Comments on: The Greatest Living American? http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/24/the_greatest_li/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: JP http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/24/the_greatest_li/comment-page-1/#comment-217409 JP Sat, 04 Oct 2008 02:10:25 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4596#comment-217409 <p>Norman Borlaug is still known in farm-country Iowa and in the Midwest. He had done wonders for India. Many you deshis are young and come from middle class or upper middle class families. I have seen and gone through some thing called "hunger". In Orissa, my worst day was seeing a tribal laborer eating soaked rice (leftover rice plus water)in a field in Angul district without salt. He had some raw paddy seeds next to the bowl and was trying to take the rice close to his mouth and then putting back on the ground. I asked him why is he doing that? His answer - he did not have salt at home and did not have money to buy. In his mind, he was thinking the raw rice was salt and then he was trying to swallow the soaked rice. In the Orissa famine of 1866 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orissa_famine_of_1866), close to 5 million people died.</p> <p>The most vulnerable months are July-September in rural Orissa where marginal farmers, who do not normally work as field hands due to their caste system, get close to starvation. The previous years rice paddy is nearly depleted in stock and the new crop is ready. Still the starvation persists (although in a limited scale -- http://www.indiatogether.org/2008/jul/pov-starve.htm). Introduction of hybrids in the coastal belt of Orissa and in the canal command areas of Hirakud Dam in western Orissa helped a lot in food production.</p> <p>R.N. Tagore was also a great lover of agriculture (much before Dr. Borlaug). He came twice to the University of Illinois where his son was studying. Amardeep had an article on this blog earlier about Tagore:</p> <p>http://www.lehigh.edu/~amsp/2005/07/tagore-in-america-sepia-mutiny-guest.html</p> Norman Borlaug is still known in farm-country Iowa and in the Midwest. He had done wonders for India. Many you deshis are young and come from middle class or upper middle class families. I have seen and gone through some thing called “hunger”. In Orissa, my worst day was seeing a tribal laborer eating soaked rice (leftover rice plus water)in a field in Angul district without salt. He had some raw paddy seeds next to the bowl and was trying to take the rice close to his mouth and then putting back on the ground. I asked him why is he doing that? His answer – he did not have salt at home and did not have money to buy. In his mind, he was thinking the raw rice was salt and then he was trying to swallow the soaked rice. In the Orissa famine of 1866 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orissa_famine_of_1866), close to 5 million people died.

The most vulnerable months are July-September in rural Orissa where marginal farmers, who do not normally work as field hands due to their caste system, get close to starvation. The previous years rice paddy is nearly depleted in stock and the new crop is ready. Still the starvation persists (although in a limited scale — http://www.indiatogether.org/2008/jul/pov-starve.htm). Introduction of hybrids in the coastal belt of Orissa and in the canal command areas of Hirakud Dam in western Orissa helped a lot in food production.

R.N. Tagore was also a great lover of agriculture (much before Dr. Borlaug). He came twice to the University of Illinois where his son was studying. Amardeep had an article on this blog earlier about Tagore:

http://www.lehigh.edu/~amsp/2005/07/tagore-in-america-sepia-mutiny-guest.html

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By: melbourne desi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/24/the_greatest_li/comment-page-1/#comment-154454 melbourne desi Wed, 01 Aug 2007 06:28:40 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4596#comment-154454 <p>The world bank is populated by overpaid bureaucrats whose only interests are to propagate their hegemony . Corrupt jerks of the worst kind. (eeks I sound like a Republican!!). The policies that the World Bank and the IMF foster upon the developing world cause more famines than the ideas of the loony left. Please read my post properly - I used corn syrup as a substitute for any food - not literally corn syrup.</p> <p>I am well aware of Cuba and its organic farming experience. Have you been to Cuba recently ? Will you migrate there? I dont think the world is tearing down the walls of cuba. Last time I heard the cubans were fighting to get out.If you think that the Cuban experience can be replicated in India, you are sadly mistaken.</p> <p>I dont mean to be rude but given that you have very limited understanding of agriculture nor any first hand knowledge, this discussion is going nowhere. Feed a million people in the developing world with your farming philosophy and then we can talk :)</p> <p>Cheers and am out of here.</p> The world bank is populated by overpaid bureaucrats whose only interests are to propagate their hegemony . Corrupt jerks of the worst kind. (eeks I sound like a Republican!!). The policies that the World Bank and the IMF foster upon the developing world cause more famines than the ideas of the loony left. Please read my post properly – I used corn syrup as a substitute for any food – not literally corn syrup.

I am well aware of Cuba and its organic farming experience. Have you been to Cuba recently ? Will you migrate there? I dont think the world is tearing down the walls of cuba. Last time I heard the cubans were fighting to get out.If you think that the Cuban experience can be replicated in India, you are sadly mistaken.

I dont mean to be rude but given that you have very limited understanding of agriculture nor any first hand knowledge, this discussion is going nowhere. Feed a million people in the developing world with your farming philosophy and then we can talk :)

Cheers and am out of here.

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By: Harbeer http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/24/the_greatest_li/comment-page-1/#comment-154371 Harbeer Tue, 31 Jul 2007 23:52:32 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4596#comment-154371 <p>melbourne desi @ 44 said:</p> <blockquote>Mate, you are pretty clueless.</blockquote> <p>What part of even the World Bank and UNICEF are critical of the Green Revolution do you not understand? Are you saying that the experts and scientists at the World Bank and UNICEF are clueless?</p> <p>Buy now, pay later.</p> <blockquote>Millions of Indians would gladly have corn syrup if it meant that they could fight hunger.</blockquote> <p>You make it sound as if corn syrup is the only alternative to hunger. It's not. Check out the Cuban example (assuming you are actually interested in this topic and not just in "being right.")</p> <p><b>Sarah</b>--I have not read The Omnivore's Dilemma, but it sounds interesting. I've read some of Michael Pollan's articles in the NYT Magazine and tried to interview him for a radio show I work on. He was, according to his publicist, "too busy."</p> melbourne desi @ 44 said:

Mate, you are pretty clueless.

What part of even the World Bank and UNICEF are critical of the Green Revolution do you not understand? Are you saying that the experts and scientists at the World Bank and UNICEF are clueless?

Buy now, pay later.

Millions of Indians would gladly have corn syrup if it meant that they could fight hunger.

You make it sound as if corn syrup is the only alternative to hunger. It’s not. Check out the Cuban example (assuming you are actually interested in this topic and not just in “being right.”)

Sarah–I have not read The Omnivore’s Dilemma, but it sounds interesting. I’ve read some of Michael Pollan’s articles in the NYT Magazine and tried to interview him for a radio show I work on. He was, according to his publicist, “too busy.”

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By: razib_the_atheist http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/24/the_greatest_li/comment-page-1/#comment-153244 razib_the_atheist Mon, 30 Jul 2007 04:02:52 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4596#comment-153244 <p>since i've added a lot of commentary to this thread i thought i might add some data. i checked who the patels have been marrying on <i>the new york times wedding pages</a>. here is what i found</p> <p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/27/fashion/weddings/27MADIA.html?ex=1185854400&en=13a368c4c4ef0837&ei=5070">Sonali Dalsukh Madia and Nimesh Naresh Patel</a> <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/08/fashion/weddings/08patel.html?ex=1185854400&en=7b08809c80d2c443&ei=5070">Shilpa Patel and Christopher Larson</a> (brown + white married by an episcopal priest in a hindu & christian themed ceremony) <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/04/fashion/weddings/04Pate.html?ex=1185854400&en=2e89e001039e3698&ei=5070">Mira Patel and Fayez Muhtadie</a> (hindu + muslim married in interfaith & hindu ceremony) <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/13/fashion/weddings/13malo.html?ex=1185854400&en=28fe8281722e6d39&ei=5070">Nell Maloney, Manish Patel</a> (hindu + white, catholic & hindu ceremony) <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/07/fashion/weddings/07PATE.html?ex=1185854400&en=cdc14396322426a1&ei=5070">Payal Patel and Ravi Chatani</a> <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/29/fashion/weddings/29JAIN.html?ex=1185854400&en=15b290874971ea12&ei=5070">Sandhya Jain and Samir Patel</a> <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/07/fashion/weddings/07PATE.html?ex=1185854400&en=36515b8341343b70&ei=5070">Sheevani Patel, Ruchir Raikundalia</a> <a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A04E3DE163EF931A1575BC0A9629C8B63">Sonal Patel, Sachin Chaudhry</a> <a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9800E7D71430F930A25755C0A9629C8B63">Bena Shah, Abhay Patel</a> <a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D07E1DB113FF930A35752C1A9649C8B63">Vinisha Patel, Saurabh Shah</a> <a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9401E2D81331F936A2575AC0A9649C8B63">Shefali Patel, David Shusterman</a> (hindu + white, hindu & jewish ceremony) <a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9501EFDD133FF930A15755C0A9649C8B63">Lisa George, Sarit Patel</a> (hindu + white, catholic & hindu ceremonies) <a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9802E7D6143DF931A35751C1A9679C8B63"> Vihas Patel, Tejas Patel</a> <a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9804E4D9133DF930A15752C0A9669C8B63">Hemalee Patel, Unmesh Kher</a> <a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A0DEED9103AF935A2575BC0A96E958260">Anil Patel and Clare Stephens</a> (hindu + white, catholic & hindu ceremony) <a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F00EEDA143AF933A05752C1A961958260">Sheila Patel, Steven Benfield</a> (half-brown + white, catholic ceremony) <a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE4D8163BF932A25753C1A964958260">Vidisha Dehejia And Ashvin Patel</a> <a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE7D61430F937A25756C0A96F948260"> Sanjay Patel Wed To Leslie Dickey</a> (hindu + white, civil wedding) <a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950CE7D71039F934A25757C0A965948260"> Susan Patel to Marry R.M. Furlaud Jr.</a> (half-brown + white, wedding announcement) <a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE0D61538F933A15751C1A967948260"> Eric Patel Weds Catherine Miller</a> (brown/half-brown (?) + white, episcopal wedding)</p> <p>i saw no patterns of fuglytude. the photographed pairs seemed to be "matched" no matter the race combination.</p> since i’ve added a lot of commentary to this thread i thought i might add some data. i checked who the patels have been marrying on the new york times wedding pages. here is what i found

Sonali Dalsukh Madia and Nimesh Naresh Patel Shilpa Patel and Christopher Larson (brown + white married by an episcopal priest in a hindu & christian themed ceremony) Mira Patel and Fayez Muhtadie (hindu + muslim married in interfaith & hindu ceremony) Nell Maloney, Manish Patel (hindu + white, catholic & hindu ceremony) Payal Patel and Ravi Chatani Sandhya Jain and Samir Patel Sheevani Patel, Ruchir Raikundalia Sonal Patel, Sachin Chaudhry Bena Shah, Abhay Patel Vinisha Patel, Saurabh Shah Shefali Patel, David Shusterman (hindu + white, hindu & jewish ceremony) Lisa George, Sarit Patel (hindu + white, catholic & hindu ceremonies) Vihas Patel, Tejas Patel Hemalee Patel, Unmesh Kher Anil Patel and Clare Stephens (hindu + white, catholic & hindu ceremony) Sheila Patel, Steven Benfield (half-brown + white, catholic ceremony) Vidisha Dehejia And Ashvin Patel Sanjay Patel Wed To Leslie Dickey (hindu + white, civil wedding) Susan Patel to Marry R.M. Furlaud Jr. (half-brown + white, wedding announcement) Eric Patel Weds Catherine Miller (brown/half-brown (?) + white, episcopal wedding)

i saw no patterns of fuglytude. the photographed pairs seemed to be “matched” no matter the race combination.

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By: melbourne desi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/24/the_greatest_li/comment-page-1/#comment-153240 melbourne desi Mon, 30 Jul 2007 03:46:56 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4596#comment-153240 <p>Harbeer - Justice ? Get a hungry person to choose between food / justice. Millions of people have land in India - how many have full stomachs? Mate, you are pretty clueless. Further, do you know what it means to be hungry and not have the option of even eating a $1 McD meal? A life where you get to eat one meal every two days. I suspect from your comments that your experience of agriculture especially in India is rather limited. Do you know how hard it is to produce food for one family ? Do you understand that the vagaries of nature make the concept of "feast/famine" more than just a concept. Have you ever looked up at the sky and prayed for rain (for months). If you have undergone these travails pray share your thoughts on how to alleviate the misery. Millions of Indians would gladly have corn syrup if it meant that they could fight hunger.</p> <p>Borlaug along with Swaminathan enabled millions of Indians to eat, so is it any wonder that they are treated like demi-gods.</p> <p>Vandana Shiva articulates many concerns very well but again she is someone who has never gone hungry in her life. So kinda hard to be advocating a position that creates hunger. I agree with her on disallowing patents for plant varieties - that is bound to destroy indian agriculture.</p> Harbeer – Justice ? Get a hungry person to choose between food / justice. Millions of people have land in India – how many have full stomachs? Mate, you are pretty clueless. Further, do you know what it means to be hungry and not have the option of even eating a $1 McD meal? A life where you get to eat one meal every two days. I suspect from your comments that your experience of agriculture especially in India is rather limited. Do you know how hard it is to produce food for one family ? Do you understand that the vagaries of nature make the concept of “feast/famine” more than just a concept. Have you ever looked up at the sky and prayed for rain (for months). If you have undergone these travails pray share your thoughts on how to alleviate the misery. Millions of Indians would gladly have corn syrup if it meant that they could fight hunger.

Borlaug along with Swaminathan enabled millions of Indians to eat, so is it any wonder that they are treated like demi-gods.

Vandana Shiva articulates many concerns very well but again she is someone who has never gone hungry in her life. So kinda hard to be advocating a position that creates hunger. I agree with her on disallowing patents for plant varieties – that is bound to destroy indian agriculture.

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By: sarah http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/24/the_greatest_li/comment-page-1/#comment-152649 sarah Fri, 27 Jul 2007 23:59:48 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4596#comment-152649 <p>Thanks, Harbeer! Printing the article to take on my weekend trip...</p> <blockquote> <p>Give a hungry person justice and they can make their own choices. Why are the only options in your scenario limited to hunger or corn syrup? Enough with the dualism and false dichotomies, sheesh! Try imagining possibilities beyond A and B. What if the hungry person is given a vacant plot of land where s/he can raise food to be both healthy AND well fed?<</p> </blockquote> <p>I'm totally with you on this... BUT, if we're talking about the US working class (as in #26 and #27) hunger vs. corn syrup is pretty much the reality on the ground. When I was 18 and working three jobs, the only thing I could afford was the '2 burgers for $2' special at Burger King, which I'm sure wasn't so good for my health! But I get the feeling you have probably already read <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Omnivores-Dilemma-Natural-History-Meals/dp/0143038583/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-9475312-0302348?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1185573160&sr=8-1">'The Omnivore's Dilemma'</a>. (Melbourne Desi, if you haven't checked it out, I highly recommend it-- it's US-centered but gives an idea of just why the poor in the US are fat.)</p> <p>That said, there are a few alternatives starting to pop up in urban spaces-- my neighborhood in Philadelphia has the <a href="http://www.thefoodtrust.org/">Food Trust</a>, which is beginning to open up farmer's markets in poor urban areas where people don't have access to fresh produce. But such programs are few and far between.</p> <blockquote> <p>Certain opinions propounded by Vandana Shiva make enormous sense but on the whole the "truth" from the green left is the stuff that comes out of the mouths of people who have never known the pangs of hunger. <</p> </blockquote> <p>I don't think many of the policy wonks at the World Bank and IMF or the massive international agribusiness companies have lived through famines either. Does that fact alone automatically discredit either side? Seems a bit <i>ad hominem </i>to me.</p> Thanks, Harbeer! Printing the article to take on my weekend trip…

Give a hungry person justice and they can make their own choices. Why are the only options in your scenario limited to hunger or corn syrup? Enough with the dualism and false dichotomies, sheesh! Try imagining possibilities beyond A and B. What if the hungry person is given a vacant plot of land where s/he can raise food to be both healthy AND well fed?<

I’m totally with you on this… BUT, if we’re talking about the US working class (as in #26 and #27) hunger vs. corn syrup is pretty much the reality on the ground. When I was 18 and working three jobs, the only thing I could afford was the ’2 burgers for $2′ special at Burger King, which I’m sure wasn’t so good for my health! But I get the feeling you have probably already read ‘The Omnivore’s Dilemma’. (Melbourne Desi, if you haven’t checked it out, I highly recommend it– it’s US-centered but gives an idea of just why the poor in the US are fat.)

That said, there are a few alternatives starting to pop up in urban spaces– my neighborhood in Philadelphia has the Food Trust, which is beginning to open up farmer’s markets in poor urban areas where people don’t have access to fresh produce. But such programs are few and far between.

Certain opinions propounded by Vandana Shiva make enormous sense but on the whole the “truth” from the green left is the stuff that comes out of the mouths of people who have never known the pangs of hunger. <

I don’t think many of the policy wonks at the World Bank and IMF or the massive international agribusiness companies have lived through famines either. Does that fact alone automatically discredit either side? Seems a bit ad hominem to me.

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By: Harbeer http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/24/the_greatest_li/comment-page-1/#comment-152471 Harbeer Fri, 27 Jul 2007 04:15:58 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4596#comment-152471 <p><b>Melbourne Desi</b> @ 38 said:</p> <blockquote>Give a hungry person the choice between being fat with unhealthy food and being hungry with healthy food and 10/10 times the person will choose being fat.</blockquote> <p>Give a hungry person justice and they can make their own choices. Why are the only options in your scenario limited to hunger or corn syrup? Enough with the dualism and false dichotomies, sheesh! Try imagining possibilities beyond A and B. What if the hungry person is given a vacant plot of land where s/he can raise food to be both healthy AND well fed?</p> <p>I'm glad you liked the Vandana Shiva excerpt, <b>Sarah</b>. I think it was written in 1989 and conditions have only gotten worse since then. Check out the <a href="http://www.harpers.org/archive/2005/04/0080501">Harper's article</a> if you get a chance, too. It's all about what farming might look like in the future when we run out of petroleum, etc.</p> <p><b>Ria</b> @ 37:</p> <p>You are probably right about Borlaug's good intentions, but "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." Also, if you read the Vandana Shiva article I linked to above, you'll see that the intentions of the Ford and Rockefeller Foundations (who funded much of his work) were not among the noblest. <a href="http://www.foodfirst.org/media/opeds/2000/4-greenrev.html"> Here is another great article</a> on the topic of hunger and technology:</p> <blockquote>Narrowly focusing on increasing production-as the Green Revolution does-cannot alleviate hunger because it fails to alter the tightly concentrated distribution of economic power, especially access to land and purchasing power. Even the World Bank concluded in a major 1986 study of world hunger that a rapid increase in food production does not necessarily result in food security-that is, less hunger. Current hunger can only be alleviated by "redistributing purchasing power and resources toward those who are undernourished," the study said. In a nutshell-if the poor don't have the money to buy food, increased production is not going to help them.</blockquote> Melbourne Desi @ 38 said:

Give a hungry person the choice between being fat with unhealthy food and being hungry with healthy food and 10/10 times the person will choose being fat.

Give a hungry person justice and they can make their own choices. Why are the only options in your scenario limited to hunger or corn syrup? Enough with the dualism and false dichotomies, sheesh! Try imagining possibilities beyond A and B. What if the hungry person is given a vacant plot of land where s/he can raise food to be both healthy AND well fed?

I’m glad you liked the Vandana Shiva excerpt, Sarah. I think it was written in 1989 and conditions have only gotten worse since then. Check out the Harper’s article if you get a chance, too. It’s all about what farming might look like in the future when we run out of petroleum, etc.

Ria @ 37:

You are probably right about Borlaug’s good intentions, but “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.” Also, if you read the Vandana Shiva article I linked to above, you’ll see that the intentions of the Ford and Rockefeller Foundations (who funded much of his work) were not among the noblest. Here is another great article on the topic of hunger and technology:

Narrowly focusing on increasing production-as the Green Revolution does-cannot alleviate hunger because it fails to alter the tightly concentrated distribution of economic power, especially access to land and purchasing power. Even the World Bank concluded in a major 1986 study of world hunger that a rapid increase in food production does not necessarily result in food security-that is, less hunger. Current hunger can only be alleviated by “redistributing purchasing power and resources toward those who are undernourished,” the study said. In a nutshell-if the poor don’t have the money to buy food, increased production is not going to help them.
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By: melbourne desi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/24/the_greatest_li/comment-page-1/#comment-152267 melbourne desi Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:00:45 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4596#comment-152267 <p>Yes. I have talked to them. My grandparents were subsistence farmers who sold and migrated to the city. So I am quite aware of the travails of subsistence farming. Several of my distant uncles continue to farm and wont sell the farm till they die. However, the children wont have any qualms. Incidentally, the land has become quite valuable real estate now!</p> <p>My grouse with the environmental do-gooders is that the preachers far outnumber the doers. It is not about feeding the poor, it is about feeding oneself. A conversation about the poor is easy, a conversation about feeding ones family is a whole differnt story. Most 'do-gooders' have no clue about large scale agriculture or the fickle nature of growing food.</p> <p>Wonder how many green activists have lived through a famine and suffered the pangs of hunger?</p> <p>Having said all of the above I believe that the world has enough for everyones need but not enough for even one persons greed. What is need and what is greed is debatabale.</p> Yes. I have talked to them. My grandparents were subsistence farmers who sold and migrated to the city. So I am quite aware of the travails of subsistence farming. Several of my distant uncles continue to farm and wont sell the farm till they die. However, the children wont have any qualms. Incidentally, the land has become quite valuable real estate now!

My grouse with the environmental do-gooders is that the preachers far outnumber the doers. It is not about feeding the poor, it is about feeding oneself. A conversation about the poor is easy, a conversation about feeding ones family is a whole differnt story. Most ‘do-gooders’ have no clue about large scale agriculture or the fickle nature of growing food.

Wonder how many green activists have lived through a famine and suffered the pangs of hunger?

Having said all of the above I believe that the world has enough for everyones need but not enough for even one persons greed. What is need and what is greed is debatabale.

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By: sarah http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/24/the_greatest_li/comment-page-1/#comment-152249 sarah Thu, 26 Jul 2007 05:38:52 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4596#comment-152249 <blockquote> <p>The arguments about ecology is possible when one's belly is full. Otherwise it is just 'gas'. <</p> </blockquote> <p>You juxtapose the two as if the environment has nothing to do with filling bellies... as if the choice is between 'save the earth' and 'feed the poor'. It's a false dichotomy that tends to get promoted by corporate ideologues who have everything to gain by pretending that what they are doing feeds the poor (not that that's what you are, just that this is where such talking points come from).</p> <p>Part of the problem with the Green Revolution (thanks for the Vandana Shiva link, btw, Harbeer!) is that it focused production on cash crops for export-- thus forcing farmers to fill foreign bellies rather than their own.</p> <p>It also allowed US chemical companies like Dow to use India as a testing ground for unproven chemical products, without nearly as many environmental and safety regulations. Ask the people of Bhopal how grateful they are for that.</p>

The arguments about ecology is possible when one’s belly is full. Otherwise it is just ‘gas’. <

You juxtapose the two as if the environment has nothing to do with filling bellies… as if the choice is between ‘save the earth’ and ‘feed the poor’. It’s a false dichotomy that tends to get promoted by corporate ideologues who have everything to gain by pretending that what they are doing feeds the poor (not that that’s what you are, just that this is where such talking points come from).

Part of the problem with the Green Revolution (thanks for the Vandana Shiva link, btw, Harbeer!) is that it focused production on cash crops for export– thus forcing farmers to fill foreign bellies rather than their own.

It also allowed US chemical companies like Dow to use India as a testing ground for unproven chemical products, without nearly as many environmental and safety regulations. Ask the people of Bhopal how grateful they are for that.

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By: ria http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/24/the_greatest_li/comment-page-1/#comment-152236 ria Thu, 26 Jul 2007 04:04:20 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4596#comment-152236 <blockquote>Farming in India is subsistence - in most cases not economical. Many subsistence farmers find it better to sell the land and migrate to the cities so that their belly is full.</blockquote> <p>Really?? Have you talked to them? I have. And most people consider it very insulting to do a job, to work under someone else. They'll keep trying, take loans after loans, but won't ever even consider selling their land. Thats their life, the only way of life they know.</p> Farming in India is subsistence – in most cases not economical. Many subsistence farmers find it better to sell the land and migrate to the cities so that their belly is full.

Really?? Have you talked to them? I have. And most people consider it very insulting to do a job, to work under someone else. They’ll keep trying, take loans after loans, but won’t ever even consider selling their land. Thats their life, the only way of life they know.

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