One theory that can explain the lack of knowledge in history (or even arts) in some of these engineers is the brutally competitive entrance exam system for engineering colleges in India. Most of the aspiring engineers are only concerned about PCM (Phy-Chem-Math). On the similar note not many artsy types in USA (or anywhere else) can solve differential equations

He-he. Some “engineers” in USA can’t solve differential equations either (just biased personal opinion from teaching experience).

Not every one can learn everything and given the constraints on time/effort the emphasis varies. The nature of the engineering education excludes taking any history/arts classes at university level and this isn’t limited to India. I wonder how many engineers are ever history savvy.

Indian schools have to deal with teaching multiple languages (3 minimum, native-national-English, some take 4) in addition to standard math, natural and social sciences. The Indian education system might be lacking in some aspects, but so does any educational system if seen with a different emphasis.

OTOH, I think history is not just limited to schools but it is personal experience from collective memory. What I learned about Indian independence/partition from my grandmother stuck with me better. If a Jewish person was my neighbour perhaps I would understand/care about holocaust too. In my opinion the debate on Hitler awareness in India is like wondering why Japanese might care more about Hiroshima than holocaust.

Without the personal experience, despite “reading” history, Hitler may not appear satanic – only a person with better means to execute genocide (compared to Armenian genocide, Rwandan genocide, and others).

I don’t think Kissinger is in the same league of Hitler’s people. Kissinger is an awful human being.

I don’t know if we’ll get much out of discussing degrees of evil, but I do think it’s important to remember that we ALL have the potential to dehumanize and brutalize “the other.” (The Stanford Prison Experiment, The Milgram Experiment, The Banality of Evil.) I think that when we deny this potential within ourselves and declare ourselves unequivocally better than “those evildoers,” we are that much closer to becoming like “them.”

Nala, I would recommend Howard Zinn’s A People’s History of the United States. I’ve also heard that this is a pretty good, comprehensive book, but I haven’t read it myself.

Finally, I want to reiterate that Abhi’s cricket bat doesn’t strike me as being any more offensive than the Cleveland Indians mascot. (Apparently, from it’s well-preserved state, it doesn’t seem that Abhi’s bat struck much of anything at all!

SHAMELESS PLUG: Check out Border Crossings, the South Asian-interest radio show I work on, tomorrow night, 10-11 pm (Central Time). Here is last week’s show with Abhi and Amardeep. And Merry Happy everybody.

I stand corrected – the term “crown colony” definitely rings a bell. Also, I have this vague recollection of Kenya being referred to during colonial rule as a “colony and protectorate”.

I hope it didn’t come off as a correction! More of a clarification. I am sickly fascinated by 20th century imperialism, particularly vis-a-vis diaspora, state, and governance

And you read Zinn if you go to a beatnik school like Camille or Muralimannered

I totally missed this the first time around My social studies education was, with the exception of 7-8th grade, disgustingly inadequate and certainly very pro-U.S. in its attitudes and representations. I think a lot of my questions (and questioning) of “historical fact” actually came from having heard alternative oral histories in the home. So, it came from being desi! At any rate, I did most of my “beatnik” reading on my own, outside of the classroom

I often wonder how much our perspective changes because of our location in the U.S. Kissinger did horrific things and would certainly be classified as a war criminal. Hitler’s exceptionalism is that he matched his disgusting ideology with brutal industrial efficiency. However, while his method may seem unique, it was not very far from what many other colonial powers were doing in other areas of the world. This does not diminish how disgusting his legacy is, but it’s politically convenient for other nations to scapegoat Hitler’s Germany to deflect attention away from their own gross injustices.

Thanks for the evenhanded enforcement of the rules. Often posters will make several leftwing ideologically charged statements on the sly (or in this case overtly) and then accuse anyone who responds back of “hijacking the thread” or “trolling”.

OK no more politically charged stuff and social commentary from me I promise. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all the mutineers.

should read:

I will try and find these quotes.

You are being condescending and derisive and making a personal attack.

This is what Golwalkar guruji the second sarsanghchalak of RSS said in his book `We on Our Nationhood Defined’: “

To keep up the purity of the race and its culture, Germany shocked the world by her purging the country of the semitic races — the Jews. Race pride at its highest has been manifested here…a good lesson for us in Hindusthan to learn and profit by.”

Also Bal Thackeray not a member of the RSS but certainly a part of the hindu right, has written articles in his newspaper Saamna praising Hitler which I have read, I will find try to find these quotes, they are in Marathi though.

RSS believes in a muscular Hindu nationalism, they want to make India a “Hindu Rashtra”. The whole concept of Hindutva is based on the hatred of the “other”; those who follow religions that did not originate in India(Jews and Parsis get a pass because they don’t have much strength innumbers to really challenge the Hindutva project)Swayamsevaks are indoctrinated with this hatred week after week, Modi and many other BJPleaders come from RSS.

I used to know people in India who were active in the RSS and my knowledge of RSS is gleaned from conversations with them, their capacity for hatred seemed bottomless.

and Pravin at #114 Word. Couldn’t have said it better myself. I am signing off from this thread now I have other things to attend to.

As far as Modi, I see this ridiculous article in rediff by some moron named B Raman http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/dec/24raman.htm

What he fails to say is “secularists” like myself are not mad at Modi for staqnding up for Hindu rights. I agree Hindus dont have to pander to minorities in India. However, this idiot does not mention the main reaosn why Modi is despised. He supported the massacre of muslims in his own state. A state he governs. A state where he is the Chief Minister of the Muslim residents and is obligated to protect. What i found despicable is another article in rediff which quotes some rich NRIs who support Modi. Well, Hitler made the trains run on time. The Nazis were efficient. Is that a good enough reason to support them? That is the same rationale they use to support Modi. Hell, Osama Bin Laden is a saint if you ignore the 9-11 bombing . The same applies to some of the Islamic fanatics who bomb India’s parliament or hijack their plane. They are not in it for the money. Should we praise them because the guy who was relased by India during the hijacking incident was a brilliant guy who eschewed riches to fight for his cause?