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One of your more absurd statements, and it is hard to pick just one. Ask the Georgians, Armenians, Ukranians, Poles, Romanians how the communists dealt with ethnic differences. Secondly, communists were pressuring the U.S. into allowing immigrants? Wouldn’t it make more sense for the Soviet Union to have allowed immigration into its own region from the developing world, if it wanted to win the battle of public opinion? Then again, if you had the misfortune of living in say, East Berlin, and decided to make a better life for yourself by fleeing to the west – your wishes were greeting by a few shots from a Kalishnikov fired into your back.

“FYI, it was the British Empire that empowered the wahhabis of Saudi Arabia. You must be one of the few people who didnt see the movie Lawrence of Arabia. T. E. Lawrence, great hero of the Empire, can be considered the father of modern terrorism. The British Empire was founded on theft, genocide, piracy, drug running etc. “

Dhoni, why dont you stop living in a time warp ? What will make people like you to stop living in the 19th century? Who cares what the Brits did in 1904 ?? It doesnt wash away the fact the Saudis gave the world Wahabbist idealogy.

“And the U.S. has continued the support of wahhabis. Bin Laden and his ilk were called freedom fighters by Reagan when they were fighting the Soviet Union, and wahhabi Saudi Arabia which finances all these jihadi producing madrassas worldwide is a long term american ally.”

Now they are repenting for that support – the 9/11 attacks have put all these policies under a very harsh light. Is it possible for a country to recover from its mistakes or do we just keep condemning it for ever ?

“You, KXB, chachaji et al obviously do not really believe this (correctly). Which is why you are so desperate to make India a subservient tool of the powerful anglosphere.”

Yeah and you have the special knowledge about how we are going to become a subservient tool, dont you ? Inferiority complex is’nt going to help arguments, does it??

“will be repercussions if this deal is not going to come through. Some of it will be in the form of FDI. But most importantly it will be in the arena of trustworthiness Sheer cravenness and cluelessness. China gets multiple times the FDI that India gets without signing such deals.”

Cravenness ?? Cluelessness? Who the hell is craven to who ?? Do you know how much work was put into the deal and to come to this point ? Every one here in the US is admonishing the US Govt for giving into India , while you call us being craven to the US !! If any one needs to get a clue it is people like you.

“Laughably stupid. You are making a point against yourself. Its nuclear energy that is far more dependent on India’s ‘woeful power transmission and distribution’ infrastructure. Solar energy can be independent of India’s decrepit infrastructure; it can scale from powering tiny electronics to entire cities and solar panels can be mass produced far more easily than nuclear power plants.”

Hmmm… Is it possible that we can get our power systems and grids to operate more efficiently or have you totally lost faith on India to do such a thing.? Is it possible to privatize the system, get Government hands off the whole thing and reduce inefficiencies ?? Is it possible that the nuclear power plants springing up a blessing to kick start our power systems being reformed ??

Who in the world has demonstrated the great extent to which you claim that solar energy can scale ?? Can you please give concrete examples of entire cities being powered by solar energy ?? You are welcome to live in your fantasy lands, just dont ask other people to join you.

“The U.S. was forced into liberating a large percentage of its own people from long term tyranny (african-americans and other coloreds including desis) because of the moral pressure applied by communists during the Cold War. Thank the commies for the fact that your colored ass is even allowed to immigrate here.”

Moral pressure applied by the commies ?? If i have ever heard of a bigger joke about the morality of communism, this has to be it !!! You have no idea in hell of how many people here in the US have fought for equal civil liberties for people of all colors. They were’nt communists, not by any stretch of imagination !!

Communism is anithetical to basic human freedoms and individual liberty – it is laughable to even think that communists applied “moral pressure” to the US. Try telling this to East European countries like Poland, Romania, Hungary who suffered under Soviet Communism !! Try telling this to the millions of Russians who were sent to the gulags by Stalin and the millions of Chinese who were killed by Mao’s “Great Leap Forward”.

Such love for communism gets my blood boiling. And dont you dare to pass racist comments and get away scott free. I am not an immigrant and my colored ass is here because of my merits , not because of your F**KED UP communists !!

But the world system will recognize it only if elevating it further buttresses and strengthens the system, or if it is so strong in its own right that not co-opting it runs the serious risk of severely disrupting it. The Pakistan issue figures as part of both these latter considerations – is the world system better if India is admitted to the SC without a resolution of the issue, or – does leaving India out increase the chance of something (like a nuclear exchange) which severely disrupts the system, at least locally and temporarily?

I think the India-Pakistan issue should be resolved anyway, just from the local pov; but even from the world system pov – elevating a state which has such a long-standing and seemingly unresolvable existential conflict to a position where it is supposed to strengthen and buttress the system – can affect the perception (and reality) of the legitimacy of the system. Sure, Taiwan probably doesn’t like China in the P-5, (nor does India like the fact that China is in while it is out), and Ukraine and Poland probably don’t like that Russia is in. But the India-Pakistan thing goes deeper – there have been four hot wars, much overt hostility, long-continuing low-intensity (but bloody) conflict, and several near-nuclear exchanges. So it is in India’s own interest to resolve that, or concede that world-system intervention is necessary to resolve it (undercutting its claims to regional pre-eminence, and thus also to elevation in the SC).

As I see it, India has now realized that it makes a lot of sense to work within the system and get the things it really wants – greater local and global security, better terms of trade, greater international labor mobility (e.g., more H-1B visas, and similar visas into the EU) etc, while also working toward recognition and elevation. As the guarantor-hegemon of the world system today, and the core of the largest contintentally integrated economy – the US is in a position to help India – both to achieve its larger geopolitical aims as well as the specific aim of ‘permanent membership’, but won’t do so unless it is fully convinced that India will be on its side both strategically and tactically, and for the long term.

The nuclear deal formalizes that strategic understanding, and I fully expect that once that happens and fully gets going, India will eventually be accomodated as a ‘permanent’ member of the Security Council, along with others, though without a veto (like all others, including the current P-5), sometime in the next decade and half – perhaps around 2020. But the settlement with Pakistan also has to happen, and it is in India’s own interest to do that proactively, (and hopefully also evolve a strategic consensus with Pakistan, and claim that seat jointly).

India is also working separately with Japan and Germany (who are its peers in GDP PPP, and whose formal elevation is expected to strengthen and buttress the world system); and with Brazil and South Africa (who, like itself, are representatives of regions neglected in the permanent membership) – both as something useful in itself, and as a way of advancing their respective cases for permanent membership.

I do like the supermajority concept with 10 or so Permanent Members. 8 out of 10 sounds good. Or maybe they can come up with a mechanism to override a veto with a simple majority in the general membership and a supermajority in the permanent membership or some other formula including the permanent and temporary members of the Security Council.

I don’t think you have to resort to namecalling to make your point. Chachaji, KXB, Kush and others make their point respectfully and so far this has been a great exchange, I don’t think there is any need to make it a pissing match.

Here’s a question for you – How would you deal with a country which gave rise to fundamentalist Wahabbism

FYI, it was the British Empire that empowered the wahhabis of Saudi Arabia. You must be one of the few people who didnt see the movie Lawrence of Arabia.

T. E. Lawrence, great hero of the Empire, can be considered the father of modern terrorism. The British Empire was founded on theft, genocide, piracy, drug running etc.

And the U.S. has continued the support of wahhabis. Bin Laden and his ilk were called freedom fighters by Reagan when they were fighting the Soviet Union, and wahhabi Saudi Arabia which finances all these jihadi producing madrassas worldwide is a long term american ally.

India has the fourth largest army in the world and needs NO ONES protection for its economic or national security.

You, KXB, chachaji et al obviously do not really believe this (correctly). Which is why you are so desperate to make India a subservient tool of the powerful anglosphere.

US is a trillion dollar economy

FYI, the U.S. is a 13 to 14 trillion dollar economy. India on the other hand is not even close to being a trillion dollar economy (nominal) despite being more than 3 times as populous.

oil will trade in the high 80′s if the demand from China and India grows by the day and OPEC tries to profitize this situation to the hilt

FYI, oil was already trading in the high 80s when you wrote that and is now trading in the 90s.

will be repercussions if this deal is not going to come through. Some of it will be in the form of FDI. But most importantly it will be in the arena of trustworthiness

Sheer cravenness and cluelessness. China gets multiple times the FDI that India gets without signing such deals.

, our power transmission and distribution systems are so woeful and need urgent reform, it would be nothing short of a fantasy to even think about new energy systems emerging successfully when these alternatives are not proven to be useful for mass production and distribution.

Laughably stupid. You are making a point against yourself. Its nuclear energy that is far more dependent on India’s ‘woeful power transmission and distribution’ infrastructure. Solar energy can be independent of India’s decrepit infrastructure; it can scale from powering tiny electronics to entire cities and solar panels can be mass produced far more easily than nuclear power plants.

US is a liberal democracy and has liberated more people from tyranny than any other country in the world.

The U.S. was forced into liberating a large percentage of its own people from long term tyranny (african-americans and other coloreds including desis) because of the moral pressure applied by communists during the Cold War. Thank the commies for the fact that your colored ass is even allowed to immigrate here.

maybe it’s because the U.S. was not living up to its reputation as a liberal democracy that it came in for such fierce criticism. No one criticizes China much for its human rights records because it makes no pretense of being a democracy.

For your information, the U.S. is being criticized for Abu Graib, Guantanamo etc not because its “not living up to its reputation as a liberal democracy” but because its violating international laws and conventions.

Chachaji:

Japan chose to ally with the US post-1945, but during the 1920s and 30s attempted to compete with the US across the Pacific. We know how that turned out. You call it a client state, but for a client state it has certainly done amazingly well for itself. There are worse fates India could be cursed with!

For your information, Japan had no choice but to ally with the U.S. after being nuked (a war crime if ever there was one) and occupied by it. Secondly Japan was already a world power, mass producing fighter planes, aircraft carriers etc before it was defeated. India on the other hand is still incapable of building tanks, planes and even artillery pieces. Its laughable to compare India’s position in the world with that of Japan which is first-world.

Kush Tandon:

, Solar, Gobar Gas, Hydrogen cell, Geothermal (except Iceland) are interesting alternate energy sources worth pursuing, however, none of them fit economies of scale, except farting

Ignorant nonsense. For your information, hydrogen cells are not ‘alternate energy sources’. Secondly Solar energy scales far better and fits economies of scale far better than nuclear energy.

There are two things about the whole way you’re coming at this that seem questionable. One, you’re assuming the UNSC structure will remain the same going forward – it most likely won’t, and changing it in any direction will not be easy, hasn’t happened for 60+ years – and admitting a brand new member with a veto is most unlikely of all. Second, it isn’t logic or demographic weight or the spirit of inclusiveness, but the needs of the powerful that decide who gets to sit at world high tables.

China’s case illustrates this most clearly. It was admitted as a permanent member of UNSC in 1945 after it was conferred ‘Great Power’ status in 1943 by the Allies during WW2. It was a very different politial entity at that time, and was expected to, and did, vote with the US in the UNSC. During 1949-71, after PRC came into being – it was Taiwan that held the seat because the US refused to recognize the PRC. India argued for PRC, as a matter of principle, hoping that would help its own case, but it made no difference.

When the UNSC membership was being considered in 1945, Britain, thought it, through the Commonwealth, would represent India’s interests – so you’re right that once that didn’t happen to the extent India wanted or would have liked, some revision was in order. Who knows, if Partition hadn’t occured, or the war had ended sooner, or independence had come earlier, India might have come in as a permanent member as a whole. But since that didn’t happen, India can only work within the system now to gain admittance, and with Pakistan also having a reasonable case, it makes a whole lot of sense to work together; or at least to strengthen its own case by settling the dispute with Pakistan (and doing the right thing besides).