Comments on: Dubai — The Beginning of the End? http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/29/dubai_the_begin/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: badmash http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/29/dubai_the_begin/comment-page-2/#comment-175739 badmash Sat, 03 Nov 2007 15:55:05 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4823#comment-175739 <p>A quick response to Cyrus since I'm just about to hop on the train to work.</p> <p>Mexicans and Turkish people (who have contributed to the economies of Germanya nd the US) at least have the contributions recognized throuh residency and citizenship processes. This is more than I can say for the racist immigration policies of the Gulf where whether you accept it or not, South Asians - from the engineers to brick layers to the business community, built Dubai up step by step. This is goign to be even more so in the new knowledge economy.</p> <p>No I guess Jim Crowe is the wrong term to use - apartheid is more accurate. I haven't seen the "strange fruit that southern trees bear" in Dubai, but Arabs beating up or raping South Asian employees (even killing an occasional worker/maid) and systematic racism - from the street to the corporate offices - were commonplace, as were the segregated neighbourhoods, shopping malls etc. 4 generations in Dubai and my family still needs visas to enter and leave the country. So yes not Jim Crowe - apartheid is more accurate.</p> <p>Less S Asian workers in the next 10 years? I keep hearing these threats - I've heeard them for the last 15 years and if history has shown us anything, it's that Dubai especially (but all of the rest GGC countries as well) can't do without S Asian expertise and labour.</p> A quick response to Cyrus since I’m just about to hop on the train to work.

Mexicans and Turkish people (who have contributed to the economies of Germanya nd the US) at least have the contributions recognized throuh residency and citizenship processes. This is more than I can say for the racist immigration policies of the Gulf where whether you accept it or not, South Asians – from the engineers to brick layers to the business community, built Dubai up step by step. This is goign to be even more so in the new knowledge economy.

No I guess Jim Crowe is the wrong term to use – apartheid is more accurate. I haven’t seen the “strange fruit that southern trees bear” in Dubai, but Arabs beating up or raping South Asian employees (even killing an occasional worker/maid) and systematic racism – from the street to the corporate offices – were commonplace, as were the segregated neighbourhoods, shopping malls etc. 4 generations in Dubai and my family still needs visas to enter and leave the country. So yes not Jim Crowe – apartheid is more accurate.

Less S Asian workers in the next 10 years? I keep hearing these threats – I’ve heeard them for the last 15 years and if history has shown us anything, it’s that Dubai especially (but all of the rest GGC countries as well) can’t do without S Asian expertise and labour.

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By: future http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/29/dubai_the_begin/comment-page-2/#comment-175435 future Thu, 01 Nov 2007 01:20:58 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4823#comment-175435 <p>http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/01/world/middleeast/01dubai.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin</p> <p>I'm sorry he'res the story in teh NYTIMES.</p> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/01/world/middleeast/01dubai.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

I’m sorry he’res the story in teh NYTIMES.

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By: future http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/29/dubai_the_begin/comment-page-2/#comment-175434 future Thu, 01 Nov 2007 01:19:23 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4823#comment-175434 <p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/01/world/middleeast/01dubai.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin"></a></p> <p>This is chilling and it happend to someone with money and power relative to the desis there.</p>

This is chilling and it happend to someone with money and power relative to the desis there.

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By: Anush http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/29/dubai_the_begin/comment-page-1/#comment-175416 Anush Wed, 31 Oct 2007 23:28:16 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4823#comment-175416 <p>I have been living in Dubai for a few months now .. agree with most comments above ( though wud love to add tht there is a Gurdwara and Temple in Dubai ! ) ...</p> <p>From the outside the city looks wonderful , but as u dig deeper the picture is not so pretty ...</p> <p>many Indians and Pakistanis claim the problems realted to pay are also caused by inflow of cheap Filipino and Nepali labourers who work for less than half of <i>normal </i>pay !</p> <p>The conditions are appalling and the labour inflow from subcontinent is supposedly declining ... Govt also doesnt help ... There is a new rule being formulated by GCC countries to put 6 year cap on visas , this gonna make it worser !</p> I have been living in Dubai for a few months now .. agree with most comments above ( though wud love to add tht there is a Gurdwara and Temple in Dubai ! ) …

From the outside the city looks wonderful , but as u dig deeper the picture is not so pretty …

many Indians and Pakistanis claim the problems realted to pay are also caused by inflow of cheap Filipino and Nepali labourers who work for less than half of normal pay !

The conditions are appalling and the labour inflow from subcontinent is supposedly declining … Govt also doesnt help … There is a new rule being formulated by GCC countries to put 6 year cap on visas , this gonna make it worser !

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By: P.G. Wodehouse http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/29/dubai_the_begin/comment-page-1/#comment-175372 P.G. Wodehouse Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:04:08 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4823#comment-175372 <p>Deep@#31:</p> <p>Nice post.</p> Deep@#31:

Nice post.

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By: Deep http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/29/dubai_the_begin/comment-page-1/#comment-175370 Deep Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:58:30 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4823#comment-175370 <p>That's an interesting point, Preston.</p> <p>In Abu Dhabi, I remember, the indifference from the "better-placed" (within the Indian community) towards the poorly treated workers was as troubling as a neutered Indian Embassy. The fear of deportation is heavy, so few people wish to attempt anything considered subversive. People write about the problem, yes -- newspapers print them sometimes. Even talk about it. And there are Emirati ministers I am certain who understand the problem requires considerable reform. But so far I have found it rare to meet a man or a woman who was willing to walk next to or go on strike for a laborer protesting shoddy treatment in a country where an easy fix is deportation. You are imprisoned first of course, then deported.</p> <p>Aside: HBO's Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel once aired a segment on child camel jockeys smuggled to the U.A.E.. The program focussed on this Pakistani fellow who made it his mission to rescue most of these kids. The segment became a public relations nightmare for the government, coming under severe pressure to do something. The kids were sent home, some back to the very families forced to sell them. Robots do the job now.</p> That’s an interesting point, Preston.

In Abu Dhabi, I remember, the indifference from the “better-placed” (within the Indian community) towards the poorly treated workers was as troubling as a neutered Indian Embassy. The fear of deportation is heavy, so few people wish to attempt anything considered subversive. People write about the problem, yes — newspapers print them sometimes. Even talk about it. And there are Emirati ministers I am certain who understand the problem requires considerable reform. But so far I have found it rare to meet a man or a woman who was willing to walk next to or go on strike for a laborer protesting shoddy treatment in a country where an easy fix is deportation. You are imprisoned first of course, then deported.

Aside: HBO’s Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel once aired a segment on child camel jockeys smuggled to the U.A.E.. The program focussed on this Pakistani fellow who made it his mission to rescue most of these kids. The segment became a public relations nightmare for the government, coming under severe pressure to do something. The kids were sent home, some back to the very families forced to sell them. Robots do the job now.

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By: brown http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/29/dubai_the_begin/comment-page-1/#comment-175369 brown Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:58:01 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4823#comment-175369 <p>PS,</p> <p>The only reason I can think why Bollywood doesn't get involved is precisely what you state. They see Dubai etc as big overseas markets and they don't want to jeopardize that. Given our history, I think a lot of people in India are focused on very short terms objectives, which in these cases is making as much money as they can. The increased global exposure has also exposed a lot more Indians to Western consumption ideals, I am not saying that is correct but that is what is happening on the ground. I am not sure if you travel to India often, but in big cities the transition is mind boggling, people are thinking selfishly at the moment but I have high hopes. I personally am willing to give it time and am almost positive things will turn around.</p> PS,

The only reason I can think why Bollywood doesn’t get involved is precisely what you state. They see Dubai etc as big overseas markets and they don’t want to jeopardize that. Given our history, I think a lot of people in India are focused on very short terms objectives, which in these cases is making as much money as they can. The increased global exposure has also exposed a lot more Indians to Western consumption ideals, I am not saying that is correct but that is what is happening on the ground. I am not sure if you travel to India often, but in big cities the transition is mind boggling, people are thinking selfishly at the moment but I have high hopes. I personally am willing to give it time and am almost positive things will turn around.

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By: PS http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/29/dubai_the_begin/comment-page-1/#comment-175366 PS Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:28:06 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4823#comment-175366 <p><i>Where's the outrage in India and Pakistan? If there's no outrage on the subcontinent, it's hard to see why other countries should care beyond an abstract humanitarian concern. </i></p> <p>Yes, that's what I'm thinking. I've said this before but I wish some bollywood people would take this up as a cause - I mean bollywood is popular in the middle east, they admire the stars, might help to start changing public perception along with the govt and activists' work and spur some change.</p> Where’s the outrage in India and Pakistan? If there’s no outrage on the subcontinent, it’s hard to see why other countries should care beyond an abstract humanitarian concern.

Yes, that’s what I’m thinking. I’ve said this before but I wish some bollywood people would take this up as a cause – I mean bollywood is popular in the middle east, they admire the stars, might help to start changing public perception along with the govt and activists’ work and spur some change.

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By: brown http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/29/dubai_the_begin/comment-page-1/#comment-175364 brown Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:10:29 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4823#comment-175364 <p>Should the Indian government also be more vocal about underpaid H1b workers? I read an article sometime back that stated that an H1B worker is 20% underpaid compared to his or her American counterpart.</p> Should the Indian government also be more vocal about underpaid H1b workers? I read an article sometime back that stated that an H1B worker is 20% underpaid compared to his or her American counterpart.

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By: Preston http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/29/dubai_the_begin/comment-page-1/#comment-175361 Preston Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:51:56 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4823#comment-175361 <p>RE outrage:</p> <p>Where's the outrage in India and Pakistan? If there's no outrage on the subcontinent, it's hard to see why other countries should care beyond an abstract humanitarian concern. India does precious little for its Gulf workers except soak up some $5 billion per year from them in remittances.</p> RE outrage:

Where’s the outrage in India and Pakistan? If there’s no outrage on the subcontinent, it’s hard to see why other countries should care beyond an abstract humanitarian concern. India does precious little for its Gulf workers except soak up some $5 billion per year from them in remittances.

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