Comments on: Review: Nikita Lalwani’s “Gifted” http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/11/14/review_nikita_l/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Sudan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/11/14/review_nikita_l/comment-page-2/#comment-180451 Sudan Mon, 03 Dec 2007 22:04:16 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4857#comment-180451 <p>http://www.tesco.com/books/product.aspx?R=9781846855641&bci=66%7CFiction*4294659064%7CPanjabi Tesco's selling it for crying out loud!!</p> http://www.tesco.com/books/product.aspx?R=9781846855641&bci=66%7CFiction*4294659064%7CPanjabi Tesco’s selling it for crying out loud!!

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By: tamasha http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/11/14/review_nikita_l/comment-page-2/#comment-178445 tamasha Sat, 17 Nov 2007 18:45:51 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4857#comment-178445 <blockquote>They're just very, very proficient adders, subtracters, multipliers, and dividers, just like the cheap Casio I got from the dollar store.</blockquote> <p>Oh snap!</p> They’re just very, very proficient adders, subtracters, multipliers, and dividers, just like the cheap Casio I got from the dollar store.

Oh snap!

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By: likhari http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/11/14/review_nikita_l/comment-page-2/#comment-178368 likhari Sat, 17 Nov 2007 00:24:18 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4857#comment-178368 <p>Yeah this is cool. Are you guys aware as well as main stream literature, there are 3 other big things happening re the newdesi generation? 1) Dalgit Nagra types are breaking through, and as gifted indicates, now more and more asians are being accepted as serious writers. And they are not always writing about asian issues. 2) Regional Indian langugaes are getting an influx of British Desi writers choosing to communicate with their heritage community back home via hindi, punjabi and gujrati. Examples include Neela Noor in Punjabi, Meray Dushman, in Hindi and Yay London hain, in Gujrati. 3)British Asians are becoming mainstream</p> <p>Is this the case in the US?</p> <p>PS I recall you saying you would return back to regional languages after you did Ajit Cour, but I never saw it.</p> Yeah this is cool. Are you guys aware as well as main stream literature, there are 3 other big things happening re the newdesi generation? 1) Dalgit Nagra types are breaking through, and as gifted indicates, now more and more asians are being accepted as serious writers. And they are not always writing about asian issues. 2) Regional Indian langugaes are getting an influx of British Desi writers choosing to communicate with their heritage community back home via hindi, punjabi and gujrati. Examples include Neela Noor in Punjabi, Meray Dushman, in Hindi and Yay London hain, in Gujrati. 3)British Asians are becoming mainstream

Is this the case in the US?

PS I recall you saying you would return back to regional languages after you did Ajit Cour, but I never saw it.

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By: chachaji http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/11/14/review_nikita_l/comment-page-2/#comment-178363 chachaji Sat, 17 Nov 2007 00:06:22 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4857#comment-178363 <blockquote>I don't think there is any dispute that his reputation as a mathematician is completely independent of his ability as a human calculator.</blockquote> <ol> <li><p>Actually, I am questioning whether he should be remembered as a human calculator at all - even if, at a popular level, his contemporaries may have thought so (and even that I am not sure of).</p></li> <li><p>Secondly - as far as independence of the abilities themselves - while they are different abilities, and in the extreme they do not coincide (Shakuntala Devi is no mathematician) - it is possible for mathematicians of the highest rank to have a very high level of computational skill - as a <i>consequence</i> of their superb mathematical intuition - but this then would pale against people like Devi. I am saying that if Ramanujan was indeed a computational genius, then that ability came because he could see special cases of his general results pretty quickly.</p></li> </ol> <p>That's all on that, from me, here. BTW, Dev Benegal is <a href="http://devbenegal.com/2006/03/15/feature-film-on-math-genius-ramanujan/">making a movie</a> about Ramanujan.</p> I don’t think there is any dispute that his reputation as a mathematician is completely independent of his ability as a human calculator.
  1. Actually, I am questioning whether he should be remembered as a human calculator at all – even if, at a popular level, his contemporaries may have thought so (and even that I am not sure of).

  2. Secondly – as far as independence of the abilities themselves – while they are different abilities, and in the extreme they do not coincide (Shakuntala Devi is no mathematician) – it is possible for mathematicians of the highest rank to have a very high level of computational skill – as a consequence of their superb mathematical intuition – but this then would pale against people like Devi. I am saying that if Ramanujan was indeed a computational genius, then that ability came because he could see special cases of his general results pretty quickly.

That’s all on that, from me, here. BTW, Dev Benegal is making a movie about Ramanujan.

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By: Rahul http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/11/14/review_nikita_l/comment-page-2/#comment-178361 Rahul Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:45:14 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4857#comment-178361 <blockquote>So his calculation ability may pale beside Shakuntala Devi, though admittedly non-trivial in itself - and he could still be the greatest mathematician of the 20th century - or all time.</blockquote> <p>I don't think there is any dispute that his reputation as a mathematician is completely independent of his ability as a human calculator. If anything, it is the human interest story ("rags-to-riches", dying young, exotic oriental savant-type genius) that is more compelling in the public mind.</p> So his calculation ability may pale beside Shakuntala Devi, though admittedly non-trivial in itself – and he could still be the greatest mathematician of the 20th century – or all time.

I don’t think there is any dispute that his reputation as a mathematician is completely independent of his ability as a human calculator. If anything, it is the human interest story (“rags-to-riches”, dying young, exotic oriental savant-type genius) that is more compelling in the public mind.

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By: chachaji http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/11/14/review_nikita_l/comment-page-1/#comment-178360 chachaji Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:39:58 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4857#comment-178360 <blockquote>I do think the incident is evidence of significant calculation ability</blockquote> <p>This one incident keeps coming up in all stories of his life. There may have been others like it - but it seems to me that Ramanujan saw them as special cases (or the first non-trivial case) of his phenomenally more general results in number theory. So his calculation ability may pale beside Shakuntala Devi, though admittedly non-trivial in itself - and he could still be the greatest mathematician of the 20th century - or all time.</p> I do think the incident is evidence of significant calculation ability

This one incident keeps coming up in all stories of his life. There may have been others like it – but it seems to me that Ramanujan saw them as special cases (or the first non-trivial case) of his phenomenally more general results in number theory. So his calculation ability may pale beside Shakuntala Devi, though admittedly non-trivial in itself – and he could still be the greatest mathematician of the 20th century – or all time.

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By: Rahul http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/11/14/review_nikita_l/comment-page-1/#comment-178358 Rahul Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:24:12 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4857#comment-178358 <blockquote>Is this true, or was it that one of the branches of math that he contributed so solidly to...</blockquote> <p>There is the famous anecdote that Hardy narrates about the time he visited Ramanujan on his deathbed. Hardy made a throwaway remark that his cab number was 1729, to which Ramanujan immediately responded, "Interesting. It is the smallest number that can be expressed as the sum of two cubes in two different ways." (1729 = 9^3+10^3 = 1^3+12^3) This is a combination of both some amazing feel for numbers, and prodigious calculation ability.</p> <p>Also, one of the most amazing things about Ramanujan was his intuition. He would come up with the most abstruse formulae, seemingly purely because he intuited them, and without any rigorous proof technique. This contributed to quite a bit of skepticism about the veracity of his results. In fact, when Ramanujan wrote Hardy from India with his results (many of which were independent rediscoveries of previous theorems), Hardy was so stunned by some of the new results (usually listed without proofs) that he said something to the effect that he couldn't believe somebody could come up with them (My memory is hazy on the exact remark and quote, so I could be wildly mistating). I believe that his habit of listing theorems alone also made understanding and deciphering his notebooks difficult (some of his theorems were wrong too, but it was difficult to figure that out in the absence of proofs).</p> <p>As for his contributions in number theory themselves, his major results about theta functions and partition theory are pretty mathematically sophisticated and don't fall into the realm of pop mathematics, by any means. It is Ramanujan's diamond-in-the-rough story (combined with the "white man's burden" subtext) that really captured the popular imagination.</p> <p>(I just saw that one of your links is to the 1729 incident. Sorry for rehashing it, but in any case, I do think the incident is evidence of significant calculation ability).</p> Is this true, or was it that one of the branches of math that he contributed so solidly to…

There is the famous anecdote that Hardy narrates about the time he visited Ramanujan on his deathbed. Hardy made a throwaway remark that his cab number was 1729, to which Ramanujan immediately responded, “Interesting. It is the smallest number that can be expressed as the sum of two cubes in two different ways.” (1729 = 9^3+10^3 = 1^3+12^3) This is a combination of both some amazing feel for numbers, and prodigious calculation ability.

Also, one of the most amazing things about Ramanujan was his intuition. He would come up with the most abstruse formulae, seemingly purely because he intuited them, and without any rigorous proof technique. This contributed to quite a bit of skepticism about the veracity of his results. In fact, when Ramanujan wrote Hardy from India with his results (many of which were independent rediscoveries of previous theorems), Hardy was so stunned by some of the new results (usually listed without proofs) that he said something to the effect that he couldn’t believe somebody could come up with them (My memory is hazy on the exact remark and quote, so I could be wildly mistating). I believe that his habit of listing theorems alone also made understanding and deciphering his notebooks difficult (some of his theorems were wrong too, but it was difficult to figure that out in the absence of proofs).

As for his contributions in number theory themselves, his major results about theta functions and partition theory are pretty mathematically sophisticated and don’t fall into the realm of pop mathematics, by any means. It is Ramanujan’s diamond-in-the-rough story (combined with the “white man’s burden” subtext) that really captured the popular imagination.

(I just saw that one of your links is to the 1729 incident. Sorry for rehashing it, but in any case, I do think the incident is evidence of significant calculation ability).

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By: chachaji http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/11/14/review_nikita_l/comment-page-1/#comment-178356 chachaji Fri, 16 Nov 2007 23:13:45 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4857#comment-178356 <blockquote>Interestingly, Ramanujan was both a superb calculator and a mathematical genius.</blockquote> <p>Is this true, or was it that one of the branches of math that <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srinivasa_Ramanujan">he</a> contributed so solidly to - was <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_theory">number theory</a>, some of the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1729_(number)">more simple</a> of <a href="http://www.news.wisc.edu/13497">whose results</a> can be appreciated by the mathematically naive (occasionally, even by the innumerate), and the naive are then (mis)led to think they came from a human calculator?</p> Interestingly, Ramanujan was both a superb calculator and a mathematical genius.

Is this true, or was it that one of the branches of math that he contributed so solidly to – was number theory, some of the more simple of whose results can be appreciated by the mathematically naive (occasionally, even by the innumerate), and the naive are then (mis)led to think they came from a human calculator?

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By: sakshi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/11/14/review_nikita_l/comment-page-1/#comment-178349 sakshi Fri, 16 Nov 2007 22:37:28 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4857#comment-178349 <blockquote>Shakuntala Devi is (was?) a calculating prodigy, NOT a math prodigy; all she does is multiply big numbers in her head, nothing more. I would hesitate to place mental calculators on the same level as math geniuses. What insight do the former have into anything abstract? I wouldn't even call mental calculators arithmetic geniuses (it should be acrobatic arithmetic, not "acrobatic maths"). They're just very, very proficient adders, subtracters, multipliers, and dividers, just like the cheap Casio I got from the dollar store.</blockquote> <p>Interestingly, Ramanujan was both a superb calculator and a mathematical genius. But the newspapers of the time were a lot more enamored of his calculating skills than his mathematical achievements: he was the famed 'hindoo calculator'.</p> <p>I won't hold it against the book as Lalwani might well be aware of the difference, though she makes it so that her characters may not. A little girl may not realize that feats of calculation do not imply mathematical insight, and I can't tell from the excerpt what the background of Jaggi Bhaiyya is.</p> Shakuntala Devi is (was?) a calculating prodigy, NOT a math prodigy; all she does is multiply big numbers in her head, nothing more. I would hesitate to place mental calculators on the same level as math geniuses. What insight do the former have into anything abstract? I wouldn’t even call mental calculators arithmetic geniuses (it should be acrobatic arithmetic, not “acrobatic maths”). They’re just very, very proficient adders, subtracters, multipliers, and dividers, just like the cheap Casio I got from the dollar store.

Interestingly, Ramanujan was both a superb calculator and a mathematical genius. But the newspapers of the time were a lot more enamored of his calculating skills than his mathematical achievements: he was the famed ‘hindoo calculator’.

I won’t hold it against the book as Lalwani might well be aware of the difference, though she makes it so that her characters may not. A little girl may not realize that feats of calculation do not imply mathematical insight, and I can’t tell from the excerpt what the background of Jaggi Bhaiyya is.

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By: verma http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/11/14/review_nikita_l/comment-page-1/#comment-178330 verma Fri, 16 Nov 2007 21:15:18 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4857#comment-178330 <p>I am also a math major (pure...the way God intended it to be). Having read that short excerpt, though, I get the feeling that I won't enjoy this book much if I get around to it. Shakuntala Devi is (was?) a calculating prodigy, NOT a math prodigy; all she does is multiply big numbers in her head, nothing more. I would hesitate to place mental calculators on the same level as math geniuses. What insight do the former have into anything abstract? I wouldn't even call mental calculators arithmetic geniuses (it should be acrobatic arithmetic, not "acrobatic maths"). They're just very, very proficient adders, subtracters, multipliers, and dividers, just like the cheap Casio I got from the dollar store. Terry Tao (a real math genius) wrote an interesting post about genius in math on his blog - it can be found at http://terrytao.wordpress.com/career-advice/does-one-have-to-be-a-genius-to-do-maths/</p> I am also a math major (pure…the way God intended it to be). Having read that short excerpt, though, I get the feeling that I won’t enjoy this book much if I get around to it. Shakuntala Devi is (was?) a calculating prodigy, NOT a math prodigy; all she does is multiply big numbers in her head, nothing more. I would hesitate to place mental calculators on the same level as math geniuses. What insight do the former have into anything abstract? I wouldn’t even call mental calculators arithmetic geniuses (it should be acrobatic arithmetic, not “acrobatic maths”). They’re just very, very proficient adders, subtracters, multipliers, and dividers, just like the cheap Casio I got from the dollar store. Terry Tao (a real math genius) wrote an interesting post about genius in math on his blog – it can be found at http://terrytao.wordpress.com/career-advice/does-one-have-to-be-a-genius-to-do-maths/

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