Comments on: Some "Straight Talk" about Muslims and Mormons http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/09/30/some_straight_t/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: hmmmm http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/09/30/some_straight_t/comment-page-2/#comment-171062 hmmmm Thu, 11 Oct 2007 20:28:01 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4759#comment-171062 <p>tume sab log phokat ho kya?</p> tume sab log phokat ho kya?

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By: noblekinsman http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/09/30/some_straight_t/comment-page-2/#comment-169971 noblekinsman Thu, 04 Oct 2007 22:25:19 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4759#comment-169971 <p>""I wish that one of these dudes would actually take the step of elucidating what exactly they mean by "Christian principles."""</p> <p>I'll bite, though I'm not one of those dudes.</p> <p>People fail to neglect that Jefferson and them were a small minority in their deism -- and that the country never was nor should be "theirs," which even they would agree with. If the people want a religious country, they should get to have one. Most of the country in the eighteenth century was fiercely religious at the time, especially following the Great Awakening of the 1730s and 1740s. Much of what drove the independence movement and its fighters had nothing to do with taxes or issuing currency (which is really what the constitutional framers and writers of dec of ind had in mind) but with their idea of God's covenant with the people of this land. Complete independence from England and its church (and of course Rome and its) would finish what those separatist calvinists had in mind when they left the netherlands and came to plymouth-- divorce from a corrupt materialist society and the establishment of one dedicated purely to Christian principles, Winthrop's "City upon a hill." Whenever people get all flushed up about America, that is what they're getting flushed up about, and that is, even for a hindu in america, a celebration of protestantism. To pretend that Protestantism is not central to the founding of America is plain wrong; America is nothing but an experiment in radical Protestantism. The "separation of church and state" is primarily a way to keep power away from clergymen and the pope.</p> <p>Everything from the celebration of plainness in speech to the lack of ornamentation in architecture (other than for those pagan-loving people that made DC) in America is pure protestant.</p> “”I wish that one of these dudes would actually take the step of elucidating what exactly they mean by “Christian principles.”"”

I’ll bite, though I’m not one of those dudes.

People fail to neglect that Jefferson and them were a small minority in their deism — and that the country never was nor should be “theirs,” which even they would agree with. If the people want a religious country, they should get to have one. Most of the country in the eighteenth century was fiercely religious at the time, especially following the Great Awakening of the 1730s and 1740s. Much of what drove the independence movement and its fighters had nothing to do with taxes or issuing currency (which is really what the constitutional framers and writers of dec of ind had in mind) but with their idea of God’s covenant with the people of this land. Complete independence from England and its church (and of course Rome and its) would finish what those separatist calvinists had in mind when they left the netherlands and came to plymouth– divorce from a corrupt materialist society and the establishment of one dedicated purely to Christian principles, Winthrop’s “City upon a hill.” Whenever people get all flushed up about America, that is what they’re getting flushed up about, and that is, even for a hindu in america, a celebration of protestantism. To pretend that Protestantism is not central to the founding of America is plain wrong; America is nothing but an experiment in radical Protestantism. The “separation of church and state” is primarily a way to keep power away from clergymen and the pope.

Everything from the celebration of plainness in speech to the lack of ornamentation in architecture (other than for those pagan-loving people that made DC) in America is pure protestant.

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By: Nanda Kishore http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/09/30/some_straight_t/comment-page-2/#comment-169652 Nanda Kishore Wed, 03 Oct 2007 15:16:44 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4759#comment-169652 <p>At the very least, overt religiosity (even to the mildest extent) would rule out any Muslim candidate, or for that matter people of most other religions. It'll take major changes in the US and elsewhere to change perceptions, but a presidential candidate, someone who would be responsible for protecting rights saying this is downright pandering. Even Hollywood toes the line on how a President looks like, most of the time. I'm not sure though that even liberals will find easy to vote for a Muslim candidate, unless he/she has an exemplary record of defending freedoms (of course, conversatives will have their own views on how to defend freedoms and America), and he/she may actually be held to a standard higher than the norm.</p> At the very least, overt religiosity (even to the mildest extent) would rule out any Muslim candidate, or for that matter people of most other religions. It’ll take major changes in the US and elsewhere to change perceptions, but a presidential candidate, someone who would be responsible for protecting rights saying this is downright pandering. Even Hollywood toes the line on how a President looks like, most of the time. I’m not sure though that even liberals will find easy to vote for a Muslim candidate, unless he/she has an exemplary record of defending freedoms (of course, conversatives will have their own views on how to defend freedoms and America), and he/she may actually be held to a standard higher than the norm.

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By: mish http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/09/30/some_straight_t/comment-page-2/#comment-169572 mish Wed, 03 Oct 2007 00:10:44 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4759#comment-169572 <p>Senator McCain is close. I wouldn't want a Wahabbi Muslim for President. But when it comes to Mormonism, he apparently doesn't know about the Mormon temple oath, where Mormons swear to do EVERYTHING they can to establish their church on earth. See the Featured Post "A warning from someone inside Mitt Romney's cult" and also "Do you want a Raelian - or a Mormon - for President?" at</p> <p><a href="http://romneyforpresident.townhall.com/">romneyforpresident.townhall.com</a></p> <p>Like Mormonism, the blog isn't what it seems.</p> <p>(Funny photos too.)</p> Senator McCain is close. I wouldn’t want a Wahabbi Muslim for President. But when it comes to Mormonism, he apparently doesn’t know about the Mormon temple oath, where Mormons swear to do EVERYTHING they can to establish their church on earth. See the Featured Post “A warning from someone inside Mitt Romney’s cult” and also “Do you want a Raelian – or a Mormon – for President?” at

romneyforpresident.townhall.com

Like Mormonism, the blog isn’t what it seems.

(Funny photos too.)

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By: vishal http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/09/30/some_straight_t/comment-page-2/#comment-169495 vishal Tue, 02 Oct 2007 20:46:46 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4759#comment-169495 <p>Just an aside, an Indian muslim named <a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DuH-8KWgOq2Q&ei=4JECR_ipFpioepzs1NoC&usg=AFQjCNH0ubAgUYesIvSsdzEt7VMyfX4L4w&sig2=wOuvyrOobkiba7jX90bYkA">Raja</a> is a finalist at the SaReGaMaPa challenge.</p> Just an aside, an Indian muslim named Raja is a finalist at the SaReGaMaPa challenge.

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By: Mary http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/09/30/some_straight_t/comment-page-2/#comment-169453 Mary Tue, 02 Oct 2007 17:53:29 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4759#comment-169453 <p>Apologies for the Christocentric expression, but hallelujah AMEN, Pravin!</p> Apologies for the Christocentric expression, but hallelujah AMEN, Pravin!

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By: Amit http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/09/30/some_straight_t/comment-page-2/#comment-169452 Amit Tue, 02 Oct 2007 17:42:34 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4759#comment-169452 <blockquote>I'm sure someone has the details on this but if Pearl Jam had campaigned for Al Gore instead of Ralph Nader would George W still be President?</blockquote> <p>Yeah, I wonder along the same lines too. What if Clinton had remained zipped up in WH? What if Gore had actually won his <b>home state</b> Tennessee? What if the Democrats had actually done more about the disenfranchised black voters and <a href="http://baltimorechronicle.com/bookrev_palast_jun02.shtml">vote fraud in FL</a>? A Democrat senator had supported the <a href="http://cnnstudentnews.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/stories/01/06/electoral.vote/">black congressional caucus</a> when they raised the issue of voter fraud? <a href="http://www.gp.org/organize/spoiled.html">So</a> many <a href="http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?cp=1&kaid=86&subid=84&contentid=2919">variables</a> and they had more control over many of those variables than Nader.</p> <p>Why focus on and hate one guy who actually has the balls to take a stand against corruption? If more people actually supported people like him instead of saying "Yeah, I agree, but he can't win" (I'd be rich if I got a penny every time I heard that), maybe, just maybe things would be different. But it's easier to blame others than to look in the mirror (though we can easily <a href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=1zpTQCQEFhg">sing about it</a>) - that's a universal human nature, so I can understand why this canard still continues to live on, 7 years on. But I don't agree with it. :)</p> I’m sure someone has the details on this but if Pearl Jam had campaigned for Al Gore instead of Ralph Nader would George W still be President?

Yeah, I wonder along the same lines too. What if Clinton had remained zipped up in WH? What if Gore had actually won his home state Tennessee? What if the Democrats had actually done more about the disenfranchised black voters and vote fraud in FL? A Democrat senator had supported the black congressional caucus when they raised the issue of voter fraud? So many variables and they had more control over many of those variables than Nader.

Why focus on and hate one guy who actually has the balls to take a stand against corruption? If more people actually supported people like him instead of saying “Yeah, I agree, but he can’t win” (I’d be rich if I got a penny every time I heard that), maybe, just maybe things would be different. But it’s easier to blame others than to look in the mirror (though we can easily sing about it) – that’s a universal human nature, so I can understand why this canard still continues to live on, 7 years on. But I don’t agree with it. :)

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By: Pravin http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/09/30/some_straight_t/comment-page-2/#comment-169430 Pravin Tue, 02 Oct 2007 15:51:24 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4759#comment-169430 <blockquote>I'm sure someone has the details on this but if Pearl Jam had campaigned for Al Gore instead of Ralph Nader would George W still be President</blockquote> <p>I think democrats need to stop blaming Nader and look within themselves for why they blew an election against a spoiled self entitled brat like Son of Bush and Darth Cheney. If Buchanan got more votes, i doubt Repubs would have any case to blame him. Dems lost more votes because of overpaid lousy consultants who had no firm convictions. Lieberman was a total failure in the debate and failed to show Cheney for what he was. Democrats got lazy and expected to automatically win. Nader did not cost them the senate or house either. But I see Dems blame Nader for all the problems they have had since then. Even now, for 2008, they seem to be running hoping Bush keeps messing up instead of trying to offer any concrete solutions. Right now, i am resigned to <i>Madame Hillary </i>winning.</p> I’m sure someone has the details on this but if Pearl Jam had campaigned for Al Gore instead of Ralph Nader would George W still be President

I think democrats need to stop blaming Nader and look within themselves for why they blew an election against a spoiled self entitled brat like Son of Bush and Darth Cheney. If Buchanan got more votes, i doubt Repubs would have any case to blame him. Dems lost more votes because of overpaid lousy consultants who had no firm convictions. Lieberman was a total failure in the debate and failed to show Cheney for what he was. Democrats got lazy and expected to automatically win. Nader did not cost them the senate or house either. But I see Dems blame Nader for all the problems they have had since then. Even now, for 2008, they seem to be running hoping Bush keeps messing up instead of trying to offer any concrete solutions. Right now, i am resigned to Madame Hillary winning.

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By: amreekan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/09/30/some_straight_t/comment-page-2/#comment-169424 amreekan Tue, 02 Oct 2007 15:13:41 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4759#comment-169424 <p>This evangelical Christian mentality has recently been reincarnated in the military to an alarming degree, as outlined by retired Air Force Office, Mickey Weinstein (Jewish, with several generations of his family serving in the military.) His book, "With God on Our Side", shows how careers may be stymied if the officers and grunts do not conform. Doubtless this results not only in religous bigotry but enormous religious hypocracy in many of those who do outwardly accept conformity. http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/20642</p> <p>The intent of the American founders was that religion was clearly not to play a MANDATORY role in education or public life. Many studies have been done on this subject and the country become more publicly religious during the evanagelical years of the early-mid 19th century.</p> This evangelical Christian mentality has recently been reincarnated in the military to an alarming degree, as outlined by retired Air Force Office, Mickey Weinstein (Jewish, with several generations of his family serving in the military.) His book, “With God on Our Side”, shows how careers may be stymied if the officers and grunts do not conform. Doubtless this results not only in religous bigotry but enormous religious hypocracy in many of those who do outwardly accept conformity. http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/20642

The intent of the American founders was that religion was clearly not to play a MANDATORY role in education or public life. Many studies have been done on this subject and the country become more publicly religious during the evanagelical years of the early-mid 19th century.

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By: Asha's Dad http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/09/30/some_straight_t/comment-page-2/#comment-169410 Asha's Dad Tue, 02 Oct 2007 09:31:19 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4759#comment-169410 <p>I'm sure someone has the details on this but if Pearl Jam had campaigned for Al Gore instead of Ralph Nader would George W still be President?</p> I’m sure someone has the details on this but if Pearl Jam had campaigned for Al Gore instead of Ralph Nader would George W still be President?

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