Comments on: Econ 101 Works: Call Centers http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/16/econ_101_works_1/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: voiceinthehead http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/16/econ_101_works_1/comment-page-1/#comment-172508 voiceinthehead Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:04:37 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4794#comment-172508 <blockquote>When the phone rings years from now, the call center may be in another country entirely.</blockquote> <p>I read the article except for this part, there isn't much to disagree with the article. India's workforce is <i>huge.</i> Even with 40% turnover rate, BPO will not run out of people willing to work. The only troubling thing is salary growth has been faster than anticipated, due to poor quality of workforce and those with right skills being highly in demand.</p> <p>Wake me up when BPOs actually have trouble recruiting ppl, which is not the case.</p> When the phone rings years from now, the call center may be in another country entirely.

I read the article except for this part, there isn’t much to disagree with the article. India’s workforce is huge. Even with 40% turnover rate, BPO will not run out of people willing to work. The only troubling thing is salary growth has been faster than anticipated, due to poor quality of workforce and those with right skills being highly in demand.

Wake me up when BPOs actually have trouble recruiting ppl, which is not the case.

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By: gen_xer http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/16/econ_101_works_1/comment-page-1/#comment-172485 gen_xer Thu, 18 Oct 2007 08:55:16 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4794#comment-172485 <p>I am working in Bangalore on assignment from the US. Some random observations from here: 1. The newspapers are filled with interesting tech/nontech jobs. 2. The traffic & pollution has increased exponentially in the last 4 years. 3. The mall rats of Bangalore could easily be confused with American mall rats. 4. Women's fashion is highly segmented: Saris (older/poorer), Salvars (semi-modern) & jeans (mall girls).<br /> 5. Nobody wears shorts... occasionally I see it while playing tennis. 6. Indian Institute of Science is filled with hungry, confident and smart people.<br /> 7. The big US companies in tech (Intel, HP, IBM, Dell, ATT, etc.) are hiring like mad in India.<br /> 8. Germans are everywhere in the infrastructure buildup of India. 9. Cricket is a national obsession. 10. Cost of living is expensive... the mall prices are no different than US prices.</p> I am working in Bangalore on assignment from the US. Some random observations from here: 1. The newspapers are filled with interesting tech/nontech jobs. 2. The traffic & pollution has increased exponentially in the last 4 years. 3. The mall rats of Bangalore could easily be confused with American mall rats. 4. Women’s fashion is highly segmented: Saris (older/poorer), Salvars (semi-modern) & jeans (mall girls).
5. Nobody wears shorts… occasionally I see it while playing tennis. 6. Indian Institute of Science is filled with hungry, confident and smart people.
7. The big US companies in tech (Intel, HP, IBM, Dell, ATT, etc.) are hiring like mad in India.
8. Germans are everywhere in the infrastructure buildup of India. 9. Cricket is a national obsession. 10. Cost of living is expensive… the mall prices are no different than US prices.

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By: melbourne desi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/16/econ_101_works_1/comment-page-1/#comment-172444 melbourne desi Thu, 18 Oct 2007 02:18:09 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4794#comment-172444 <blockquote>I heard there are even classes on 'bpo' training offered in public schools these days</blockquote> <p>You mean private schools ? Private schools in India are normally called Public Schools.</p> <p>Yes, BPO training is being offered in government schools or what used to be called in chennai as 'st.cobbs' - short form for Madras Corporation schools.</p> <blockquote>latin is definitely a private school affair </blockquote> <p>Latin was taught by Christian missionaries as it was the language of the Church. Every altarboy needed to learn Latin. Further, if you had any desire to participate in church prayers one had to learn Latin. So many men and women learnt Latin. Latin was not private school in the sense of Doon / Bombay Scottish. Now, I dont think anyone learns Latin - I could be wrong.</p> I heard there are even classes on ‘bpo’ training offered in public schools these days

You mean private schools ? Private schools in India are normally called Public Schools.

Yes, BPO training is being offered in government schools or what used to be called in chennai as ‘st.cobbs’ – short form for Madras Corporation schools.

latin is definitely a private school affair

Latin was taught by Christian missionaries as it was the language of the Church. Every altarboy needed to learn Latin. Further, if you had any desire to participate in church prayers one had to learn Latin. So many men and women learnt Latin. Latin was not private school in the sense of Doon / Bombay Scottish. Now, I dont think anyone learns Latin – I could be wrong.

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By: Tara Watabe http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/16/econ_101_works_1/comment-page-1/#comment-172386 Tara Watabe Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:51:38 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4794#comment-172386 <blockquote>yes, but the growth in india is not ground-up, but restricted to the middle class. if anything, it is <b>increasing the income disparity in that consumer goods and services (restaurants, movie theaters, sodas, whatever) have in fact been priced up to account for the increased buying power of this newly rich middle class, and is pushing them out of the range of the still poor majority</b>. unless manufacturing takes off </blockquote> <p>The difference between the wealthy, modern sections of an Indian metropolis and an Indian village or small town are more appearant than between those sections of the Indian metropolis and an American small town. It's always a major cultural shock for me to take the bus from our village to New Delhi and back than it is to fly from NY to New Delhi and back.</p> yes, but the growth in india is not ground-up, but restricted to the middle class. if anything, it is increasing the income disparity in that consumer goods and services (restaurants, movie theaters, sodas, whatever) have in fact been priced up to account for the increased buying power of this newly rich middle class, and is pushing them out of the range of the still poor majority. unless manufacturing takes off

The difference between the wealthy, modern sections of an Indian metropolis and an Indian village or small town are more appearant than between those sections of the Indian metropolis and an American small town. It’s always a major cultural shock for me to take the bus from our village to New Delhi and back than it is to fly from NY to New Delhi and back.

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By: rob http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/16/econ_101_works_1/comment-page-1/#comment-172382 rob Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:41:42 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4794#comment-172382 <blockquote>34 · vic Large farms in India are limited by legistlation in most states in India. There is a ceiling on how much land an individual can own.</blockquote> <p>Vic--thanks--interesting. Do you happen to know if this legislation applies to "legal persons" (i.e., corporations), or just natural ones?</p> 34 · vic Large farms in India are limited by legistlation in most states in India. There is a ceiling on how much land an individual can own.

Vic–thanks–interesting. Do you happen to know if this legislation applies to “legal persons” (i.e., corporations), or just natural ones?

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By: No von Rostow http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/16/econ_101_works_1/comment-page-1/#comment-172315 No von Rostow Wed, 17 Oct 2007 18:02:24 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4794#comment-172315 <p>pulled from the staple Economic Development 101 textbook by Todaro and Smith:</p> <blockquote>When interest in the poor nations of the world really began to materialize following the Second World War, economists in the industrialized nations were caught off guard. They had no readily available conceptual apparatus with which to analyze the process of economic growth in largely agrarian societies characterized by the virtual absence of modern economic structures. But they did have the recent experience of the Marshall Plan, under which massive amounts of U.S. financial and technical assistance enabled the war-torn countries of Europe to rebuild and modernize their economies in a matter of a few years. Moreover, was it not true that all modern industrial nations were once undeveloped agrarian societies? Surely their historical experience in transforming their economies from poor agricultural subsistence societies to modern industrial giants had important lessons for the "backward" countries of Asia, Africa, and Latin America. The logic and simplicity of these two strands of thought--the utility of massive injections of capital and the historical pattern of the now developed countries--was too irresistible to be refuted by scholars, politicians, and administrators in rich countries to whom people and ways of life in the developing world were often no more real than U.N. statistics or scattered chapters in anthropology books. Because of its emphasis on the central role of accelerated capital, this approach is often dubbed "capital fundamentalism."</blockquote> <p>Then they cover Rostow's stages of growth, Harrod-Domar (or Harold-Kumar as I called it) and then this biting bit:</p> <blockquote>Unfortunately, the mechanisms of development embodied in the theory of stages of growth did not always work. And the basic reason they didn't work was not because more saving and investment isn't a necessary condition for accelerated rates of economic growth--it is--but rather because it is not a sufficient condition. The Marshall Plan worked for Europe because the European countries receiving aid possessed the necessary structural, institutional, and attitudinal conditions (e.g., well-integrated commodity and money markets, highly developed transport facilities, a well-trained and educated workforce, the motivation to succeed, an efficient government bureaucracy) to convert new capital effectively into higher levels of output. The Rostow and Harrod-Domar models implicitly assume the existence of these same attitudes and arrangements in underdeveloped nations. Yet in many cases they are lacking, as are complimentary factors such as managerial competence, skilled labor, and the ability to plan and administer a wide assortment of development projects. But at an even more fundamental level, the stages theory failed to take into account the crucial fact that contemporary developing nations are part of a highly integrated and complex international system in which even the best and most intelligent development strategies can be nullified by external forces beyond the countries' control.</blockquote> <p>throw in the sectoral constraints that have been mentioned above and the linear stages theory becomes less of a staple and more of a solitary piece in an eclectic puzzle that informs us on development issues.</p> pulled from the staple Economic Development 101 textbook by Todaro and Smith:

When interest in the poor nations of the world really began to materialize following the Second World War, economists in the industrialized nations were caught off guard. They had no readily available conceptual apparatus with which to analyze the process of economic growth in largely agrarian societies characterized by the virtual absence of modern economic structures. But they did have the recent experience of the Marshall Plan, under which massive amounts of U.S. financial and technical assistance enabled the war-torn countries of Europe to rebuild and modernize their economies in a matter of a few years. Moreover, was it not true that all modern industrial nations were once undeveloped agrarian societies? Surely their historical experience in transforming their economies from poor agricultural subsistence societies to modern industrial giants had important lessons for the “backward” countries of Asia, Africa, and Latin America. The logic and simplicity of these two strands of thought–the utility of massive injections of capital and the historical pattern of the now developed countries–was too irresistible to be refuted by scholars, politicians, and administrators in rich countries to whom people and ways of life in the developing world were often no more real than U.N. statistics or scattered chapters in anthropology books. Because of its emphasis on the central role of accelerated capital, this approach is often dubbed “capital fundamentalism.”

Then they cover Rostow’s stages of growth, Harrod-Domar (or Harold-Kumar as I called it) and then this biting bit:

Unfortunately, the mechanisms of development embodied in the theory of stages of growth did not always work. And the basic reason they didn’t work was not because more saving and investment isn’t a necessary condition for accelerated rates of economic growth–it is–but rather because it is not a sufficient condition. The Marshall Plan worked for Europe because the European countries receiving aid possessed the necessary structural, institutional, and attitudinal conditions (e.g., well-integrated commodity and money markets, highly developed transport facilities, a well-trained and educated workforce, the motivation to succeed, an efficient government bureaucracy) to convert new capital effectively into higher levels of output. The Rostow and Harrod-Domar models implicitly assume the existence of these same attitudes and arrangements in underdeveloped nations. Yet in many cases they are lacking, as are complimentary factors such as managerial competence, skilled labor, and the ability to plan and administer a wide assortment of development projects. But at an even more fundamental level, the stages theory failed to take into account the crucial fact that contemporary developing nations are part of a highly integrated and complex international system in which even the best and most intelligent development strategies can be nullified by external forces beyond the countries’ control.

throw in the sectoral constraints that have been mentioned above and the linear stages theory becomes less of a staple and more of a solitary piece in an eclectic puzzle that informs us on development issues.

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By: Camille http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/16/econ_101_works_1/comment-page-1/#comment-172298 Camille Wed, 17 Oct 2007 17:07:29 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4794#comment-172298 <p>Aw, thanks Puli. It helps that the mutiny posts on so many different topics that I find interesting, so the praise deservedly belongs to the mutineers.</p> Aw, thanks Puli. It helps that the mutiny posts on so many different topics that I find interesting, so the praise deservedly belongs to the mutineers.

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By: Puliogre in da USA http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/16/econ_101_works_1/comment-page-1/#comment-172291 Puliogre in da USA Wed, 17 Oct 2007 16:07:58 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4794#comment-172291 <blockquote>Why, Puli? [not saying you're vapid, just not gathering the underlying intent]</blockquote> <p>nah. its just that I am not sure how you have the energy to post such insightfull comments on diverse topics. I apparently have a degree in economics, and I just dont have the energy to say anything as insightfull as the stuff you casually drop....</p> Why, Puli? [not saying you're vapid, just not gathering the underlying intent]

nah. its just that I am not sure how you have the energy to post such insightfull comments on diverse topics. I apparently have a degree in economics, and I just dont have the energy to say anything as insightfull as the stuff you casually drop….

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By: vic http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/16/econ_101_works_1/comment-page-1/#comment-172285 vic Wed, 17 Oct 2007 15:33:27 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4794#comment-172285 <p>Rob</p> <p>Large farms in India are limited by legistlation in most states in India. There is a ceiling on how much land an individual can own. The impetus for that was to eliminate the large feudal landlords....something that Pakistan still has. Large farms do not produce better yields, and 60% of India is still engaged in agragarian occupation. They may have less costs, but then you have issue of landless labor. If there is no reform in that sector, the core of Indian nationhood could start to rot.</p> Rob

Large farms in India are limited by legistlation in most states in India. There is a ceiling on how much land an individual can own. The impetus for that was to eliminate the large feudal landlords….something that Pakistan still has. Large farms do not produce better yields, and 60% of India is still engaged in agragarian occupation. They may have less costs, but then you have issue of landless labor. If there is no reform in that sector, the core of Indian nationhood could start to rot.

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By: dravidian lurker http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/10/16/econ_101_works_1/comment-page-1/#comment-172239 dravidian lurker Wed, 17 Oct 2007 07:21:12 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4794#comment-172239 <blockquote>It’s pretty much a staple of Econ Development 101 that all economies start with crap jobs and that, overtime, competition for workers grows, productivity grows, and thus salaries grow.</blockquote> <p>yes, but the growth in india is not ground-up, but restricted to the middle class. if anything, it is increasing the income disparity in that consumer goods and services (restaurants, movie theaters, sodas, whatever) have in fact been priced up to account for the increased buying power of this newly rich middle class, and is pushing them out of the range of the still poor majority. unless manufacturing takes off (and there are some efforts towards this, although i haven't seen too much uptake yet), there is a serious risk of this economic growth posing class conflict, not a trickle-down utopia.</p> <blockquote>you make me wish i was less vapid.... Why, Puli? [not saying you're vapid, just not gathering the underlying intent]</blockquote> <p>awwww... puli likes camille :) but c'mon man, stop being such a beta!</p> It’s pretty much a staple of Econ Development 101 that all economies start with crap jobs and that, overtime, competition for workers grows, productivity grows, and thus salaries grow.

yes, but the growth in india is not ground-up, but restricted to the middle class. if anything, it is increasing the income disparity in that consumer goods and services (restaurants, movie theaters, sodas, whatever) have in fact been priced up to account for the increased buying power of this newly rich middle class, and is pushing them out of the range of the still poor majority. unless manufacturing takes off (and there are some efforts towards this, although i haven’t seen too much uptake yet), there is a serious risk of this economic growth posing class conflict, not a trickle-down utopia.

you make me wish i was less vapid…. Why, Puli? [not saying you're vapid, just not gathering the underlying intent]

awwww… puli likes camille :) but c’mon man, stop being such a beta!

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