Comments on: Going for broke(rs) http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/09/21/going_for_broke/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Anthony http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/09/21/going_for_broke/comment-page-1/#comment-168290 Anthony Wed, 26 Sep 2007 05:25:38 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4741#comment-168290 <p>I find it comic that all Indian bloggers prattle on about "free markets" but have a pause when they hear about people earning more than themselves. Sir, you right well, but you dont have half the brains it takes to make a good banker. This kind of "anti-super-wealth" rubbish (while shameless worshipping film/political dynasties, corrupt politicians, and over compensated sports stars) is what is driving IIM graduates to NY, London, Hong Kong and Sydney.</p> <p>Lets not be crabs in the barrel, and let smart people earn their pay.</p> I find it comic that all Indian bloggers prattle on about “free markets” but have a pause when they hear about people earning more than themselves. Sir, you right well, but you dont have half the brains it takes to make a good banker. This kind of “anti-super-wealth” rubbish (while shameless worshipping film/political dynasties, corrupt politicians, and over compensated sports stars) is what is driving IIM graduates to NY, London, Hong Kong and Sydney.

Lets not be crabs in the barrel, and let smart people earn their pay.

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By: Rev.bayes http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/09/21/going_for_broke/comment-page-1/#comment-167986 Rev.bayes Mon, 24 Sep 2007 19:39:13 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4741#comment-167986 <blockquote>No probs, brown. But I think a $250K starting salary is fantastic anywhere in the world, including if you plan to live in Manhattan, SanFran, or London. </blockquote> <p>Actually, a lot of those kinds of salaries are <em>laterals</em> i.e. people who already have a significant amount of experience in corporate life before they come into b-school. Nonetheless, that is a serious chunk of change.</p> No probs, brown. But I think a $250K starting salary is fantastic anywhere in the world, including if you plan to live in Manhattan, SanFran, or London.

Actually, a lot of those kinds of salaries are laterals i.e. people who already have a significant amount of experience in corporate life before they come into b-school. Nonetheless, that is a serious chunk of change.

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By: chachaji http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/09/21/going_for_broke/comment-page-1/#comment-167971 chachaji Mon, 24 Sep 2007 18:31:42 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4741#comment-167971 <p>No probs, <b>brown</b>. But I think a $250K starting salary is fantastic anywhere in the world, including if you plan to live in Manhattan, SanFran, or London.</p> No probs, brown. But I think a $250K starting salary is fantastic anywhere in the world, including if you plan to live in Manhattan, SanFran, or London.

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By: brown http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/09/21/going_for_broke/comment-page-1/#comment-167966 brown Mon, 24 Sep 2007 17:47:08 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4741#comment-167966 <p>Chachaji,</p> <p>Thank you for the detailed response, the kicker to IIM salaries is that most of the high paying positions are in London/HK and U.S</p> Chachaji,

Thank you for the detailed response, the kicker to IIM salaries is that most of the high paying positions are in London/HK and U.S

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By: chachaji http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/09/21/going_for_broke/comment-page-1/#comment-167963 chachaji Mon, 24 Sep 2007 17:36:18 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4741#comment-167963 <p>Yes, I agree, the IIM subsidies are a matter of serious concern as well. Starting salaries for IIM graduates have gone into the stratosphere - there was a report of someone getting a Rs. 1.1 crore offer ($250K p.a.) this year at Ahmedabad. Sure, that may be an outlier, but even if the average is a fifth of that, at a 'reasonable-sounding' $50K p.a., it's a great return on the fees that are charged. I think, though (just my gut feeling) that there isn't as much resistance to market-norming the cost of an IIM education, as in the IIT case.</p> <p>Just a couple of side points - all the IITs have Departments of Management and Business - including BHU-IT and Roorkee and even the IISc at Bangalore, but perhaps excluding Guwahati (I don't know). Some of them, such as IIT-Bombay and IIT-Kharagpur, also have fully branded Business Schools. The IIT engineering curriculum, in its core and electives, does include business courses, as well as Humanities, as well it should. No problem there.</p> <p>As people well know, when engineers grow in mainline technical careers, they can branch off into sales engineering or technical management, which can call for some specialized training, and both of which add a lot of economic value. I fully support the idea of those tracks.</p> <p>I hope this hasn't gotten too far off topic. Thanks.</p> Yes, I agree, the IIM subsidies are a matter of serious concern as well. Starting salaries for IIM graduates have gone into the stratosphere – there was a report of someone getting a Rs. 1.1 crore offer ($250K p.a.) this year at Ahmedabad. Sure, that may be an outlier, but even if the average is a fifth of that, at a ‘reasonable-sounding’ $50K p.a., it’s a great return on the fees that are charged. I think, though (just my gut feeling) that there isn’t as much resistance to market-norming the cost of an IIM education, as in the IIT case.

Just a couple of side points – all the IITs have Departments of Management and Business – including BHU-IT and Roorkee and even the IISc at Bangalore, but perhaps excluding Guwahati (I don’t know). Some of them, such as IIT-Bombay and IIT-Kharagpur, also have fully branded Business Schools. The IIT engineering curriculum, in its core and electives, does include business courses, as well as Humanities, as well it should. No problem there.

As people well know, when engineers grow in mainline technical careers, they can branch off into sales engineering or technical management, which can call for some specialized training, and both of which add a lot of economic value. I fully support the idea of those tracks.

I hope this hasn’t gotten too far off topic. Thanks.

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By: brown http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/09/21/going_for_broke/comment-page-1/#comment-167961 brown Mon, 24 Sep 2007 16:47:39 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4741#comment-167961 <p>Also Chachji, what do you think of the subsidies to IIM education, I believe like IITs the fees are subsidized there as well. I personally feel the stronger the financial sector the better it is, although it may lead to excessive focus on earnings, I believe that a robust financial sector also increases competition, innovation and accountability all of which India can do with.</p> Also Chachji, what do you think of the subsidies to IIM education, I believe like IITs the fees are subsidized there as well. I personally feel the stronger the financial sector the better it is, although it may lead to excessive focus on earnings, I believe that a robust financial sector also increases competition, innovation and accountability all of which India can do with.

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By: brown http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/09/21/going_for_broke/comment-page-1/#comment-167960 brown Mon, 24 Sep 2007 16:40:20 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4741#comment-167960 <p>I am with Sic on this issue, I believe that a strong and visible financial services sector which will eventually lead to increased financing through munies will do all round good.</p> I am with Sic on this issue, I believe that a strong and visible financial services sector which will eventually lead to increased financing through munies will do all round good.

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By: chachaji http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/09/21/going_for_broke/comment-page-1/#comment-167959 chachaji Mon, 24 Sep 2007 15:36:16 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4741#comment-167959 <blockquote>Are we wishing for just a little bit of manipulative power over a market driven economy? Remember, Chachaji, one cannot be a little bit pregnant.</blockquote> <p>Actually, Floridian, the argument is that the introduction of the Wall Street culture <i>without withdrawing the subsidy to the IIT education</i> is like being a little bit pregnant. If the subsidy was withdrawn, while at the same time, a free market which demanded technical talent also arose, then this distortion should not arise. Some IIT engineers in this situation may go into finance, and that should even out, except if the financial sector, though the entry of Wall Street firms with deep pockets, became extraordinarily strong, and was able to pay above market salaries, etc. The distortion with the subsidy is not limited to "misunderutilizing" the IIT graduate, there a number of horizontal and downstream effects as well. This is the crux of the matter that KXB has raised. As you will agree, there is a real economy, which produces goods and consumables, and a financial economy, which ideally should intermediate between capital suppliers and capital demanders, pocketing an intermediary's fee. However, in practice, the financial sector has a lot of power, and the question is whether it should be stronger, and by how much?</p> <p>Thank you for the good words, and I do recognize the economic value of advertising, no disrespect was meant to that sector in general! :)</p> Are we wishing for just a little bit of manipulative power over a market driven economy? Remember, Chachaji, one cannot be a little bit pregnant.

Actually, Floridian, the argument is that the introduction of the Wall Street culture without withdrawing the subsidy to the IIT education is like being a little bit pregnant. If the subsidy was withdrawn, while at the same time, a free market which demanded technical talent also arose, then this distortion should not arise. Some IIT engineers in this situation may go into finance, and that should even out, except if the financial sector, though the entry of Wall Street firms with deep pockets, became extraordinarily strong, and was able to pay above market salaries, etc. The distortion with the subsidy is not limited to “misunderutilizing” the IIT graduate, there a number of horizontal and downstream effects as well. This is the crux of the matter that KXB has raised. As you will agree, there is a real economy, which produces goods and consumables, and a financial economy, which ideally should intermediate between capital suppliers and capital demanders, pocketing an intermediary’s fee. However, in practice, the financial sector has a lot of power, and the question is whether it should be stronger, and by how much?

Thank you for the good words, and I do recognize the economic value of advertising, no disrespect was meant to that sector in general! :)

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By: Floridian http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/09/21/going_for_broke/comment-page-1/#comment-167957 Floridian Mon, 24 Sep 2007 14:57:03 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4741#comment-167957 <h1>24 Chachaji: "Distortionary consequences arise, however, if the economic value generated in employing the engineer as a soap salesman (or bond salesman, for that matter) is less than the economic value that can be derived from him being employed in (say) engineering design or R&D."</h1> <p>Are we wishing for just a little bit of manipulative power over a market driven economy? Remember, Chachaji, one cannot be a little bit pregnant.</p> <p>Knowing how diligently you apply yourself to issues, I am sincerely interested in your views about the economic value of advertising, essentially a free market industry that brings some very smart people together for a very specific purpose - sell more soap.</p> 24 Chachaji: “Distortionary consequences arise, however, if the economic value generated in employing the engineer as a soap salesman (or bond salesman, for that matter) is less than the economic value that can be derived from him being employed in (say) engineering design or R&D.”

Are we wishing for just a little bit of manipulative power over a market driven economy? Remember, Chachaji, one cannot be a little bit pregnant.

Knowing how diligently you apply yourself to issues, I am sincerely interested in your views about the economic value of advertising, essentially a free market industry that brings some very smart people together for a very specific purpose – sell more soap.

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By: IBanker http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/09/21/going_for_broke/comment-page-1/#comment-167941 IBanker Mon, 24 Sep 2007 04:35:13 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4741#comment-167941 <p><b>q: how prominent should finance be in a nation’s economic profile? </b></p> <p>ans: It should be as prominent as it is in the US and Germany. The answer is that it is second only to the government in importance to a country's economy.</p> <p>the reason for India's "developing country" status is a long history of misgovernance and bad investments. All in the hands of the <i>sarkari babu</i>. If you think about it, allocating a country's budget efficiently is the biggest investment challenge of all and should be based on a sound financial principle, ie ROI - return on investment. The private banking industry does it better than politically motivated ministers.</p> q: how prominent should finance be in a nation’s economic profile?

ans: It should be as prominent as it is in the US and Germany. The answer is that it is second only to the government in importance to a country’s economy.

the reason for India’s “developing country” status is a long history of misgovernance and bad investments. All in the hands of the sarkari babu. If you think about it, allocating a country’s budget efficiently is the biggest investment challenge of all and should be based on a sound financial principle, ie ROI – return on investment. The private banking industry does it better than politically motivated ministers.

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