Comments on: GapKids Shoppers, meet Bonded Child Laborers http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/29/gapkids_shopper/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: 123124123 http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/29/gapkids_shopper/comment-page-2/#comment-194940 123124123 Mon, 25 Feb 2008 14:58:49 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4822#comment-194940 <p>i my school making me read this</p> i my school making me read this

]]> By: Amy http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/29/gapkids_shopper/comment-page-1/#comment-175723 Amy Sat, 03 Nov 2007 05:36:12 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4822#comment-175723 <p>I'm a white-American living in Delhi. I cried when I read the front page of the paper on Monday about the Gap story. The whole thing is very complicated and very sad. Perhaps GAP could have approached the issue better--by punishing the people running the subcontract company and following through with paying the children for the work they have done and setting them up with safe-homes and school. That would be better than just pulling out of the contract and causing more poverty.</p> <p>But the other thing that bothers me is the typical attitude in Times of India for instance. No one wants to take responsibilty for the problem. Everyone knows it is a problem, as an article in Times of India on Tuesday said,"it is illegal for children to work, it is illegal for children to beg... but poverty is not illegal." The Indian paper and company points the finger at GAP, saying that it should not be able to just pull out of the contract. GAP blames the company for note following the guidelines--but maybe GAP was demanding an unrealistic price for clothing... <b>Isn't anyone sorry for their role in the whole mess, whether it was a conscious role or not? </b> Who will stop blaming others and start doing something to change things?</p> I’m a white-American living in Delhi. I cried when I read the front page of the paper on Monday about the Gap story. The whole thing is very complicated and very sad. Perhaps GAP could have approached the issue better–by punishing the people running the subcontract company and following through with paying the children for the work they have done and setting them up with safe-homes and school. That would be better than just pulling out of the contract and causing more poverty.

But the other thing that bothers me is the typical attitude in Times of India for instance. No one wants to take responsibilty for the problem. Everyone knows it is a problem, as an article in Times of India on Tuesday said,”it is illegal for children to work, it is illegal for children to beg… but poverty is not illegal.” The Indian paper and company points the finger at GAP, saying that it should not be able to just pull out of the contract. GAP blames the company for note following the guidelines–but maybe GAP was demanding an unrealistic price for clothing… Isn’t anyone sorry for their role in the whole mess, whether it was a conscious role or not? Who will stop blaming others and start doing something to change things?

]]> By: corporate serf http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/29/gapkids_shopper/comment-page-1/#comment-175545 corporate serf Thu, 01 Nov 2007 19:01:11 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4822#comment-175545 <p><i> Corporate serf, your argument makes no sense ... </i> Dude, this is the comment that I am responding to:</p> <p><i> In India (and other parts of South Asia) you could be literally chained to the loom that you are operating, working for 16 hours a day and be denied sunlight and sufficient food, leave alone school </i></p> <p>there is child slavery in the us too, and just as illegal as in india</p> <p>More generally, you want to impose a price floor for labour; correct? Just to satisfy your sensitive soul? Sure recipe for large scale unemployment. Feel free to not shop at Gap / Walmart, whatever. Your money is your money, unless it is someone else's money, in which case it is government's to be given to you as "Trade Adjustment Aid"</p> <p>Dude, from where I stand, free trade is the <em>only</em> fair trade</p> Corporate serf, your argument makes no sense … Dude, this is the comment that I am responding to:

In India (and other parts of South Asia) you could be literally chained to the loom that you are operating, working for 16 hours a day and be denied sunlight and sufficient food, leave alone school

there is child slavery in the us too, and just as illegal as in india

More generally, you want to impose a price floor for labour; correct? Just to satisfy your sensitive soul? Sure recipe for large scale unemployment. Feel free to not shop at Gap / Walmart, whatever. Your money is your money, unless it is someone else’s money, in which case it is government’s to be given to you as “Trade Adjustment Aid”

Dude, from where I stand, free trade is the only fair trade

]]> By: Adi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/29/gapkids_shopper/comment-page-1/#comment-175417 Adi Wed, 31 Oct 2007 23:49:20 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4822#comment-175417 <p>Like all other problems facing India, this too has no <u>one</u> answer to it.</p> <blockquote>Am not defending child labor, but it's easy for us to say. The issue is not exactly black and white</blockquote> <p>Ardy is right. This issue is entwined with the equally pressing problems of overpopulation, lack of education, and lack of jobs. One cannot be resolved without resolving the others, and it is not a matter of a day .. it will certainly take a decade more, at the very least. I've lived in India most of my life, and it is very common to see children employed in various jobs, some hazardous (which need an immediate and definite stop) and others menial (tea shop chotus and little maid servants). At the risk of being judged, I am going to mention that for some years my mother had employed a woman and her daughter (must have been 12 or 13) who would handle the domestic chores in the house. <b>However</b> there were certain ground rules that mom had set - the girl had to go to school, and would help with the easier tasks in the house (dusting/mopping). Mom also regularly gave books/clothes/food to the family. By refusing the employ the child, I doubt she would have helped the family much. There would just have been another mouth for the parents to feed (they had 7 kids), and at least this way the family could live a little better. I think these are the kind of steps we need to take right now to eventually bid good bye to child labor. I too would like to see an India free of child labor, but I don't think it is a one step Stop-Child-Labor-Now solution. It's easy to theorize from here, but reality is much harder and more complicated than our idealistic solutions. Just my 2 paise.</p> Like all other problems facing India, this too has no one answer to it.

Am not defending child labor, but it’s easy for us to say. The issue is not exactly black and white

Ardy is right. This issue is entwined with the equally pressing problems of overpopulation, lack of education, and lack of jobs. One cannot be resolved without resolving the others, and it is not a matter of a day .. it will certainly take a decade more, at the very least. I’ve lived in India most of my life, and it is very common to see children employed in various jobs, some hazardous (which need an immediate and definite stop) and others menial (tea shop chotus and little maid servants). At the risk of being judged, I am going to mention that for some years my mother had employed a woman and her daughter (must have been 12 or 13) who would handle the domestic chores in the house. However there were certain ground rules that mom had set – the girl had to go to school, and would help with the easier tasks in the house (dusting/mopping). Mom also regularly gave books/clothes/food to the family. By refusing the employ the child, I doubt she would have helped the family much. There would just have been another mouth for the parents to feed (they had 7 kids), and at least this way the family could live a little better. I think these are the kind of steps we need to take right now to eventually bid good bye to child labor. I too would like to see an India free of child labor, but I don’t think it is a one step Stop-Child-Labor-Now solution. It’s easy to theorize from here, but reality is much harder and more complicated than our idealistic solutions. Just my 2 paise.

]]> By: dCynic http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/29/gapkids_shopper/comment-page-1/#comment-175305 dCynic Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:15:59 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4822#comment-175305 <blockquote>Incidentally Kamaraj's predecessor as a CM had also had a plan to try to reconcile economic realities with the need for an education. The infamous Heriditory Occupation Plan</blockquote> <p>Instead of hereditary occupation, make it vocational training - then its a plan which can be useful even today. With a minimum age limit, of course. in fact, more holistic approaches are necessary instead of only banning child labor, and not looking at the rest of the problem (but no point expecting politicians to do <em>that</em>, sigh).</p> Incidentally Kamaraj’s predecessor as a CM had also had a plan to try to reconcile economic realities with the need for an education. The infamous Heriditory Occupation Plan

Instead of hereditary occupation, make it vocational training – then its a plan which can be useful even today. With a minimum age limit, of course. in fact, more holistic approaches are necessary instead of only banning child labor, and not looking at the rest of the problem (but no point expecting politicians to do that, sigh).

]]> By: DizzyDesi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/29/gapkids_shopper/comment-page-1/#comment-175268 DizzyDesi Wed, 31 Oct 2007 07:06:13 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4822#comment-175268 <blockquote>Krihnan --> Do you have links where I can read about it ? In TN, it is accepted as fact that MGR introduced it when he was in power and the slater day narrative has been that his experience growing up poor drove him to introduce that program. I would be curious to see if MGR did borrow from Sen(and the committee).</blockquote> <p>The Midday meal scheme was pioneered (and propogated in a big way) by Kamaraj when he was the CM (i.e. donkeys years ago). MGR made it universal.</p> <p>Sen was a Johnny come lately bandwagon jumper who endosed it after the midday meal scheme had been well established for decades.</p> <p><a href="http://www.hindu.com/2007/10/08/stories/2007100851050200.htm">Links on a school which hindu claims was the prototype for the scheme</a>. I am sure wiki has something</p> <p>Incidentally Kamaraj's predecessor as a CM had also had a plan to try to reconcile economic realities with the need for an education. The infamous <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hereditary_Education_Policy">Heriditory Occupation Plan</a></p> Krihnan –> Do you have links where I can read about it ? In TN, it is accepted as fact that MGR introduced it when he was in power and the slater day narrative has been that his experience growing up poor drove him to introduce that program. I would be curious to see if MGR did borrow from Sen(and the committee).

The Midday meal scheme was pioneered (and propogated in a big way) by Kamaraj when he was the CM (i.e. donkeys years ago). MGR made it universal.

Sen was a Johnny come lately bandwagon jumper who endosed it after the midday meal scheme had been well established for decades.

Links on a school which hindu claims was the prototype for the scheme. I am sure wiki has something

Incidentally Kamaraj’s predecessor as a CM had also had a plan to try to reconcile economic realities with the need for an education. The infamous Heriditory Occupation Plan

]]> By: sic semper tyrannis http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/29/gapkids_shopper/comment-page-1/#comment-175262 sic semper tyrannis Wed, 31 Oct 2007 05:49:21 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4822#comment-175262 <p>amardeep,</p> <p>You're giving links to IBN and UK Observer?? Are you serious? Have you no integrity?? Pick a serious news source, like <a href="http://www.theonion.com/content/video/gap_unveils_new_for_kids_by_kids">this</a>.</p> amardeep,

You’re giving links to IBN and UK Observer?? Are you serious? Have you no integrity?? Pick a serious news source, like this.

]]> By: melbourne desi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/29/gapkids_shopper/comment-page-1/#comment-175227 melbourne desi Wed, 31 Oct 2007 01:13:34 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4822#comment-175227 <blockquote>It still is bloody that they destroyed or are destroying the clothes instead of giving them to the children who worked so hard to make them.</blockquote> <p>this is crazy - why not just give the clothes to the Red Cross or UNHCR. Lots of people need clothes.</p> It still is bloody that they destroyed or are destroying the clothes instead of giving them to the children who worked so hard to make them.

this is crazy – why not just give the clothes to the Red Cross or UNHCR. Lots of people need clothes.

]]> By: Amit http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/29/gapkids_shopper/comment-page-1/#comment-175206 Amit Tue, 30 Oct 2007 22:10:18 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4822#comment-175206 <p>How about if the corporations and companies prominently labeled their products that use child labor as "uses child labor" and let the customers decide for themselves if they want to buy the product or not? Now that's what I'd call free market - <b>informed customer</b> making a free choice with all the information on hand, and <b>transparency in business methods</b>. Imagine you walk into an <i>H&M</i> store (randomly picked, apologies to H&M fans) and there is a huge sign right in front that greets you with "Child Labor Product Section - this way" - you follow it to see pictures of smiling kids displayed on the wall right above the stack of jeans, just for that personal touch. Nothing like connecting with the human being who lovingly sewed the buttons on your shirt. I think <i>Whole Foods</i> already does something similar in their produce section with pictures and stories of farmers who grew those tomatoes you are about to put into your shopping basket. So, any corporate/free-market enthusiasts in the house? :) :)</p> How about if the corporations and companies prominently labeled their products that use child labor as “uses child labor” and let the customers decide for themselves if they want to buy the product or not? Now that’s what I’d call free market – informed customer making a free choice with all the information on hand, and transparency in business methods. Imagine you walk into an H&M store (randomly picked, apologies to H&M fans) and there is a huge sign right in front that greets you with “Child Labor Product Section – this way” – you follow it to see pictures of smiling kids displayed on the wall right above the stack of jeans, just for that personal touch. Nothing like connecting with the human being who lovingly sewed the buttons on your shirt. I think Whole Foods already does something similar in their produce section with pictures and stories of farmers who grew those tomatoes you are about to put into your shopping basket. So, any corporate/free-market enthusiasts in the house? :) :)

]]> By: GreenDaddy http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/29/gapkids_shopper/comment-page-1/#comment-175191 GreenDaddy Tue, 30 Oct 2007 20:32:24 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4822#comment-175191 <p>UNICEF has advocated for improving options for women as a way to end child labor. Download their 2005 report: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/11_12_06SOWC2007.pdf. I think it is very good. Plenty of evidence shows that women allocate their wealth and income to children's education and health more so than men. The informal labor sectors should be addressed systematically. The 2005 UNIFEM Progress of the World's Women report has a wealth information about the challenges of organizing home-based workers and providing social protection to them. My understanding is that the growing consensus in the development community and advocates is that changes to social norms, incentive policies, law, micro, and macro schemes all need to take place in order to alleviate intractable poverty and the child labor. We all need to press our governments to recommit to the millennium development goals, which includes universal primary education.</p> UNICEF has advocated for improving options for women as a way to end child labor. Download their 2005 report: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/11_12_06SOWC2007.pdf. I think it is very good. Plenty of evidence shows that women allocate their wealth and income to children’s education and health more so than men. The informal labor sectors should be addressed systematically. The 2005 UNIFEM Progress of the World’s Women report has a wealth information about the challenges of organizing home-based workers and providing social protection to them. My understanding is that the growing consensus in the development community and advocates is that changes to social norms, incentive policies, law, micro, and macro schemes all need to take place in order to alleviate intractable poverty and the child labor. We all need to press our governments to recommit to the millennium development goals, which includes universal primary education.

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