Comments on: Benazir Bhutto Assassinated (Updated) http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/12/27/bhutto_killed_i/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: SM Intern http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/12/27/bhutto_killed_i/comment-page-9/#comment-185523 SM Intern Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:39:24 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4925#comment-185523 <p>All right, this thread has meandered enough and is ready to close. We'll have a new post related to the assassination, soon.</p> All right, this thread has meandered enough and is ready to close. We’ll have a new post related to the assassination, soon.

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By: Yogi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/12/27/bhutto_killed_i/comment-page-8/#comment-185522 Yogi Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:27:10 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4925#comment-185522 <blockquote>How can anyone say the Indian army is 'strong' without a test?</blockquote> <p>Well know one knows or can predict the future, we can and do project the future based on past performance. India's past military engagements with Pakistan have not ended well for Pakistan, including the last one in Kargil which brought in its wake Musharraf to power and the one in 1971 which resulted in the formation of Bangladesh.</p> <p>When I said the Indian army was strong, all I meant was strong enough to defend itself from any threat from Pakistan to its sovereignty if the occasion arises, we don't have any reason to believe otherwise I don't think.</p> <p>MM, I do agree with you about India's experience in Sri Lanka. It was an unmitigated disaster. It was a war of choice, and India/Rajiv Gandhi had no business meddling there. He did however pay with his life for that mistake.</p> How can anyone say the Indian army is ‘strong’ without a test?

Well know one knows or can predict the future, we can and do project the future based on past performance. India’s past military engagements with Pakistan have not ended well for Pakistan, including the last one in Kargil which brought in its wake Musharraf to power and the one in 1971 which resulted in the formation of Bangladesh.

When I said the Indian army was strong, all I meant was strong enough to defend itself from any threat from Pakistan to its sovereignty if the occasion arises, we don’t have any reason to believe otherwise I don’t think.

MM, I do agree with you about India’s experience in Sri Lanka. It was an unmitigated disaster. It was a war of choice, and India/Rajiv Gandhi had no business meddling there. He did however pay with his life for that mistake.

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By: Camille http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/12/27/bhutto_killed_i/comment-page-8/#comment-185519 Camille Mon, 31 Dec 2007 18:43:58 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4925#comment-185519 <p>Along with Priya's confusion, <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/31/world/asia/31inquiry.html?hp">the NYT is saying that the autopsy docs felt pressured to repeat the "government story" of her death</a>. I've also linked the article on the news page (hope I'm not spamming).</p> Along with Priya’s confusion, the NYT is saying that the autopsy docs felt pressured to repeat the “government story” of her death. I’ve also linked the article on the news page (hope I’m not spamming).

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By: muralimannered http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/12/27/bhutto_killed_i/comment-page-8/#comment-185517 muralimannered Mon, 31 Dec 2007 18:18:23 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4925#comment-185517 <blockquote>Oh please- Yogi was responding to Boston Mahesh's 'doomsday scenarios' in which India is left in a precarious position and is completely powerless when it comes to defending its national security in wake of possible political crisis in Pakistan. Pointing out that India has a military is a far cry from the 'India Shining' crowd. If anything it's been poor decisions in the past (namely by Congress) that have led to inefficient use of the capable military.</blockquote> <p>nala,</p> <p>barking up the wrong tree here. The IPKF, which is what the comment referred to, could neither defeat the LTTE militarily nor make inroads with the subject population to achieve some sort of 'hearts and minds' victory. They couldn't even keep the peace either, which judging from the second letter of the acronym, was certainly part of their mission. You can certainly argue that tactical decisions were made which limited their effectiveness in either objective, but they didn't get anything done other than earn the eternal enmity of JVP fodder down south and the people they screwed over in the north.</p> <p>besides, they haven't been tested in an all-out conventional war in ages. How can anyone say the Indian army is 'strong' without a test?</p> Oh please- Yogi was responding to Boston Mahesh’s ‘doomsday scenarios’ in which India is left in a precarious position and is completely powerless when it comes to defending its national security in wake of possible political crisis in Pakistan. Pointing out that India has a military is a far cry from the ‘India Shining’ crowd. If anything it’s been poor decisions in the past (namely by Congress) that have led to inefficient use of the capable military.

nala,

barking up the wrong tree here. The IPKF, which is what the comment referred to, could neither defeat the LTTE militarily nor make inroads with the subject population to achieve some sort of ‘hearts and minds’ victory. They couldn’t even keep the peace either, which judging from the second letter of the acronym, was certainly part of their mission. You can certainly argue that tactical decisions were made which limited their effectiveness in either objective, but they didn’t get anything done other than earn the eternal enmity of JVP fodder down south and the people they screwed over in the north.

besides, they haven’t been tested in an all-out conventional war in ages. How can anyone say the Indian army is ‘strong’ without a test?

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By: Jangali Janwar http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/12/27/bhutto_killed_i/comment-page-8/#comment-185516 Jangali Janwar Mon, 31 Dec 2007 18:14:35 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4925#comment-185516 <p>Amitabh,</p> <p>I'm in complete agreement with you. A rational reason other than the government's connivance with the attack is the government's unwillingness to reveal how poor or lax security was at this event. In other words, they didn't want to be shown as incompetent. Therefore, leading to further support to the idea that Musharraf is unable to contain the insurgents within his country. It is a bit of skewed logic to think its better to have her assassination be the result of a blast into a lever rather than having someone shoot her at close range. That's the only thing I can come up with. Once again, if the Pak government did not have anything to do with her death, their lack of transparency post attack does nothing to disprove the conspiracy theorists.</p> Amitabh,

I’m in complete agreement with you. A rational reason other than the government’s connivance with the attack is the government’s unwillingness to reveal how poor or lax security was at this event. In other words, they didn’t want to be shown as incompetent. Therefore, leading to further support to the idea that Musharraf is unable to contain the insurgents within his country. It is a bit of skewed logic to think its better to have her assassination be the result of a blast into a lever rather than having someone shoot her at close range. That’s the only thing I can come up with. Once again, if the Pak government did not have anything to do with her death, their lack of transparency post attack does nothing to disprove the conspiracy theorists.

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By: MoorNam http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/12/27/bhutto_killed_i/comment-page-8/#comment-185515 MoorNam Mon, 31 Dec 2007 18:01:50 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4925#comment-185515 <blockquote> <blockquote> <p><i>Things are getting really weird. More videos from more angles</i></p> </blockquote> </blockquote> <p>Oliver Stone must be working on a script as I type this...<i>It was not one bullet, but two bullets - the second one hit the lamppost, recoiled back to the roof, turned 32 degrees...</i></p> <p><a href="http://www.dailyreckoning.us/blog/?p=660">More on how this event will skew the 2008 US elections in the favor of hawkish candidates</a>...Considering that Madrid bombings influenced the Spanish elections in favor of liberal candidates, such events <u>within </u>the mid-east will bound to have the opposite effect of elections going in favor of hawkish candidates in the US/India/Britain etc. If that hypothesis is indeed true (and OBL benefits from the rest of the world becoming more hawkish), we may see more of this.</p> <p>Globalisation works in strange ways.</p> <p>M. Nam</p>

Things are getting really weird. More videos from more angles

Oliver Stone must be working on a script as I type this…It was not one bullet, but two bullets – the second one hit the lamppost, recoiled back to the roof, turned 32 degrees…

More on how this event will skew the 2008 US elections in the favor of hawkish candidates…Considering that Madrid bombings influenced the Spanish elections in favor of liberal candidates, such events within the mid-east will bound to have the opposite effect of elections going in favor of hawkish candidates in the US/India/Britain etc. If that hypothesis is indeed true (and OBL benefits from the rest of the world becoming more hawkish), we may see more of this.

Globalisation works in strange ways.

M. Nam

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By: Vic http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/12/27/bhutto_killed_i/comment-page-8/#comment-185514 Vic Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:42:51 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4925#comment-185514 <p>Toyota even came out with the statement that it was highly unlikely that the lever could kill someone. Is it me or you want to cringe whenever a Pakistani general opens his mouth to international press... it seems lack of debate in military society makes them feel smarter than they really are.</p> Toyota even came out with the statement that it was highly unlikely that the lever could kill someone. Is it me or you want to cringe whenever a Pakistani general opens his mouth to international press… it seems lack of debate in military society makes them feel smarter than they really are.

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By: Amitabh http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/12/27/bhutto_killed_i/comment-page-8/#comment-185512 Amitabh Mon, 31 Dec 2007 16:45:15 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4925#comment-185512 <p>By trying to cover up the cause of death and lying about what really happened, the government in Islamabad lost all its credibility...regardless of whether they had anything to do with this assassination or not (and possibly they didn't). But if they weren't involved, I see no reason to hide the true manner in which she died or the true causes. Don't make up bullshit about sunroof levers or whatever, that NO ONE believes, and which doesn't even seem plausible or possible. Anyone care to speculate as to why (if they didn't do it) the gov't. would create these fabrications?</p> By trying to cover up the cause of death and lying about what really happened, the government in Islamabad lost all its credibility…regardless of whether they had anything to do with this assassination or not (and possibly they didn’t). But if they weren’t involved, I see no reason to hide the true manner in which she died or the true causes. Don’t make up bullshit about sunroof levers or whatever, that NO ONE believes, and which doesn’t even seem plausible or possible. Anyone care to speculate as to why (if they didn’t do it) the gov’t. would create these fabrications?

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By: Priya http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/12/27/bhutto_killed_i/comment-page-8/#comment-185509 Priya Mon, 31 Dec 2007 16:13:01 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4925#comment-185509 <p>Things are getting really weird. <a href="http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2007/12/30/velshi.bhutto.cause.cnn">More videos </a>from more angles. Who the hell is this creative guy/organization who keeps coming up with these videos. Why not give a citation as to the source of these videos ? Well the govt. has the gun why can't it be traced ? And interestingly <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/12/31/pakistan.autopsy/index.html">autopsy was refused </a>by the police .</p> Things are getting really weird. More videos from more angles. Who the hell is this creative guy/organization who keeps coming up with these videos. Why not give a citation as to the source of these videos ? Well the govt. has the gun why can’t it be traced ? And interestingly autopsy was refused by the police .

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By: Yogi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/12/27/bhutto_killed_i/comment-page-8/#comment-185503 Yogi Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:42:16 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4925#comment-185503 <p>And please before someone else misrepresents what I have said, I hope that the situation in Pakistan sorts itself out and there is no standoff between India and Pakistan, that is the last thing we need now. A strong confident Pakistan not held hostage by its military rulers is in India's best interests too. Unfortunately for both India and Pakistan it still hasn't happened.</p> <p>Hope everyone has a great 2008, happy new year to all.</p> <p>Signing off now.</p> And please before someone else misrepresents what I have said, I hope that the situation in Pakistan sorts itself out and there is no standoff between India and Pakistan, that is the last thing we need now. A strong confident Pakistan not held hostage by its military rulers is in India’s best interests too. Unfortunately for both India and Pakistan it still hasn’t happened.

Hope everyone has a great 2008, happy new year to all.

Signing off now.

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