Comments on: Working for the Pat Down: TSA turban policy http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/08/25/working_for_the/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: aurora borealis http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/08/25/working_for_the/comment-page-2/#comment-247496 aurora borealis Tue, 08 Sep 2009 09:50:57 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4683#comment-247496 <p>Muslim women with headscarves are being subjected to a secondary pat down as well -- regardless of whether the alarm goes off. My little sibling, who wears a headscarf, was recently subject to a secondary pat down. She was asked to put her hands on her head, while the TSA agent patted her down. Her hands were then "swabbed" (because she touched her headscarf with them). My sister, who is in her last year of law school, asked the Agent why she was being subjected to this. The agent simply said: "because you are wearing bulky clothing." My sister was wearing a light summer tunic with a pair of fitted jeans.</p> Muslim women with headscarves are being subjected to a secondary pat down as well — regardless of whether the alarm goes off. My little sibling, who wears a headscarf, was recently subject to a secondary pat down. She was asked to put her hands on her head, while the TSA agent patted her down. Her hands were then “swabbed” (because she touched her headscarf with them). My sister, who is in her last year of law school, asked the Agent why she was being subjected to this. The agent simply said: “because you are wearing bulky clothing.” My sister was wearing a light summer tunic with a pair of fitted jeans.

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By: A Concerned Sikh http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/08/25/working_for_the/comment-page-2/#comment-164471 A Concerned Sikh Fri, 07 Sep 2007 18:42:22 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4683#comment-164471 <p>TSA should also include the following items to be patted down removed and searched as the wearer can cause issues if they smuggle any chemical bombs in them..... <b>(1) Underwears</b> <b>(2) Bras</b> <b>(3) Baggy Jeans</b> <b>(4) Loose Fitting dress - may it be any - shirt, pant, underdress.</b></p> <p><b>Then I will say TSA is not biased, until then it's just causing an unnecessary stir in the Sikh community and brining Americans who are illiterate about Sikhism closer to being more hateful about us - <u><i>The only turban wearers in the West.....</i></u></b></p> TSA should also include the following items to be patted down removed and searched as the wearer can cause issues if they smuggle any chemical bombs in them….. (1) Underwears (2) Bras (3) Baggy Jeans (4) Loose Fitting dress – may it be any – shirt, pant, underdress.

Then I will say TSA is not biased, until then it’s just causing an unnecessary stir in the Sikh community and brining Americans who are illiterate about Sikhism closer to being more hateful about us – The only turban wearers in the West…..

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By: ce blast http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/08/25/working_for_the/comment-page-2/#comment-163605 ce blast Mon, 03 Sep 2007 02:05:23 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4683#comment-163605 <blockquote>the key word is "discretionary." the pat downs you speak of are random. the new TSA policy allows discretionary (and seemingly recommended) searches precipitated on head coverings, namely the turban.</blockquote> <p>I don't know if i agree with you on that reading. If they said that the method by which the screeners would choose specific people was discretionary or that head covering searches are allowed at a screener's discretion than yeah, it would probably suggest some type of profiling if a particular screener felt any person with a head covering deserved to be searched (whats unfortunately inevitable is that regardless of policy, some screeners will do this anyway). However, at least in the excerpts referred to in this post, the term discretion doesn't apply in those ways. The first mention <b>But now security will have greater discretion to inspect turbans so that they can be manually checked for objects such as non-metallic weapons.</b> suggests that security will now have the ability to inspect turbans through different physical methods as opposed to just taking one off and unraveling. Its why its followed directly by the non matellic weapons bit and is preceded by the methods which were allowed previously.</p> <p>The second reference also seems to be a physical as opposed to profiling reference: <b>Despite the fact that the TSA guidance lists turbans as an example of headwear that can be the subject of secondary screening, a TSA screener is not required to conduct secondary screening of a turban. The screener can use his or her discretion to determine whether he/she believes the turban could conceal a non-metallic threat item.</b> Here the TSA asks the screener to judge whether a partiular turban could physically conceal a non metallic threat item---its why they refer to a singular turban and is even prefaced by the bit that says the turban doesn't have to be subject to secondary screening. One reason why the kippah may be exempt is because the TSA may believe (as they also seem to suggest about some turbans from this sentence) that they physically cannot hide a dangerous non metallic threat. This is justifiable difference, but a very, very poor one because anyone with familiarity in the area can tell you that a non metal explosive that would be very dangerous can definitely be hid under some kippahs.</p> the key word is “discretionary.” the pat downs you speak of are random. the new TSA policy allows discretionary (and seemingly recommended) searches precipitated on head coverings, namely the turban.

I don’t know if i agree with you on that reading. If they said that the method by which the screeners would choose specific people was discretionary or that head covering searches are allowed at a screener’s discretion than yeah, it would probably suggest some type of profiling if a particular screener felt any person with a head covering deserved to be searched (whats unfortunately inevitable is that regardless of policy, some screeners will do this anyway). However, at least in the excerpts referred to in this post, the term discretion doesn’t apply in those ways. The first mention But now security will have greater discretion to inspect turbans so that they can be manually checked for objects such as non-metallic weapons. suggests that security will now have the ability to inspect turbans through different physical methods as opposed to just taking one off and unraveling. Its why its followed directly by the non matellic weapons bit and is preceded by the methods which were allowed previously.

The second reference also seems to be a physical as opposed to profiling reference: Despite the fact that the TSA guidance lists turbans as an example of headwear that can be the subject of secondary screening, a TSA screener is not required to conduct secondary screening of a turban. The screener can use his or her discretion to determine whether he/she believes the turban could conceal a non-metallic threat item. Here the TSA asks the screener to judge whether a partiular turban could physically conceal a non metallic threat item—its why they refer to a singular turban and is even prefaced by the bit that says the turban doesn’t have to be subject to secondary screening. One reason why the kippah may be exempt is because the TSA may believe (as they also seem to suggest about some turbans from this sentence) that they physically cannot hide a dangerous non metallic threat. This is justifiable difference, but a very, very poor one because anyone with familiarity in the area can tell you that a non metal explosive that would be very dangerous can definitely be hid under some kippahs.

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By: Ennis http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/08/25/working_for_the/comment-page-2/#comment-163541 Ennis Sat, 01 Sep 2007 19:38:27 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4683#comment-163541 <p>Pat down is not great, but a whole take this off routine ... <i>shudder</i>. I'll leave my job and move elsewhere where I don't need to fly if that's the case ....</p> Pat down is not great, but a whole take this off routine … shudder. I’ll leave my job and move elsewhere where I don’t need to fly if that’s the case ….

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By: Amardeep http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/08/25/working_for_the/comment-page-2/#comment-163274 Amardeep Fri, 31 Aug 2007 14:15:44 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4683#comment-163274 <p>Amina, thanks for sharing that -- it changes my perception of the new rules somewhat. (I still don't like them.)</p> Amina, thanks for sharing that — it changes my perception of the new rules somewhat. (I still don’t like them.)

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By: Bhavjeet SS http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/08/25/working_for_the/comment-page-2/#comment-163267 Bhavjeet SS Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:14:20 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4683#comment-163267 <p>Sorry, but I'll be damned if I'm subjecting myself to a pat-down. Their hands have no business on my turban. If they deem it necessary, I'll gladly unroll it and expose my kesh for their eyes, but I'll most likely wind up in the pokey if they lay finger one on my pag.</p> Sorry, but I’ll be damned if I’m subjecting myself to a pat-down. Their hands have no business on my turban. If they deem it necessary, I’ll gladly unroll it and expose my kesh for their eyes, but I’ll most likely wind up in the pokey if they lay finger one on my pag.

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By: Amina http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/08/25/working_for_the/comment-page-2/#comment-163247 Amina Fri, 31 Aug 2007 06:50:11 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4683#comment-163247 <p>So, I just flew home to Newark from SFO and totally got the hijab pat down...</p> So, I just flew home to Newark from SFO and totally got the hijab pat down…

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By: Jman http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/08/25/working_for_the/comment-page-2/#comment-163162 Jman Thu, 30 Aug 2007 22:06:24 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4683#comment-163162 <p>As a caucasion Sikh, I can assure you this policy is not limited to brown people... though I do believe it is clearly targed towards Sikhs... based on a perception of being 'terrorists." I've flown 3 times in the last 2 weeks... and EACH time... I was patted down. Also... each time.. I didn't set off any alarms. So.. if it's 'discretionary' by the TSA agent.. .then I'd say the overriding state of discretion is to pat down Sikh turbans no matter. While it 'is' possible to hide something I spose in a turban... or in a 'fake hair knot' beneath the fabric... it is also ENTIRELY possible to hide MUCH more inside the bra of fake or real breasts. This policy has no reason other than to harrass non-'normal' people. There's a large black comedienne who does a shtick complaining about the price of drinks in bars... by the time she's done.. she's pulled a cup, ice, pint of vodka and a gallon of OJ out of her bra. TSA is fueling the politics of fear among the public, and I look forward to a constitutional challenge to this policy.</p> As a caucasion Sikh, I can assure you this policy is not limited to brown people… though I do believe it is clearly targed towards Sikhs… based on a perception of being ‘terrorists.” I’ve flown 3 times in the last 2 weeks… and EACH time… I was patted down. Also… each time.. I didn’t set off any alarms. So.. if it’s ‘discretionary’ by the TSA agent.. .then I’d say the overriding state of discretion is to pat down Sikh turbans no matter. While it ‘is’ possible to hide something I spose in a turban… or in a ‘fake hair knot’ beneath the fabric… it is also ENTIRELY possible to hide MUCH more inside the bra of fake or real breasts. This policy has no reason other than to harrass non-’normal’ people. There’s a large black comedienne who does a shtick complaining about the price of drinks in bars… by the time she’s done.. she’s pulled a cup, ice, pint of vodka and a gallon of OJ out of her bra. TSA is fueling the politics of fear among the public, and I look forward to a constitutional challenge to this policy.

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By: sizzle http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/08/25/working_for_the/comment-page-2/#comment-162850 sizzle Wed, 29 Aug 2007 21:45:46 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4683#comment-162850 <p>ce blast:</p> <p>in re: your comment 54.</p> <p>the key word is "discretionary." the pat downs you speak of are random. the new TSA policy allows discretionary (and seemingly recommended) searches precipitated on head coverings, namely the turban.</p> ce blast:

in re: your comment 54.

the key word is “discretionary.” the pat downs you speak of are random. the new TSA policy allows discretionary (and seemingly recommended) searches precipitated on head coverings, namely the turban.

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By: Ennis http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/08/25/working_for_the/comment-page-2/#comment-162650 Ennis Tue, 28 Aug 2007 23:39:06 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4683#comment-162650 <blockquote>ennis, check my first couple sentences in 17. wipe tests and puffer and other TEDDs are not effective with many explosives</blockquote> <p>But if they're truly worried, then shouldn't they be doing large scale and random strip to your underwear searches then?</p> ennis, check my first couple sentences in 17. wipe tests and puffer and other TEDDs are not effective with many explosives

But if they’re truly worried, then shouldn’t they be doing large scale and random strip to your underwear searches then?

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