Comments on: On Respect for our Elders http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/24/on_respect_for/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Valmiki http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/24/on_respect_for/comment-page-3/#comment-206874 Valmiki Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:21:49 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4595#comment-206874 <p>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7421706.stm</p> <p>"India's elderly face growing neglect</p> <p>There has been a steady rise recently in reports of cases of elderly being abused, harassed and abandoned in India.</p> <p>There are more than 70 million senior citizens in India and the figure is set to grow to well over a 100 million in the next 25 years. Consequently, the number of old age homes is growing dramatically.</p> <p>"At HelpAge India, 30 years ago when we started supporting old age homes, everybody said this was a Western concept. Today everybody accepts this is not a Western concept, this is the reality."</p> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7421706.stm

“India’s elderly face growing neglect

There has been a steady rise recently in reports of cases of elderly being abused, harassed and abandoned in India.

There are more than 70 million senior citizens in India and the figure is set to grow to well over a 100 million in the next 25 years. Consequently, the number of old age homes is growing dramatically.

“At HelpAge India, 30 years ago when we started supporting old age homes, everybody said this was a Western concept. Today everybody accepts this is not a Western concept, this is the reality.”

]]> By: Last of the Moccasins http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/24/on_respect_for/comment-page-3/#comment-198471 Last of the Moccasins Tue, 01 Apr 2008 20:07:16 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4595#comment-198471 <p>It never fails to amaze me how people will deny that certain attitudes or practices exist in their culture. Religion for the most part reflects the society that created it and therefore takes into account all that is good about it and promotes it. The same religion will for the most part abhor those views that do not share the same ideology. Religion is also a cultural bastion that promotes all manner of conventions that are not necessarily tied to religion but understands the rights of its people and puts into code the convention that all human life should be respected, revered and protected. Yet, the failure of "Humanity" in all cultures irregardless of their beliefs will steadfastly deny that their culture would ever commit to such heinous crimes like throwing relatives on garbage dumps or burying alive defenseless babies. Governments, communities, groups of people and individuals from all over the human spectrum have all committed heinous crimes against their own beliefs and ideology but do so in the name of those beliefs. The disrespect that people have for the rights of others and therefore life is unfathomable to me. It should be noted that conditions drive people to commit heinous acts in the name of their ideology and surprisingly have supporters, this inspite of the conflict of their religious tennets. It is sad but true that in all cultures certain acts and behavior get tolerated over time that somehow subvert the beliefs as coming from their religious beliefs and therefore it is okay. These same people who would promote hatred subvert their beliefs into dogmatic propaganda as being the only right one and everything else is wrong. No Religion tolerates the abuse of human life or disrespect of life nor condemns the differances of other people. Religion only condemns other religions whose beliefs are different from theirs but not their respect for the common beliefs of humanity. The old woman on the garbage dump did not deserve to be there even if she had been a woman who may or not cause misery in her life. This woman spent a least nine months of her life each time to bring into this world, sons and daughters and then cared for them at the expense of her own ambitions. It is only for a short while longer that we as siblings can take some time to thank our mothers for for their sacrafices by taking care of them each in turn until such time they leave this world. It is bad enough that we all suffer the stresses from life, but to deny others the small priviledge of living out their lives in relative comfort is a travesty on the beliefs founded by all cultures and religions. I am an Indian of a very different sort. My people do not have a structured religious ideology but rather a spiritual belief in all living things both animate an inanimate. It does not mean that we are infallible, we are simply, as we say in our beliefs trying to live a good life. I wish all of you a good life and the road you walk to be long and true.</p> It never fails to amaze me how people will deny that certain attitudes or practices exist in their culture. Religion for the most part reflects the society that created it and therefore takes into account all that is good about it and promotes it. The same religion will for the most part abhor those views that do not share the same ideology. Religion is also a cultural bastion that promotes all manner of conventions that are not necessarily tied to religion but understands the rights of its people and puts into code the convention that all human life should be respected, revered and protected. Yet, the failure of “Humanity” in all cultures irregardless of their beliefs will steadfastly deny that their culture would ever commit to such heinous crimes like throwing relatives on garbage dumps or burying alive defenseless babies. Governments, communities, groups of people and individuals from all over the human spectrum have all committed heinous crimes against their own beliefs and ideology but do so in the name of those beliefs. The disrespect that people have for the rights of others and therefore life is unfathomable to me. It should be noted that conditions drive people to commit heinous acts in the name of their ideology and surprisingly have supporters, this inspite of the conflict of their religious tennets. It is sad but true that in all cultures certain acts and behavior get tolerated over time that somehow subvert the beliefs as coming from their religious beliefs and therefore it is okay. These same people who would promote hatred subvert their beliefs into dogmatic propaganda as being the only right one and everything else is wrong. No Religion tolerates the abuse of human life or disrespect of life nor condemns the differances of other people. Religion only condemns other religions whose beliefs are different from theirs but not their respect for the common beliefs of humanity. The old woman on the garbage dump did not deserve to be there even if she had been a woman who may or not cause misery in her life. This woman spent a least nine months of her life each time to bring into this world, sons and daughters and then cared for them at the expense of her own ambitions. It is only for a short while longer that we as siblings can take some time to thank our mothers for for their sacrafices by taking care of them each in turn until such time they leave this world. It is bad enough that we all suffer the stresses from life, but to deny others the small priviledge of living out their lives in relative comfort is a travesty on the beliefs founded by all cultures and religions. I am an Indian of a very different sort. My people do not have a structured religious ideology but rather a spiritual belief in all living things both animate an inanimate. It does not mean that we are infallible, we are simply, as we say in our beliefs trying to live a good life. I wish all of you a good life and the road you walk to be long and true.

]]> By: Kin http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/24/on_respect_for/comment-page-3/#comment-153195 Kin Mon, 30 Jul 2007 01:54:42 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4595#comment-153195 <p>The vulnerable are subject to abuse in every society, every ethnic group. No one ethnic group has cornered the market on the abuse of the elderly, children, and mentally-infirm. What goes around comes around...those who abuse the vulnerable will one day get theirs.</p> The vulnerable are subject to abuse in every society, every ethnic group. No one ethnic group has cornered the market on the abuse of the elderly, children, and mentally-infirm. What goes around comes around…those who abuse the vulnerable will one day get theirs.

]]> By: Pondatti http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/24/on_respect_for/comment-page-3/#comment-153041 Pondatti Sun, 29 Jul 2007 10:29:42 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4595#comment-153041 <blockquote>first of all...anna??? i'm desparetely hoping that thats the Tamil/Telugu slang for elder brother..and not the English Anna. Assuming u r the latter and not the former..why are you speaking anything bout Indian culture?</blockquote> <p>How stupid are you? If you were South Indian like you insinuate, you'd be more than aware that there are loads of Malayalee women named "Anna". Stop assuming things, for your own sake and ours. Also, can you read? She didn't call anyone "Ram", the person whom she quoted, did. You are illiterate and incoherent. Insult and blame the right people, if your hate-hard-on will allow some blood to rush back to your brain.</p> <blockquote>till next time... bye "Anna" </blockquote> <p>Oh, God, please don't let there be a next time. Bye "asshole".</p> first of all…anna??? i’m desparetely hoping that thats the Tamil/Telugu slang for elder brother..and not the English Anna. Assuming u r the latter and not the former..why are you speaking anything bout Indian culture?

How stupid are you? If you were South Indian like you insinuate, you’d be more than aware that there are loads of Malayalee women named “Anna”. Stop assuming things, for your own sake and ours. Also, can you read? She didn’t call anyone “Ram”, the person whom she quoted, did. You are illiterate and incoherent. Insult and blame the right people, if your hate-hard-on will allow some blood to rush back to your brain.

till next time… bye “Anna”

Oh, God, please don’t let there be a next time. Bye “asshole”.

]]> By: Jai http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/24/on_respect_for/comment-page-3/#comment-153028 Jai Sun, 29 Jul 2007 09:25:31 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4595#comment-153028 <p>btw...its Rama..not "Ram" you don't call Sita- "Sit" do you? get your shit 2gether.</p> btw…its Rama..not “Ram” you don’t call Sita- “Sit” do you? get your shit 2gether.

]]> By: Jai http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/24/on_respect_for/comment-page-3/#comment-153026 Jai Sun, 29 Jul 2007 09:20:36 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4595#comment-153026 <p>Anna... first of all...anna??? i'm desparetely hoping that thats the Tamil/Telugu slang for elder brother..and not the English Anna. Assuming u r the latter and not the former..why are you speaking anything bout Indian culture? (im all for shortening of names when white ppl. or ppl. who can't pronounce it are involved) obviously your 'respect' for it is so great that even in a website aimed at indians u assume a white man's name. Congrats. And here u r bsing about how our indian culture is so great, well if thats true..then...why is your name Anna? coming to the whole 'indian culture is so great' b.s...its really not. parents in their drive to instill upon their kids, the sense of pride and love of their culture they desperately want (becuase we're more traditional) seem to gloss over the bad part..which is just about every part.. dont get me wrong..im still an Indian...but woman being subservient to man? if i want a maid..i'll pay for one...ooh wait.. In india..our dowry system developed as a way to degrade and somehow institutionalize the concept of marriage...it still exists today..dont even begin to say that feminists are crazy or something..u've obviously lived the pampered life of a rich suburban American teen or something because u dont realize that to this day the MAJORITY of women in india dont face a choice. Its a "family" decision..which means just about every1 else's opinion counts except for hers. It boils down to the amount of money available,status,caste etc. thats the way life is..It seems to be reverse prostitution. The husband getting paid to get a maid and get laid..the only reason we have less of a divorce rate is because of social taboo and furthermore...theres not many options available for a woman 'job wise' if she were to be left on her and expected to support herself. as far as taking care of elders..HAHAH!! indians are the most conniving,hypocritical sons of B*tches i've ever known...and im one so i know how much so they are...its not that we wouldn't do it becuase of respect..but it was a social taboo...as cities get bigger more and more disjointed that old community structure is broken down. We now have ppl. don't care and dont know anything about each other so its easy. I suspect this will happen more and more.. till next time... bye "Anna"</p> Anna… first of all…anna??? i’m desparetely hoping that thats the Tamil/Telugu slang for elder brother..and not the English Anna. Assuming u r the latter and not the former..why are you speaking anything bout Indian culture? (im all for shortening of names when white ppl. or ppl. who can’t pronounce it are involved) obviously your ‘respect’ for it is so great that even in a website aimed at indians u assume a white man’s name. Congrats. And here u r bsing about how our indian culture is so great, well if thats true..then…why is your name Anna? coming to the whole ‘indian culture is so great’ b.s…its really not. parents in their drive to instill upon their kids, the sense of pride and love of their culture they desperately want (becuase we’re more traditional) seem to gloss over the bad part..which is just about every part.. dont get me wrong..im still an Indian…but woman being subservient to man? if i want a maid..i’ll pay for one…ooh wait.. In india..our dowry system developed as a way to degrade and somehow institutionalize the concept of marriage…it still exists today..dont even begin to say that feminists are crazy or something..u’ve obviously lived the pampered life of a rich suburban American teen or something because u dont realize that to this day the MAJORITY of women in india dont face a choice. Its a “family” decision..which means just about every1 else’s opinion counts except for hers. It boils down to the amount of money available,status,caste etc. thats the way life is..It seems to be reverse prostitution. The husband getting paid to get a maid and get laid..the only reason we have less of a divorce rate is because of social taboo and furthermore…theres not many options available for a woman ‘job wise’ if she were to be left on her and expected to support herself. as far as taking care of elders..HAHAH!! indians are the most conniving,hypocritical sons of B*tches i’ve ever known…and im one so i know how much so they are…its not that we wouldn’t do it becuase of respect..but it was a social taboo…as cities get bigger more and more disjointed that old community structure is broken down. We now have ppl. don’t care and dont know anything about each other so its easy. I suspect this will happen more and more.. till next time… bye “Anna”

]]> By: PPD http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/24/on_respect_for/comment-page-3/#comment-152494 PPD Fri, 27 Jul 2007 11:59:32 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4595#comment-152494 <p>I have seen many households where elders are living with family but they are loaded with much more work than maids and servants , from childcare to cleaning , cooking as most of the adult members of the house are full time working ...and if they have to go to other country then problem is much more as they cannot even go to neighbours / talk in their own language etc...so they prefer to live in India . In these kind of cases it is better to live in cared , safe place then living alone ( as especially in cities it is risky as well ).</p> <p>As far as Indian culture / tradition goes life is divided in 4 parts 1. brahmacharyashram ( get education ) 2. Grihsthashram ( get married and take responsibility of household ) 3. Sanyasahram ( give responsibilty to chidren and do not get involved unless suggestions are asked ) 4. Vanprasthashram ( leave house and go to forest or peaceful place to live your rest of the life unattached , with other people of similar age group )</p> <p>so I cannot say Old Age Home is western concept as such . Only difference is rather than children taking decide about elder's life ( where to live , what to do ) they themselves used to decide and generally kings ( collectively society ) do provide for the rishis / ashrams in forest to look after these elder folks . They were never Unwanted ....</p> <p>That does not say that I back any thought / act to make elders in family helpess and I myself will never do so . But I am surely going to plan my old age in some of these kinds of facilities .</p> <p>The main problem is parents have to keep paying for education of chidren and marriages of daughters so no way most of the people can save for old age and there is no government policy towards old people .</p> I have seen many households where elders are living with family but they are loaded with much more work than maids and servants , from childcare to cleaning , cooking as most of the adult members of the house are full time working …and if they have to go to other country then problem is much more as they cannot even go to neighbours / talk in their own language etc…so they prefer to live in India . In these kind of cases it is better to live in cared , safe place then living alone ( as especially in cities it is risky as well ).

As far as Indian culture / tradition goes life is divided in 4 parts 1. brahmacharyashram ( get education ) 2. Grihsthashram ( get married and take responsibility of household ) 3. Sanyasahram ( give responsibilty to chidren and do not get involved unless suggestions are asked ) 4. Vanprasthashram ( leave house and go to forest or peaceful place to live your rest of the life unattached , with other people of similar age group )

so I cannot say Old Age Home is western concept as such . Only difference is rather than children taking decide about elder’s life ( where to live , what to do ) they themselves used to decide and generally kings ( collectively society ) do provide for the rishis / ashrams in forest to look after these elder folks . They were never Unwanted ….

That does not say that I back any thought / act to make elders in family helpess and I myself will never do so . But I am surely going to plan my old age in some of these kinds of facilities .

The main problem is parents have to keep paying for education of chidren and marriages of daughters so no way most of the people can save for old age and there is no government policy towards old people .

]]> By: JOAT http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/24/on_respect_for/comment-page-3/#comment-152351 JOAT Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:14:35 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4595#comment-152351 <blockquote>So what recourse do we DBDs have? Can we get our aging parents here? How do we navigate the medical care? I am sure that my kids would love their grandmothers and grandfather to be here with them. Any advice would be greatly welcomed. I am seeing many others slightly older than me in similar situations. Too late to go back to India...</blockquote> <p>While going back to India isn't an option for me; I'm allowed at the least that selfish decision of living my life on my terms where I call home; asking my mother to move to this country so I could watch over her and take care of her isn't an option either. I've tried unsuccessfully for 5 years. I don't make the kind of $$ required to fill in for her driver, cook, maid, nurse or the kind of time and energy to make up for the emotional support she receives at home. It would be utterly selfish of me to expect her to live here so it's convenient to me because there will be nothing convenient nevermind happy about that situation.</p> <p>She continues to live in India, well cared but away from me and I continue to live my life here. I visit as much as I can and as much as I can financially afford. I spent 5 years of my life devoting every single vacation and every single summer to her and now that my life is going to change all I feel is fear. What will happen when I have my own family and children? How will I manage to devote any time to her? I also have aging inlaws I have to think about and be concerned about. I don't think there are any black white answers but we all have to do what is best for us. One person's solution can't always work for someone else.</p> <p>I have struggled with and made peace with the unfortunate decision that at some point she is going to need a 24 hour home and the amount of pressure and demands her ill health is making on her family members is simply not fair.</p> So what recourse do we DBDs have? Can we get our aging parents here? How do we navigate the medical care? I am sure that my kids would love their grandmothers and grandfather to be here with them. Any advice would be greatly welcomed. I am seeing many others slightly older than me in similar situations. Too late to go back to India…

While going back to India isn’t an option for me; I’m allowed at the least that selfish decision of living my life on my terms where I call home; asking my mother to move to this country so I could watch over her and take care of her isn’t an option either. I’ve tried unsuccessfully for 5 years. I don’t make the kind of $$ required to fill in for her driver, cook, maid, nurse or the kind of time and energy to make up for the emotional support she receives at home. It would be utterly selfish of me to expect her to live here so it’s convenient to me because there will be nothing convenient nevermind happy about that situation.

She continues to live in India, well cared but away from me and I continue to live my life here. I visit as much as I can and as much as I can financially afford. I spent 5 years of my life devoting every single vacation and every single summer to her and now that my life is going to change all I feel is fear. What will happen when I have my own family and children? How will I manage to devote any time to her? I also have aging inlaws I have to think about and be concerned about. I don’t think there are any black white answers but we all have to do what is best for us. One person’s solution can’t always work for someone else.

I have struggled with and made peace with the unfortunate decision that at some point she is going to need a 24 hour home and the amount of pressure and demands her ill health is making on her family members is simply not fair.

]]> By: pb http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/24/on_respect_for/comment-page-3/#comment-152346 pb Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:02:52 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4595#comment-152346 <p>How awful. I can't get over the fact that someone would actually do something like this. I mean how does the idea of throwing a person in the garbage even become an option? I guess the only way to make news like this mean something is if we don't stand for things like this in our own lives...and try to show as much love and respect to our elders as we possibly can. Seems like everyone here is talking about ways to do just that. Thanks for posting this, Anna - very important.</p> How awful. I can’t get over the fact that someone would actually do something like this. I mean how does the idea of throwing a person in the garbage even become an option? I guess the only way to make news like this mean something is if we don’t stand for things like this in our own lives…and try to show as much love and respect to our elders as we possibly can. Seems like everyone here is talking about ways to do just that. Thanks for posting this, Anna – very important.

]]> By: ABCDad http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2007/07/24/on_respect_for/comment-page-3/#comment-152337 ABCDad Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:43:19 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=4595#comment-152337 <p>These are wonderful topics. The topic of elder care is very important to those of us in our 30s (or older.) This topic and others on this forum are relevant to ABCDs and DBDs (a term I learned from this blog). We are all searching for answers to difficult questions. This forum is the only place I have ever found to gain insight from people grappling with similar issues. Let's try not to silence our peers. The comments/voices that you silence may help someone else in this community.</p> These are wonderful topics. The topic of elder care is very important to those of us in our 30s (or older.) This topic and others on this forum are relevant to ABCDs and DBDs (a term I learned from this blog). We are all searching for answers to difficult questions. This forum is the only place I have ever found to gain insight from people grappling with similar issues. Let’s try not to silence our peers. The comments/voices that you silence may help someone else in this community.

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