p> India has unsophisticated lovers– yes. Indians are unsophisticated in relationships — yes maybe. And Indians are unsophisticated investors–maybe. But as someone (#15) pointed out, not any more than someone buying Google now.

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By: notsoyoungdesi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/01/24/do_indias_stock/comment-page-1/#comment-191163 notsoyoungdesi Fri, 25 Jan 2008 04:56:00 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4986#comment-191163 <p>John Elliot's evaluation of the Indian investor based on the events of the past few days is what lacks sophistication.</p> <p>What we witnessed in the Indian market and other markets is the herd instinct in operation. The tendency for investors to follow the herd is not unique to any particular group of investors. What I do not know is the extent to which margin is permitted in transactions in the Indian markets because the use of margin in funding stock purchases can result in forced liquidations if the market/stock valuations fall beyond a certain point creating a margin call.</p> <p>What is also a common thread to all markets which have had a decent bullish run, is that the "unsophisticated" investor makes his/her appearance because he/she has heard stories about the amount of money that friends and associates have been making in the market and decided they would like to partake in the bonanza. These are usually the so-called "weak hands" who are neither able nor willing to withstand losses during a decline and will exit in a hurry when the market turns down.</p> John Elliot’s evaluation of the Indian investor based on the events of the past few days is what lacks sophistication.

What we witnessed in the Indian market and other markets is the herd instinct in operation. The tendency for investors to follow the herd is not unique to any particular group of investors. What I do not know is the extent to which margin is permitted in transactions in the Indian markets because the use of margin in funding stock purchases can result in forced liquidations if the market/stock valuations fall beyond a certain point creating a margin call.

What is also a common thread to all markets which have had a decent bullish run, is that the “unsophisticated” investor makes his/her appearance because he/she has heard stories about the amount of money that friends and associates have been making in the market and decided they would like to partake in the bonanza. These are usually the so-called “weak hands” who are neither able nor willing to withstand losses during a decline and will exit in a hurry when the market turns down.

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By: portmanteau http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/01/24/do_indias_stock/comment-page-1/#comment-191135 portmanteau Fri, 25 Jan 2008 00:29:32 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4986#comment-191135 <p><b>paranoid android</b>, i enjoyed your posts on this thread.</p> <blockquote> Not really. a consultant by the day and an indo-market phile by the night</blockquote> <p>i guess it doesn't tax your <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_the_Paranoid_Android">planet-sized brain</a> to study indian financial markets, but have you <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin%27s_lullaby#About_Marvin">written a</a> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin%27s_lullaby#About_Marvin">lullaby</a> yet?</p> paranoid android, i enjoyed your posts on this thread.

Not really. a consultant by the day and an indo-market phile by the night

i guess it doesn’t tax your planet-sized brain to study indian financial markets, but have you written a lullaby yet?

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By: Manju http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/01/24/do_indias_stock/comment-page-1/#comment-191134 Manju Fri, 25 Jan 2008 00:29:31 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4986#comment-191134 <p>in great contrast to elliot is warren buffet, who tells one of the best stories about unsophisticated or inefficient markets.</p> <p>the first real arb hedge fund was long term capital management, run by a bunch of geniuses, some of whom had nobel prizes. well they where holding similar govt bonds betting that the prices would converge...and in a rational world they had too. but alas, the world is not rational all the time. in 1997 there was an east asian currency crisis that rocked the world markets, causing these bond prices to inexplicitly diverge.</p> <p>Now, LTCM was heavily leveraged, meaning that the longer these securities kept diverging the less collateral they had to maintain their loans. eventually they had to sell to repay their loans and in stepped warren buffet, who had loads of cash from Berkshire Hathaway and could therefore hold onto the arb bet for a much longer time.</p> <p>but bill gates invited him to vaca in Alaska at the time so buffet couldn't negotiate in person. the fed eventually stepped in to arrange a private bailout squashing buffets deal. eventually the prices did converge and ever since buffet says that vaca with gates was his most expensive vacation ever, costing him $3billion.</p> in great contrast to elliot is warren buffet, who tells one of the best stories about unsophisticated or inefficient markets.

the first real arb hedge fund was long term capital management, run by a bunch of geniuses, some of whom had nobel prizes. well they where holding similar govt bonds betting that the prices would converge…and in a rational world they had too. but alas, the world is not rational all the time. in 1997 there was an east asian currency crisis that rocked the world markets, causing these bond prices to inexplicitly diverge.

Now, LTCM was heavily leveraged, meaning that the longer these securities kept diverging the less collateral they had to maintain their loans. eventually they had to sell to repay their loans and in stepped warren buffet, who had loads of cash from Berkshire Hathaway and could therefore hold onto the arb bet for a much longer time.

but bill gates invited him to vaca in Alaska at the time so buffet couldn’t negotiate in person. the fed eventually stepped in to arrange a private bailout squashing buffets deal. eventually the prices did converge and ever since buffet says that vaca with gates was his most expensive vacation ever, costing him $3billion.

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By: Manju http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/01/24/do_indias_stock/comment-page-1/#comment-191133 Manju Fri, 25 Jan 2008 00:11:30 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4986#comment-191133 <p>elliots article smells like BS or Monday morning QBing at the least. first of all, no sophisticated investor complains that the market is unsophisticated, as paranoid android alludes to, but rather exploits the market at that time, which has the effect, if the investor is influential enough, of making the market fairly priced.</p> <p>Elliot labels investors in the Indian market as unsophisticated b/c they drove prices to an irrational level. so when they sold off had they suddenly become sophisticated. No. according tho Elliot the selling in the face of a sound fundamental economy was also unsophisticated.</p> <p>presumably, since its so easy to tellwhen the market's overvalued, he sold or shorted at the top then bought back in or covered after the sell-off. but something tells me he did neither, or else he wouldn't have to work for TWX for a living.</p> elliots article smells like BS or Monday morning QBing at the least. first of all, no sophisticated investor complains that the market is unsophisticated, as paranoid android alludes to, but rather exploits the market at that time, which has the effect, if the investor is influential enough, of making the market fairly priced.

Elliot labels investors in the Indian market as unsophisticated b/c they drove prices to an irrational level. so when they sold off had they suddenly become sophisticated. No. according tho Elliot the selling in the face of a sound fundamental economy was also unsophisticated.

presumably, since its so easy to tellwhen the market’s overvalued, he sold or shorted at the top then bought back in or covered after the sell-off. but something tells me he did neither, or else he wouldn’t have to work for TWX for a living.

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By: Paranoid Android http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/01/24/do_indias_stock/comment-page-1/#comment-191127 Paranoid Android Thu, 24 Jan 2008 23:04:26 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4986#comment-191127 <p><i>Just curious, are you a derivatives trader?</i></p> <p>Not really. a consultant by the day and an indo-market phile by the night (after the opening bell over there). So, i could be talking out of my aRs.e or a$$, depending on which market I am talking about. ;)</p> Just curious, are you a derivatives trader?

Not really. a consultant by the day and an indo-market phile by the night (after the opening bell over there). So, i could be talking out of my aRs.e or a$$, depending on which market I am talking about. ;)

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